why do you guy's like a turbo vs a centrif Supcharger?

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pishta said:
$200 bucks...its the plumbing thatll kill you.

Want American, How about a big Holset Off a Cummins out of a junk yard? (although I thinkthey are Brit?)

Superchargers, they take 50-100HP to run them depending on boost level, they are belt and gear driven so they make noise, there are many moving parts in a gear driven supercharger, and they all produce drag, its not very EZ to manipulate boost levels unless you change pulley sizes, Belt drive supercharger have gear change lag, ie when you drop RPM's, the boost level goes down proportionally to the RPM drop. A Turbo has more of a buffer (stored pressure) especially in automatic cars, less lag (not to be confused to its own shortfall, turbo lag, which can actually be beneficial in wheel spin control) When you are not using them, they are still running. Throw a belt, dent your hood...

Whats a paxton cost?
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There is ABSOULTELY NO WAY, I'm useing a used turbo. No way, no how, just forget about it. Figure, I spend alot of money building a wicked strong bottom end and you all want me to put a used POS on top?!?!

You all GOTTA be kidding me. Seriously!!!!!!!!!! :wack:

Depending on the supercharger type and HP level being chased. I hate to say it Pista, your very wrong.

Top fuel guys are useing a unit that will take 300+ HP to drive for the power there pumping out.
Street Paxtons pumping up/out 5 -7 psi use up less than 10 hp to drive.
The "Tuner kit" is under $2600; http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PAX-1201850/
The complete kit is $3110; http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PAX-1201851/

For me, this is a easy bolt on kit, OOTB power. Minus a boost retard ignition and a seious fuel pump for pressurizing your engine. IIRC, that's what I'll need.


Now, back to a "NEW TURBO" price?
 
Looks like i got some activity with this post! ITS A GOOD ONE.
I am in the process of posting the old HOT ROD article on the 600 plus HP turbo build for $3000 including the engine under my" $450 chinese turbo thread" I will have it all on there today

Winter is coming and i have a 120K stock 440 with 915 heads It might be fun to mess with a turbo if I get excited enough from these posts?(gettin there)
i picked up a 54 F100 with a Cordaba front clip for $900 and it would fit right in there!!!!
!!!!! LOTS OF FUN truck weighs 3000lbs
 
tooslow said:
Looks like i got some activity with this post! ITS A GOOD ONE.
I am in the process of posting the old HOT ROD article on the 600 plus HP turbo build for $3000 including the engine under my" $450 chinese turbo thread" I will have it all on there today

Winter is coming and i have a 120K stock 440 with 915 heads It might be fun to mess with a turbo if I get excited enough from these posts?(gettin there)
i picked up a 54 F100 with a Cordaba front clip for $900 and it would fit right in there!!!!
!!!!! LOTS OF FUN truck weighs 3000lbs
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Ok now you did it, you mentioned the F word! The inmates get kind of excitied when guys start mixing manufacturers. You know like putting a chevy in an A body. Be interesting to see if it's ok to put a Mopar in a Ford.

Sounds like a cool project to me.
 
zhandfull said:
Ok now you did it, you mentioned the F word! The inmates get kind of excitied when guys start mixing manufacturers. You know like putting a chevy in an A body. Be interesting to see if it's ok to put a Mopar in a Ford.

Sounds like a cool project to me.
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OOOOOPS!!!! OH right -I efed up!!! :banghead:
Sorry-dont banish me back to H.A.M.B
When the porsche forum found out i put a 327 in a 911 the moderator kicked me off-- I never learn:shock:
 
tooslow said:
OOOOOPS!!!! OH right -I efed up!!! :banghead:
Sorry-dont banish me back to H.A.M.B
When the porsche forum found out i put a 327 in a 911 the moderator kicked me off-- I never learn:shock:
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Ok Lets see it done. I like old Ford Trucks and with a Mopar 440 a killer combination that will screw with peoples minds at a Ford event. Ok I know I am a bad person I will go to my room now.
 
A while back I spoke to the Supercharger Store about a procharger. On the paper where I had his # written down there was a number, $4350 for a d1sc unit complete for a bb. Was told it would support up to 900 hp. Don't quote me on that price though. I downloaded a price sheet from SDCE a while back, for a complete TT SB set up it was in, damn computer is acting up so gotto go.....try this again, the price for one of the SDCE TT SB kits was 5218.00 and that was with a non-recircualting waste gate. A local shop quoted me an "off the top of his head" amount of $7k, included in that price was stainless steel headers and as he put it, a decent ball bearing turbo......keep in mind it was a while ago, 6 months or so, I got these numbers....
 
txdart said:
what is the cheapest centrifugal supercharger available?
Plenty of guys running cheap ebay turbos and plumbing them for cheap....
I thing the man reason people are going turbo is cheaper and part of hot rodding,,,building your own....
Maybe after you finish your project you may have spend more than some super chargers but it maybe a pay as you go project as opposed to projects on hold till i can afford a super=charger.....
Making your headers...would be cool,with a lot of satisfaction that you did it yourself....unless you are looking for a turbo kit mopar specific then it is the same or more than a super-charger....
Have fun make it yourself...go turbo!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

well said!!!!!!!!
 
tooslow said:
When the porsche forum found out i put a 327 in a 911 the moderator kicked me off.
Click to expand...

Shame on them.

Sooo, you put a SBC 327 in a Porchse? Let me put it to you this way...

:prayer::prayer::prayer:
 
old tired rebel said:
Ok Lets see it done. I like old Ford Trucks and with a Mopar 440 a killer combination that will screw with peoples minds at a Ford event. Ok I know I am a bad person I will go to my room now.
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LMAO its weird and funny how upset people get. I took my 327 911 to a PCA event(Porsche Club of America) - Budump -Budump -Budump vs ZZZZZZZ! They **** Wasnt welcome. Thier Butts were so tight they were "FARFROMPOOPIN" and to much SLOPPINZNOBBIN so i booked


And A Cordoba front suspension with torsion bars and an 8 3/4MOPAR rear-end already installed
Quite a few H.a.m.b 'rs flipped and got pretty nasty. Not reallly alowed to bring it up over there either. Not period correct
I AM FIRST AND FOREMOST A MOPAR MAN AND WISHING I COUD GET BACK SOME OF THE MOPARS I HAVE SOLD--MOPARS ARE EXPENSIVE BUT I AM ALWAYS LOOKING FOR MY NEXT MOPAR-IF i HIT THE LOTTERY i WILL QIUT PICKIN AND PIECIN
 
tooslow said:
And A Cordoba front suspension with torsion bars and an 8 3/4MOPAR rear-end already installed
Quite a few H.a.m.b 'rs flipped and got pretty nasty. Not reallly alowed to bring it up over there either. Not period correct
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Nothing against H.A.M.B I am a member there too,but I have stopped going there. They are too strict about what can be done on cars and trucks and are bad for flaming new ideas.I believe in doing what you want not what others think. I for one am just getting into the turbo idea and so far it looks like a good affordable way to get huge horsepower.
 
old tired rebel said:
Nothing against H.A.M.B I am a member there too,but I have stopped going there. They are too strict about what can be done on cars and trucks and are bad for flaming new ideas.I believe in doing what you want not what others think. I for one am just getting into the turbo idea and so far it looks like a good affordable way to get huge horsepower.
Click to expand...
ME TOO-The turbo idea woud make a better canadate for my really nice Coronet Wagon--Runs good and only 83,000.00. Lots of room
I am going to finish posting the cheap turbo article in 30 minutes under "$450 chinese turbo" thread You may find it interesting Sir??
 
tooslow said:
ME TOO-The turbo idea woud make a better canadate for my really nice Coronet Wagon--Runs good and only 83,000.00. Lots of room
I am going to finish posting the cheap turbo article in 30 minutes under "$450 chinese turbo" thread You may find it interesting Sir??
Click to expand...
Great I am looking forward to it. No need to call me Sir That was my grandpa.
Call me Cliff
 
Street Paxtons pumping up/out 5 -7 psi use up less than 10 hp to drive.


Yeah Maybe at idle... Water pumps, alternators And A/C systems use anywhere from 3-10 hp each! to drive. The only reason other than Rules that Top Fuel does not use Turbochargers is because if they dont spool right on time they will hydraulic, Just like if they throw a blower belt. when your making 8000 hp you can throw away 300 just like if your making 500hp you can throw away 50hp. Turbo chargers have no Parasitic loss but they do have lag.
 
xlexl said:
It's called twin-charged, been happening for quite sometime, extremely expensive however. Not really aware of any kits available for it, meaning it requires some very pricey complex 1off parts.

Twin-Charged Ogura Clutch Fairlady-Z / 350Z (Z33) - YouTube
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It used to be real common for Diesels so that they could run 60+ pounds of boost, Or a 2 stroke turbo diesel with a scavengeing blower to evacuate the cylinders for a fresh intake charge.Its exotic for sure but not needed on a gasoline engine.


Joe.
 
Lag not!

This is a 6.0 SBC with Twin 76mm Turbo's on it. Stock Crank, Rods, Pistons, Heads & Manifolds.....

Hang on! There are a TON of SBC guys running in the 8's with no more that a Stock 5.3 or 6.0 Litre with Twin Turbo's using an LS6 Cam with new valve springs on the Stock ECU & a Custom Tune..... Most of these guys have no more than 4K into the whole Engine with the Turbo set up & everything.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDWO6FR-KWk&feature=player_embedded"]LS TURBO MUSTANG - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIow-xcgctc&feature=player_embedded"]Burgess Performance ls Turbo Mustang - YouTube[/ame]
 
Mad Dart said:
Lag not!

This is a 6.0 SBC with Twin 76mm Turbo's on it. Stock Crank, Rods, Pistons, Heads & Manifolds.....

Hang on! There are a TON of SBC guys running in the 8's with no more that a Stock 5.3 or 6.0 Litre with Twin Turbo's using an LS6 Cam with new valve springs on the Stock ECU & a Custom Tune..... Most of these guys have no more than 4K into the whole Engine with the Turbo set up & everything.

LS TURBO MUSTANG - YouTube

Burgess Performance ls Turbo Mustang - YouTube
Click to expand...


LOL I never said Lag was a concern of mine... :)
 
Mad Dart said:
Just sharing information. Those cars HAUL *** with stock everything and 0 Lag. Those cars wheelie like a motorcycle and far too.
YES, I am jealous[/QUOTE

Im totally on the same page :) Im glad so many people are doing really well with nothing motors and ebay junk. Some of the guys are spooling with nitrous but with that said they are still hauling some serious balls. Makes me really excited to get going with my build, I would be real happy with a low 11 second street ride and by the looks of things that wont take a whole lot,The work has already been done by a whole lot of people so now its our turn. oh by the way those cars are WAY faster than most motorcycles.

Joe.
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turboJoe said:
Rumblefish said;
Street Paxtons pumping up/out 5 -7 psi use up less than 10 hp to drive.
Click to expand...

Yeah Maybe at idle...
Click to expand...

No, at speed. Check it out.

Turbo chargers have no Parasitic loss but they do have lag. No, at speed. Check it out.
Click to expand...

While they themselfs have no parrasidic loss, they amount of power to drive one is a loss to the engine since the exhaust gasses spin the unit, a certain amount of pressure is required to maintain and accelerate the turbo.

This is back pressure. Last time I checked, back pressure was not good for N/A engines, why is it different for a turbocharger.

Heres a trick for you. Try this sometime.

Use a external source for pressure and then hook up the turbo/centrif/charger to the engine to mirror the same boost levels through out the dyno run and see the difference.

You will never again honestly say, "Turbo power is free power." because you can't ... honestly say so.
 
turbos are adjustable on the fly with a little knob from 1psi to 30+ psi. an efficeint turbo system has a pressure ratio of 1:1 (intake to exhuast) . a large exhuast negates backpressure on a turbo.

i have one customer that runs a holset on a 2.2 daily driven 4dr shadow with a 4" exhuast to 3" midway minimal lag begs for traction and is a complete hoot to drive. picked up the turbo with low miles. even if you did not want a used one they can be had for 300. and buy a rebuild kit for 100 now it is new for 400 it take all of an hour and half to refurb and they will handle in excess of 40psi.

a decent t3/t4 with good wheels and housings brand new will run you about 950.00

universal cheap ebay pipe kit from cx racing 88.00 with a i/c like 188.00 (unless you get the dual in single out cooler) comes with enough to plumb most cars with a single turbo


dual bb turbos are not a necessity they are more efficient and spool quicker and much more expensive

i like turbos . each has their own merits

Norm
 
rumblefish360 said:
No, at speed. Check it out.



While they themselfs have no parrasidic loss, they amount of power to drive one is a loss to the engine since the exhaust gasses spin the unit, a certain amount of pressure is required to maintain and accelerate the turbo.

This is back pressure. Last time I checked, back pressure was not good for N/A engines, why is it different for a turbocharger.

Heres a trick for you. Try this sometime.

Use a external source for pressure and then hook up the turbo/centrif/charger to the engine to mirror the same boost levels through out the dyno run and see the difference.

You will never again honestly say, "Turbo power is free power." because you can't ... honestly say so.
Click to expand...

Your 10 hp figure is a joke right? The Hp to turn a blower is based on the same principle you state later in your post. The hp required to turn a supercharger is based on how much boost its making. According to Procharger a F3R on a motor I built at 24 psi is taking 100 hp ( and a top fuel motor takes 1000hp at 40 pounds of boost) to turn. That is the reason for a 3 inch cog tooth belt. If it took 10 hp you would be able to use a v belt and a small one at that.

A turbo does create back pressure, thats true. However a turbo motor works on pressure differential. Lets say a N/A motor has 2 psi pressure in the exhaust while , lets say for the sake of another arguement, the intake has 0 psi. So a turbo motor on 22 pounds of boost has 5 pounds of back pressure in the header you still have a 17 pound pressure difference. Hence the general consensus that turbos are "free" HP. I honestly can say that turbo power is free because engines create heat and in creating this heat is how hp is made and a turbo takes advantage of the expanding gases to create even more wheel speed in the turbo. Not to mention when the turbo is up to speed since it is allowed to accelerate past the speed at which the exhaust is flowing it can actually have a scavenging effect.

No matter what your into an intercooler will make more hp than a non intercooled motor no matter how much boost. Obviously the more boost the more heat and the intercooler is more advantageous.

Centrifugal superchargers are friggin awesome as well as a turbo motor. Both make big power, both are not easy power, there is always a certain amount of pain and suffering to make big power. Just ask someone you know who has made big power.

Check it out, I recommend the book "maximum boost" by Corky Bell for some light reading to support what i just wrote.
 
rumblefish360 said:
No, at speed. Check it out.



While they themselfs have no parrasidic loss, they amount of power to drive one is a loss to the engine since the exhaust gasses spin the unit, a certain amount of pressure is required to maintain and accelerate the turbo.

This is back pressure. Last time I checked, back pressure was not good for N/A engines, why is it different for a turbocharger.

Heres a trick for you. Try this sometime.

Use a external source for pressure and then hook up the turbo/centrif/charger to the engine to mirror the same boost levels through out the dyno run and see the difference.

You will never again honestly say, "Turbo power is free power." because you can't ... honestly say so.
Click to expand...
I don't know what any of this imaginary equipment is or what it does, Turbos still only use wasted energy to operate, off of boost zero backpressure period.
I am so tired of trying to explain this to you and you don't seem to want to understand no matter how many times or how many people try to help you. No hard feelings but I give up sorry dude but you hurt my head.
 
turbodart68 said:
Your 10 hp figure is a joke right? The Hp to turn a blower is based on the same principle you state later in your post. The hp required to turn a supercharger is based on how much boost its making. According to Procharger a F3R on a motor I built at 24 psi is taking 100 hp ( and a top fuel motor takes 1000hp at 40 pounds of boost) to turn. That is the reason for a 3 inch cog tooth belt. If it took 10 hp you would be able to use a v belt and a small one at that.

A turbo does create back pressure, thats true. However a turbo motor works on pressure differential. Lets say a N/A motor has 2 psi pressure in the exhaust while , lets say for the sake of another arguement, the intake has 0 psi. So a turbo motor on 22 pounds of boost has 5 pounds of back pressure in the header you still have a 17 pound pressure difference. Hence the general consensus that turbos are "free" HP. I honestly can say that turbo power is free because engines create heat and in creating this heat is how hp is made and a turbo takes advantage of the expanding gases to create even more wheel speed in the turbo. Not to mention when the turbo is up to speed since it is allowed to accelerate past the speed at which the exhaust is flowing it can actually have a scavenging effect.

No matter what your into an intercooler will make more hp than a non intercooled motor no matter how much boost. Obviously the more boost the more heat and the intercooler is more advantageous.

Centrifugal superchargers are friggin awesome as well as a turbo motor. Both make big power, both are not easy power, there is always a certain amount of pain and suffering to make big power. Just ask someone you know who has made big power.

Check it out, I recommend the book "maximum boost" by Corky Bell for some light reading to support what i just wrote.
Click to expand...


Very well put.
 
It depends on what your looking for. Me and my brother have had this conversation millions of times. If you want almost instant power you want a supercharger. If you want more efficient power you want a turbo.
IMHO, I would go with both. Twin charging. I know someone said why do that, well if you have ever used an oxy fuel torch, its the same concept. You can turn up the fuel and have an inefficient flame or can turn the oxygen up too high and the flame goes away or you can get the right mixture and have raw, efficient, "heat."
With twin charging you get the benefits of both, you get the efficient-ness of a turbo and the almost instant power of a super.
Also, a lot of folks think that a turbo in built for the motor, I don't think this is true. You can take a turbo for a TD and slap it on a 340 and it will blow up unless you build it right and you can bluild all your plumbing.
Correct me if i'm wrong, please
 
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