turbo 6 bangers post here

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Bill Dedman said:
Here is what I found at the NGK website:

Field three: Heat Range

2=Hottest
10=Coldest
Click to expand...


Damn Bill looks like I'm wrong:eek:ops: I guess my part guy could of caused me some issues thanks for the clarification I gotta go get myself some different plugs
Aaron
 
srixon4406 said:
Damn Bill looks like I'm wrong:eek:ops: I guess my part guy could of caused me some issues thanks for the clarification I gotta go get myself some different plugs
Aaron
Click to expand...

I am running a set of #8's right now, with a set of #9's waiting to be tried.

I didn't make it to Freddie's, today, (feeling poor...) and he doesn't work (on the car) on Sunday, so I guess it will be Monday before we get to try that MSD to see if it clears up the ignition miss problem, but I think it will..

WE'll see...:prayer:
 
Bill Dedman said:
I am running a set of #8's right now, with a set of #9's waiting to be tried.

I didn't make it to Freddie's, today, (feeling poor...) and he doesn't work (on the car) on Sunday, so I guess it will be Monday before we get to try that MSD to see if it clears up the ignition miss problem, but I think it will..

WE'll see...:prayer:
Click to expand...

Well, you thought "wrong."

The miss starts when the secondaries begin to be opened (it's a double pumper, so the driver's foot controls that) and is a random miss that continues as long as the throttle is open.

This engine has:

New distributor with a locked advance plate, with timing set at 16 degrees advance
New MSD 6-AL 2 and an MSD Blaster II coil.
New Taylor Cable multi-strand (not solid core) plug wires
New blow2 thru carb that has been subjected to a voriety of jets
New F.A.S.T. O2 sensor that is reading 10.5:1 throughout all this missing... maybe too rich; probably should be 11.5:1 under boost
New NGK heat range 8 psatk plugs, gappped at .030" (probably too much gap... probably needs .022"...

Maximum of 8 psi of boost (Waste gate controlled)

I knew that tuning issues would be the most difficult of the problems associated with this build; I just wasn't prepared for the degree of difficulty in getting this thing to run on all 6 cylinders all the time. It runs great at part throttle... feels fast, comparatively.

But, when the secondaries come open, it becomes an incoherent mess.

I'm going to try Aaron's suggestion and disconnect the secondary linkage and try to tune this thing as a two-barrell, tomorrow; didn't get anything done, today. Ryan's Valiant ran low 11's in the quarter-mile, using just the front two barrels of his 600fm (or, maybe a 650?) Holley and ours is a 750, so maybe it will like that; I dunno...:banghead:

Wish me luck!!!:happy1:
 
Rockerdude said:
Good luck Bill! I'm still watching this thread like a hawk.
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Thanks for the well-wishes...

When you have spent the money for the best available parts and have been careful to install them properly, and it still runs like s***, well, you might be better off, watching somebody else's thread... LOL:banghead:

Just sayin'...
 
Bill Dedman said:
Thanks for the well-wisshes...

When you have spent the money for the best available parts and have been careful to install them properly, and it still runs like s***, well, you might be better off, watching somebody else's thread... LOL:banghead:

Just sayin'...
Click to expand...
Dont give up hope there bill im glad your back up and runnung tho hospitles suck .
 
Dart_Doctor said:
Dont give up hope there bill im glad your back up and runnung tho hospitles suck .
Click to expand...

Thanks, Doc; I appreciate the encouragement.

I'm going down there (to the shop) o unhook the secondaries, today, and jet it a little leaner (10.5:1 is too fat, I think) and make a test run with it like that.

I'll let y'all know what I find out. The waste gate is set at 8 pounds of boost, right now. I figured there was just no reason to set it higher if all it was going to do was mis-fire...:eek:ops:
 
Good Luck Bill...Keep after it...She will tell you win you got her where she wants to be.. You just need to tickle the rite spot....lol
 
Bill I just got your voice mail congrats:blob::blob::blob:
I'm working now but ill try and return your call later tonight
Aaron
 
racerhog said:
Good Luck Bill...Keep after it...She will tell you win you got her where she wants to be.. You just need to tickle the rite spot....lol
Click to expand...

I put in a new set of #9 heat range NGK plugs gapped at .022" and disconnected the secondaies, put in a load of fresh 110 octane VP racing gas and headed out to the freeway where I could let it all hang out for a few seconds.

WOW!! The miss was totally gone and the tach shot up to 5,500 instantly. The boost gauge climbed instantly to 8 pounds (where I had set it) and the A/F ratio looked like 11.2:1... a little fat, but workable!

I had to stop and stall-start it... just HAD to!

I eased it off the line because I didn't have the slicks on it, but when it got to 2,500 in 1st gear, I floored it, short-shifted 2nd at 4,500 and it REALLY pushed me back in the seat.

No kidding!

I own a (different) low 11-second car, so I am used to nice acceleration in 1st gear, and this thing is rght in the ballpark, I think.

On a 2-barrel.

Now, to get it to run with a 4bbl in place and operating...

It's always something...
 
srixon4406 said:
Bill I just got your voice mail congrats:blob::blob::blob:
I'm working now but ill try and return your call later tonight
Aaron
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That would be great, Aaron!


Your help is much appreciated and both Freddie and I are in your debt for all the great advice!

Thanks!!!!
 
Bill thanks for the kind words you and I are in this together and have been for the last two plus years you have put up with my ignorance in some matters.
It's refreshing to no at 72 your still in the learning stages of life.
I'm jealous thou I wish I could be out getting some seat time in my valiant but it is what it is I guess garage tuning is better then nothing.
Keep at it Bill also 11.25 afr is almost perfect Alot of tuners try for 11.5 better to be alittle fat then lean.
Aaron
 
srixon4406 said:
Bill thanks for the kind words you and I are in this together and have been for the last two plus years you have put up with my ignorance in some matters.
It's refreshing to no at 72 your still in the learning stages of life.
I'm jealous thou I wish I could be out getting some seat time in my valiant but it is what it is I guess garage tuning is better then nothing.
Keep at it Bill also 11.25 afr is almost perfect Alot of tuners try for 11.5 better to be alittle fat then lean.
Aaron
Click to expand...

Aaron, I WISH I were 72... lol!

Next Thursday, I'll turn 74; Freddie just turned 75 on the 13th...

Time marches on!!! LOL!

But, age is just a number... so, we soldier on, and try to have a good time as we go...

It's nice to finally be making some progress, after all the mixture B.S.....


Thanks again fior all your help!!!:blob:
 
This is great news to see this morning Bill, so :blob: when can I drive over
and see you and Freddie :coffee2:
I owe you and him a BBQ lunch and would love to spend some time around the shop.
Congratulations on getting it out and feel some g's in the seat :cheers:
I bet the Valiant is starting to come out
of hibernation :cheers: wow :thumleft: I hope you have been keeping notes :D
 
Yes... Notes. We will want a recipe once you've fine tuned everything. :)
Sounds like your efforts are goig to be rewarded.
 
Keeping notes on all this would be a waste of time because all the blind alleys we went down, and hoops we had to jump through to get there were not always much fun. But the final recipe that WORKS if we ever get there, I will be more than happy to share with anyone who wants it. That's part of the satisfacrion of doing something like this; helping others.

Sure feels good... like they say; BOOST IS ADDICTING!!! :)
 
memike said:
This is great news to see this morning Bill, so :blob: when can I drive over
and see you and Freddie :coffee2:
I owe you and him a BBQ lunch and would love to spend some time around the shop.
Congratulations on getting it out and feel some g's in the seat :cheers:
I bet the Valiant is starting to come out
of hibernation :cheers: wow :thumleft: I hope you have been keeping notes :D
Click to expand...


Thanls a lot for the kind words, Memike! I can always oount on you for inspiration!!! That's worth a LOT!

Come visit and I'll buy YOU the biggest steak in towm!!! :profiler:

Seriously!!!

(Can't wait to get a turbo on Victoria!!!)
 
Bill Dedman said:
Thanls a lot for the kind words, Memike! I can always oount on you for inspiration!!! That's worth a LOT!

Come visit and I'll buy YOU the biggest steak in towm!!! :profiler:

Seriously!!!

(Can't wait to get a turbo on Victoria!!!)
Click to expand...

Thank you Bill , :rock: remember :wink::-$:-$:-$:-$ :blob:
 
Dart_Doctor said:
Keep rocking bill !
Click to expand...

Thanks for the encouragement, Asa! I'm workin' on it!!!! :cheers:

Tomorrow (Monday) I'm gonna work on getting the Accusump ioil accumulator installed. It's a 3-quart model and I'm hoping it may add to the life of the turbo.... dunno f'r sure...:prayer::prayer::prayer::prayer:
 
Bill Dedman said:
Thanks for the encouragement, Asa! I'm workin' on it!!!! :cheers:

Tomorrow (Monday) I'm gonna work on getting the Accusump ioil accumulator installed. It's a 3-quart model and I'm hoping it may add to the life of the turbo.... dunno f'r sure...:prayer::prayer::prayer::prayer:
Click to expand...

Didn't get anywhere NEAR that Accusump today. Spent the time repositioning the waste gate, which was located in the wrong place on the header.

I had originally positioned the waste gate port in the header to the rear of the port created for the 0-2 bung, before I learrned that the 0-2 sensor needs to be located in the exhaust system AFTER the turbocharger (this is the kind of mistake you make when you don't know what the Hell you're doing.)

This position of the waste gate port put it right beside the divider that creates the juncture of the two primary pipes (at the end of a a two-into-one collector.) This resulted in it gettting exhaust flow from only three cylinders. Our boost gauge fluttered when it came onto boost, and I believe the reason why, was because it was not getting flow from ALL the cylinders.

I decided to move it forward to the location where the 0-2 sensor had been intended to reside. A new bung was welded into the downpipe for the 0-2 sensor, freeing up this more desirable space for the waste gate.

I spent the afternoon attempting to move the waste gate port/mount to that location, which turned out to be a very time-consumiing operation since cutting through some pretty tough T.I.G. weld was involved.

In the pictures below, you can see how the waste gate really NEEDED to be moved.

We didn't get finished, so no pictures yet, but as soon as we can get this little chore completed, I'll post some photos of the new locaation. Now, it will be picking up exhaust pressure from both header pipes, and maybe our fluttering boost gauge will settle down.

At least, that's the plan... Stay tuned...:happy1:
 

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Bill Dedman said:
Didn't get anywhere NEAR that Accusump today. Spent the time repositioning the waste gate, which was located in the wrong place on the header.

I had originally positioned the waste gate port in the header to the rear of the port created for the 0-2 bung, before I learrned that the 0-2 sensor needs to be located in the exhaust system AFTER the turbocharger (this is the kind of mistake you make when you don't know what the Hell you're doing.)

This position of the waste gate port put it right beside the divider that creates the juncture of the two primary pipes (at the end of a a two-into-one collector.) This resulted in it gettting exhaust flow from only three cylinders. Our boost gauge fluttered when it came onto boost, and I believe the reason why, was because it was not getting flow from ALL the cylinders.

I decided to move it forward to the location where the 0-2 sensor had been intended to reside. A new bung was welded into the downpipe for the 0-2 sensor, freeing up this more desirable space for the waste gate.

I spent the afternoon attempting to move the waste gate port/mount to that location, which turned out to be a very time-consumiing operation since cutting through some pretty tough T.I.G. weld was involved.

In the pictures below, you can see how the waste gate really NEEDED to be moved.

We didn't get finished, so no pictures yet, but as soon as we can get this little chore completed, I'll post some photos of the new locaation. Now, it will be picking up exhaust pressure from both header pipes, and maybe our fluttering boost gauge will settle down.

At least, that's the plan... Stay tuned...:happy1:
Click to expand...

The work today consisted of grinding out the bung to the size of the wastegate standpipe (1.5") and not much else.


My friend, Bobby Roper, is coming down Saturday to weld the new waste gate standpipe to the collector. We'll get him to weld a cap onto the original standpipe and take a test drive to see if moving the wastegate made any difference to our wildly-fluctuating boost gauge needle.

Wish us luck...:banghead:
 
Bill, just wanted to let you know I'm watching this everyday I just don't take the time to sign in normally. Keep up the good work! Yours and srixon4406's cars are amazing, I can't wait to see what your cars run when you finish.
 
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