What hp and torque am I making?

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dustyaman said:
Well I have 2 kids so I've been there done that. I've done everything else to a car except build an engine and build a transmission. Well the transmission will never happen. Because I will buy the sst tkx kit. But it was nice to build a engine without taking anything to a machine shop.
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It is a good feeling to do stuff yourself- especially an engine when it comes to life. Congrats on your first build.

BTW did you have someone check the heads for you, especially valve stem to guide clearance? Curios because of the oil you mention on top of the piston.
 
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mgoblue9798 said:
It is a good feeling to do stuff yourself- especially an engine when it comes to life. Congrats on your first build.

BTW did you have someone check the heads for you, especially valve stem to guide clearance? Curios because of the oil you mention on top of the piston.
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Unfortunately no. That's where I went cheap on this. I was going to save up and get the heads reworked or buy another set of aftermarket heads. But I got impatient and wanted to get the cam broke in. Took a chance. Obviously this was the wrong thing to do. So now the engine is broke in and the engine runs pretty strong and sounds healthy. I will now save up to get new heads with the right springs for the cam.
 
dustyaman said:
Right now the way I have it setup my airfuel ratio gauge goes from 13.5 -13.2 at idle and about 13.8- 13.5 revving it. So the fuel trim looks good. I don't have to pump the carb to fire it up cold or hot. So timing is pretty good also.
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dustyaman said:
Unfortunately no. That's where I went cheap on this. I was going to save up and get the heads reworked or buy another set of aftermarket heads. But I got impatient and wanted to get the cam broke in. Took a chance. Obviously this was the wrong thing to do. So now the engine is broke in and the engine runs pretty strong and sounds healthy. I will now save up to get new heads with the right springs for the cam.
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You don't necessarily need new heads unless that is just what you want to do and have the money to do it.

For a street build toy the factory iron is fine and can be made better with some minimal work. If you have your heads checked and the guides and or seats are trashed, then maybe you spend the money on new or find a good used set to use as cores.

If it were me doing a basic low compression rebuild I would not spend a pile of money on heads. If you do need some though the speedmaster heads usually go on sale at a big discount around Thanksgiving. They still would need to be checked out though by someone to make sure they are set up properly.

You can do a basic check by setting them chamber side up and fill each chamber with alcohol, gas, or whatever liquid. If the valve job wont hold liquid in the chamber then it wont seal air either and will need attention. Before installing any heads they need to be taken apart and cleaned well.
 
mgoblue9798 said:
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You don't necessarily need new heads unless that is just what you want to do and have the money to do it.

For a street build toy the factory iron is fine and can be made better with some minimal work. If you have your heads checked and the guides and or seats are trashed, then maybe you spend the money on new or find a good used set to use as cores.

If it were me doing a basic low compression rebuild I would not spend a pile of money on heads. If you do need some though the speedmaster heads usually go on sale at a big discount around Thanksgiving. They still would need to be checked out though by someone to make sure they are set up properly.

You can do a basic check by setting them chamber side up and fill each chamber with alcohol, gas, or whatever liquid. If the valve job wont hold liquid in the chamber then it wont seal air either and will need attention. Before installing any heads they need to be taken apart and cleaned well.
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Thank you for the information. If I spent the money and put bigger valves on the 308 heads I have with a minor tune up in them maybe a little porting. Would it help power with these heads?
There is a set of 2.02 j heads on here for sale that have already been rebuilt with the springs that I would need already on them for 1000. Would that be a better option?
 
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IMO, there is nothing wrong with a stock cylinder head besides there weight. Ultimately, the valve lifts so high and the amount of air and fuel that the engine can ingest is limited by the intake track starting at the air filter. Maximize the ability of the air filter, carb, intake, cylinder heads and the best will shine through.

Considering how high the cam is lifting the valve, an iron cylinder head can flow very well with the lift the valve is seeing. A move to an aluminum head is most likely a win, but at what cost? Can a bowl ported factory iron perform great? You bet. But the cost factor has to be worked into it. If your doing the porting yourself, they could be a win. The key here aside from cost is the ability to closely match or exceed the prospective aluminum heads ability to flow air and fuel in the amount of valve lift your set up has.

The engine doesn’t know or care what the heads material is made out of. Your wallet might know the difference!
 
dustyaman said:
Thank you for the information. If I spent the money and put bigger valves on the 308 heads I have with a minor tune up in them maybe a little porting. Would it help power with these heads?
There is a set of 2.02 heads on here for sale that have already been rebuilt with the springs that I would need already on them for 1000. Would that be a better option?
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As far as your heads go they have to be checked out to know. If they are good cores for rebuild, then just having a good 4 or 5 angle valve job on the seats, back cut your stock intake valves, springs for your cam set up, and a minor clean up of the bowls, and shaving .030 or so off to bump compression a little are the best bang for the buck. If you have a set of 2.02 valves already or need to buy new valves then use them, but it isn't a lot of difference on your build level.

I would not spend 1000 on a used set of rebuilt heads. At that point the new speedmasters on sale are the better deal.
 
rumblefish360 said:
IMO, there is nothing wrong with a stock cylinder head besides there weight. Ultimately, the valve lifts so high and the amount of air and fuel that the engine can ingest is limited by the intake track starting at the air filter. Maximize the ability of the air filter, carb, intake, cylinder heads and the best will shine through.

Considering how high the cam is lifting the valve, an iron cylinder head can flow very well with the lift the valve is seeing. A move to an aluminum head is most likely a win, but at what cost? Can a bowl ported factory iron perform great? You bet. But the cost factor has to be worked into it. If your doing the porting yourself, they could be a win. The key here aside from cost is the ability to closely match or exceed the prospective aluminum heads ability to flow air and fuel in the amount of valve lift your set up has.

The engine doesn’t know or care what the heads material is made out of. Your wallet might know the difference!
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So the lighter wallet is the key to going faster with aluminum heads? :)

Joking aside this is good advice.
 
mgoblue9798 said:
As far as your heads go they have to be checked out to know. If they are good cores for rebuild, then just having a good 4 or 5 angle valve job on the seats, back cut your stock intake valves, springs for your cam set up, and a minor clean up of the bowls, and shaving .030 or so off to bump compression a little are the best bang for the buck. If you have a set of 2.02 valves already or need to buy new valves then use them, but it isn't a lot of difference on your build level.

I would not spend 1000 on a used set of rebuilt heads. At that point the new speedmasters on sale are the better deal.
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Wouldn't shaving the head cause me to get new pushrods because now the ones I would have be .030 to long?
 
Not a fan of the speedmaster heads in there OOTB condition. But! If YOU can do the work yourself, that’s great. It’s hard to ignore the “Black Friday Sale” on these heads. Stupid cheap!

I have a set of them from ProMaxx fully CNC ported. At the time of purchase before the bug and inflation that is happening, there cost now of just over 2K represent an excellent bang for the buck. They flow some decent numbers that if you wished, could be expanded on.

A0755A05-8300-4D61-A02D-C56715F182C8.png


Shocker 185 Mopar CNC (Sold in Pairs) - PROMAXX Performance Products
 
In think stock 1.88 J heads will support 400 Hp as will stock 2 1/4" duals. Flow on stock heads stall out around .480 lift so bigger valves or new heads won't help flow but may give you a bit more compression.
Here's Comps own XE268 dyno test using a 9:1 sb Chev 355 with nice Dart heads (i know) and I think more guys would like the XE262 it appears slightly better everywhere!
You have a real nice street engine as Rusty says!

xe268.JPG


xe262.JPG
 
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ir3333 said:
In think stock 1.88 J heads will support 400 Hp as will stock 2 1/4" duals. Flow on stock heads stall out around .480 lift so bigger valves or new heads won't help flow but may give you a bit more compression.
Here's Comps own XE268 dyno test using a 9:1 sb Chev 355 with nice Dart heads (i know) and I think more guys would like the XE262 it appears slightly better everywhere!
You have a real nice street engine as Rusty says!

View attachment 1715987222

View attachment 1715987225
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That is picking the fly poop out of the black pepper picking between those two cams. :)

I would choose the XE262 if buying new out of those two as well for a low compression street motor spending most of its time under 4k, but would also just run whichever one I had on hand and not worry about the small difference.
 
rumblefish360 said:
Not a fan of the speedmaster heads in there OOTB condition. But! If YOU can do the work yourself, that’s great. It’s hard to ignore the “Black Friday Sale” on these heads. Stupid cheap!

I have a set of them from ProMaxx fully CNC ported. At the time of purchase before the bug and inflation that is happening, there cost now of just over 2K represent an excellent bang for the buck. They flow some decent numbers that if you wished, could be expanded on.

View attachment 1715987217

Shocker 185 Mopar CNC (Sold in Pairs) - PROMAXX Performance Products
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I was looking into those when they first came out. But man if they jumped in price I'm out.
 
12many said:
If they are shot absolutely replace them.


Surely you can’t be serious? He said they’re shot. If they’re shot you replace them. Unless you enjoy driving around and after every stop you marvel at the clouds of oil smoke at startup. :realcrazy:
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No you know me better. I'm dumb not stupid. I missed where he said they're shot.
 
Usually worn valve guides don't blow a lot of smoke while running, the valve stems are usually tight enough to prevent excessive leakage. If the guides are worn it's common to see a lot of smoke when you start the engine after it has been shut off for awhile and the oil has seeped in for a time.
 
dustyaman said:
Yes I did and they are expensive.
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FWIW, I’d enquirer about a set without springs since you’ll want a set to match your cam exactly. If they won’t offer the CNC job without springs and just valves, the just a bare CNC head would be good, just figure out what valves are used. I’m sure someone here knows what to get.
IIRC @MOPAROFFICIAL can guide ya right in that.

Just food for thought.
 
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rumblefish360 said:
Not a fan of the speedmaster heads in there OOTB condition. But! If YOU can do the work yourself, that’s great. It’s hard to ignore the “Black Friday Sale” on these heads. Stupid cheap!

I have a set of them from ProMaxx fully CNC ported. At the time of purchase before the bug and inflation that is happening, there cost now of just over 2K represent an excellent bang for the buck. They flow some decent numbers that if you wished, could be expanded on.

View attachment 1715987217

Shocker 185 Mopar CNC (Sold in Pairs) - PROMAXX Performance Products
Click to expand...

@rumblefish360
Do you have these running in a car or are they a work in progress? Looking for feedback on performance and your application (cam, gear, etc).
I've got a set of the non-CNC MAXX 171 that I'm contemplating sending back for the CNC treatment. Last I checked he would do the upgrade for ~$900. The extra 25-35 cfm above .500 lift should make a pretty good difference on the top end, but because I'm focusing on road course type performance I want to be careful not to kill the low and midrange rpm torque.
 
@gzig5 Yes, on a 10.5-1 - .030-340, EDELBROCK 750, RPM-AG, (Is was a 1.5 factory rocker arm, I just measured pushrod length yesterday for a move to—)
Comp Cams 1.6 roller rockers, Summits 1-5/8 headers into a Summit 2-1/2 exhaust. MP viscous fan and a aluminum radiator. MP distributor.

Cam card below;
I had Comp Cams modify this HFT from a 110 to a 108.
Valve lift is now .582. I haven’t run it with the new valve lift yet.

3149C635-84DD-423D-9789-74AF0E5A7030.jpeg


A quick video on the break in stand;

 
I have not found a standard type of replacement head, which would be along the lines of;

Edelbrock
TrickFlow
W2 - W5

That is to large ether OOTB or well ported, NOT race ported, that’s different, that is to large of a head for a 340 or a 360. I should also state that, on a combo that’s not out of wack or insanely disturbing in the parts choice.
 
Have it put on a dyno and remove all guesstimates, also you can fine tune it on the dyno
 
rumblefish360 said:
@gzig5 Yes, on a 10.5-1 - .030-340, EDELBROCK 750, RPM-AG, (Is was a 1.5 factory rocker arm, I just measured pushrod length yesterday for a move to—)
Comp Cams 1.6 roller rockers, Summits 1-5/8 headers into a Summit 2-1/2 exhaust. MP viscous fan and a aluminum radiator. MP distributor.

Cam card below;
I had Comp Cams modify this HFT from a 110 to a 108.
Valve lift is now .582. I haven’t run it with the new valve lift yet.

View attachment 1715987715

A quick video on the break in stand;

Click to expand...

Nice. Love the idle lope. That's pretty close to the 340 combo I'll have, exception being Hooker 1 3/4" headers and the cam recommended by Jones is SFT 244/252 @.050" .365"/.364" Lobe Lift 108 LSA. Will use an A833 trans. I need to start measuring the bores to see if it will still work with the standard bore pistons or if I'll have to get it bored this winter. After it's running with the AirGap, I've got an M1 intake and an Edelbrock TR5 to play with.
 
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