Trick Flow small block heads

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The last SBM bracket race motor I put together was several years ago.
416, Bowl blended RPM’s, easy on parts SFT, SV, 1-3/4” headers...... 561hp@6300.

Several years prior to that I had one on the dyno that I did the heads and cam for.......more head work, 1-7/8” headers, roller cam, Victor with adapter and 4500 carb......589hp.
Don’t recall where it peaked....... but was probably still in that 6300 range.

I wouldn’t expect to need to go more than 65-6700 to get one over the 600hp mark.

But......time will tell as more get built.
 
pittsburghracer said:
Why shift at 7500 when you don’t have to. My car has gone 9.42 shifting at 7000 and I lowered it to 6700 this year because the engine is on its 4th race season. Looks like I may have lost .01
But it’s hard to tell with the hot humid weather we have been having this year.
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RPM is power. If you gear the car and use RPM you'll go faster. 7000 is NOT a lot of RPM.
 
PRH said:
The last SBM bracket race motor I put together was several years ago.
416, Bowl blended RPM’s, easy on parts SFT, SV, 1-3/4” headers...... 561hp@6300.

Several years prior to that I had one on the dyno that I did the heads and cam for.......more head work, 1-7/8” headers, roller cam, Victor with adapter and 4500 carb......589hp.
Don’t recall where it peaked....... but was probably still in that 6300 range.

I wouldn’t expect to need to go more than 65-6700 to get one over the 600hp mark.

But......time will tell as more get built.
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Yeah, it may not take 7000, but the life difference between 6300 or 6500 and 7000 is virtually nothing. As I said above. You can run more gear. More RPM is more power. I just don't think 7000 for the parts we have today is even remotely hard on anything.
 
yellow rose said:
Only God knows how deep my hate for Indy runs. I know they are out there, but I hate their guts so bad I rather eat a bowl of **** than use their stuff. It is so labor intensive to fix it after you buy it it's just not worth it.
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Now now! You forgot all about there amazing customer support & phone line friendliness!!!!!
:rofl:
yellow rose said:
RPM is power. If you gear the car and use RPM you'll go faster. 7000 is NOT a lot of RPM.
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RPM is power unless it falls of like a rock. What would the point be if your making crap HP @ 7K?
 
rumblefish360 said:
Now now! You forgot all about there amazing customer support & phone line friendliness!!!!!
:rofl:

I didn't forget. I just didn't want to type it out and piss myself off on a Friday!

RPM is power unless it falls of like a rock. What would the point be if your making crap HP @ 7K?
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Well yeah, you have to be able to make power that high. Shouldn't be that hard.
 
yellow rose said:
Really? It's simple math. Do the math.
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No math needed if you do enough track testing. And trust me I have done a lot of track testing. When you do a budget build engine without all the bells and whistles high rpm does not pay dividends. My Sons 3200 pound combo is now running a 4.10 rear gear. My combo with a 14-32 and a 4.88 gear cannot even make a full quartermile pass without running out of usable rpm. We have a 1000 foot race later this year and I’m hoping I can make that.
 
pittsburghracer said:
No math needed if you do enough track testing. And trust me I have done a lot of track testing. When you do a budget build engine without all the bells and whistles high rpm does not pay dividends. My Sons 3200 pound combo is now running a 4.10 rear gear. My combo with a 14-32 and a 4.88 gear cannot even make a full quartermile pass without running out of usable rpm. We have a 1000 foot race later this year and I’m hoping I can make that.
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That doesn't change the math. Math is math. Here is a simple example.

Two 500 HP engines. One makes 500 HP at 6000 and the other at 7000. The second engine will always be quicker. Always. You gear accordingly.

If it wasn't simple math, Pro Stock would all be running small bores, long strokes and turning John Deere RPM's.

It's simple math.
 
While the math works out, the equipment doesn’t always do.

Your right about one thing! Gear accordingly!
 
rumblefish360 said:
While the math works out, the equipment doesn’t always do.

Your right about one thing! Gear accordingly!
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I agree. Build accordingly. Today, with the stuff available I built my street engine to shift at 7000-7200. It's a street engine for Gods sake. To build this stuff and shift it a 6000 is silly. That's sooooo 1999-2000ish. And it was too low back then.
 
You RPM heads make this game way to tough (and expensive). Play your games and my slow azz junk will see you at the finish line. And on a budget too. I build my junk to 60 foot, then I work on 330 foot. From there it gets easy.
 
yellow rose said:
Today - I built my street engine to shift at 7000-7200. It's a street engine for Gods sake. To build this stuff and shift it a 6000 is silly. That's sooooo 1999-2000ish.
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That is neither here or there RPM wise. If you “NEED” to build a 7-7.5K engine than by all means do so. Building a engine that peaks at 6K is just fine. If that build suites the owner/driver, then so be it but to advocate another grand to 1500 more RPMS as if it was nothing for street use, I gotta say that is pure stupid and nonsensical sense.
 
yellow rose said:
If it wasn't simple math, Pro Stock would all be running small bores, long strokes and turning John Deere RPM's.
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What you and pittsburghracer are talking are apples and oranges. Pro Stock, and most class racing in general is a different animal then bracket race engines. Pro Stock in a 2350 pound car with a full pit team, and a spare engine or two in case they scatter the engine, plus sponsors to pay for it all. Most bracket guys have one engine that needs to last for the whole season, a car that can be well over 3000 pounds, a buddy for a pit crew. High RPM's and light weight come at a cost that a lot of guys can not afford. The easy way to go fast is to put stroked engine in the lightest car you can find, and keep the RPM's down so it will live for a whole season. So, for the pro class stuff you are correct, but for the guys on a budget I would take pittsburghracer's combo.
 
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My last 360, I pulled 300 rpm's out of it because it didn't change the E.T. I went from 6000 down to 5700 rpms and ran the same. I shift the engine at the lowest rpm WITHOUT changing the E.T. Better for everything.
 
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318willrun said:
My last 360, I pulled 300 rpm's out of it because it didn't change the E.T. I went from 6000 down to 5700 rpms and ran the same. I shift the engine at the lowest rpm WITHOUT changing the E.T. Better for everything.
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I've done the same thing. Thinking I need to rev it to 68 or higher when 58 would do the same thing...
 
j par said:
I've done the same thing. Thinking I need to rev it to 68 or higher when 58 would do the same thing...
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Alright, i'll put it out there and let those that wish to beat on this post.. :D
For a street car...
  1. Shift at the lowest RPM that runs the best ET. Run the same at 5500 as 5800? Shift at 5500
  2. Run the best highway gear that doesn't lower the ET. IF 3.55's run the same ET as 3.91's, run the 3.55's.
  3. Total timing - run the least WITHOUT giving up any ET. If it runs the same at 34 as 36, run 34.
  4. Keep the car running it's best ET, that is most important. But do it by staying at the lower end of all spectrums. Live Long on the street in a car you'll enjoy, while being as fast as the build allows. :)
 
Pretty much any head from a trick flow on down isnt gonna make peak power at much over 6500-6700 with a 4 inch arm
Even my W5 heads i shifted at 7k(422 cubes)
Just not enough head for that much stroke(4 inch)
Like Pittsburgh racer, i have been down the track a bunch, tried all kinds of different rpm’s to shift at
If it dont go faster, why wring it out unless you have an unlimited wallet and time to thrash under the hood all the time
No thanks
 
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At the track again today on a 86 degree day (3428 corrected alt) and in the Upper 60’s dew point. This is year 4 on this engine with 100’s of 6’0 passes. When you race more times in a month than most do in a year you learn how to treat your equipment.
 
At this point there really isn’t anything to add till a strip only well suited our race car goes out and posts an ET. When it does happen I would love to see air conditions, track location, weight at the line, stoker or stock stroke.
 
DrEamer said:
What you and pittsburghracer are talking are apples and oranges. Pro Stock, and most class racing in general is a different animal then bracket race engines. Pro Stock in a 2350 pound car with a full pit team, and a spare engine or two in case they scatter the engine, plus sponsors to pay for it all. Most bracket guys have one engine that needs to last for the whole season, a car that can be well over 3000 pounds, a buddy for a pit crew. High RPM's and light weight come at a cost that a lot of guys can not afford. The easy way to go fast is to put stroked engine in the lightest car you can find, and keep the RPM's down so it will live for a whole season. So, for the pro class stuff you are correct, but for the guys on a budget I would take pittsburghracer's combo.
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No, it's the same thing. RPM is power. Simple as that. Again, if you think 7000 or 7500 RPM is a lot of RPM, you are ignorant of the parts you have.
 
yellow rose said:
No, it's the same thing. RPM is power. Simple as that. Again, if you think 7000 or 7500 RPM is a lot of RPM, you are ignorant of the parts you have.
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Part capability and parts usage and drivers comfortably are 3 different things.
 
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