72BBSwinger
Well-Known Member
Quench seems to be the key to this. I plan on 10.8 with a 75-78cc closed chamber with the pistons at 0 deck. I'm stuck with 91 octane though. Cam is gonna be 114 installed at 110.
Why is it so hard to get good advice !!???
- Thread starter Kern Dog
- Start date
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Using the combination with quench and a late intake valve event, you can run a surprising amount of static compression on pump gas. You see people saying the late intake closing "bleeds off" cylinder pressure, and I use those term as well, but that' really not the case at all. By closing the intake valve later, all you are doing is changing when the cylinder starts the compression stroke, the engine is not bleeding anything off. There's zero waste, as the "bleeding off" statement implies, you are simply changing where in the compression stroke the cylinder begins to compress the mixture.
72BBSwinger
Well-Known Member
It seems to be a method the OEMs have embraced, might as well apply it to a dinosaur.
-Sledgehammer-
Mopar Performance
My Jetta is 10.5 to 1 lol
Its almost all back together and ready to fire. Somehow I lost my radiator cap and all my spares are marginal. The cam break in really tests an engines cooling system, so I'm buying a new cap tomorrow. After that it I'll install the plugs and wires. I hope to fire it up tomorrow.
-Sledgehammer-
Mopar Performance
Cool deal and good luck.
moper
Well-Known Member
Stick an electric fan in front of the radiator (or car.. where ever) and run that on high while the cam's breaking in. I'd rather make sure there's adequate air flow then have to stop in the middle 'cause it's getting hot.
Good luck and keep us posted. I knew you were anal. Got some radiator caps layin around won't won't use them. Smart boy. Get you a new one. That thing is gonna sound like a pissed off, short changed nasty ho.
Success*****Success*****Success*****Success*****Success******Success !
I was able to break in the cam today...FINALLY!
truth be told, I took every precaution you could imagine because I was SOOooooo nervous about something going wrong. I have actually had more good luck with cams than bad, but THIS latest project with the Cam, lifters, pushrods, springs, timing set, oil pan and everything else has taken a big $$$ chunk from my stash. I would have felt like a total *** if I skipped something that later turned out to be the cause of a failure.
I read and reread the article in this months Mopar Action regarding "First Fire". I followed all of my usual steps along with what Rick wrote in the article. The car did fire within 2 seconds of cranking and I had my helper hold the RPMs to 2800. Somehow the engine had no leaks anywhere. All the oil, fuel and water stayed where it was supposed to. I was quite pleased with that. To aid cooling, I had a cheap box fan in front of the bumper. The engine sounded great from the exhaust end, but not much more radical than before. The exhaust smelled cleaner than before if that makes any sense. None of the eye burning rich mixture that I have smelled before. Yesterday I changed the jets front and rear, going up from 85/92 to 86/93. I also stepped the power valve up from 3.5 to 6.5. Fuel pressure was between 6 and 9 psi, sorta fluctuating back and forth.
At about the 15 minute mark the engine temp was getting beyond my comfort. At the same time, the fuel pressure dropped to around 3 psi and there was very little gas visible in the filter. As the engine seemed to stumble for fuel, I had Jeff shut the engine down. At first I thought it was running too hot to continue. I let it cool for 2 1/2 hours while leaving the box fan blowing through the radiator.
I figured that with 15 minutes of run time, I needed another 15 to complete it. I added fuel into the vent, but it just puked out from inside. Apparantly the bowl had enough fuel. I started it again and ran it up to 2600-2800. This time at the 10 minute mark, the fuel pressure dropped down to 3 psi and the filter was almost dry. The pump is a Holley 12-440-11 unit mechanical with a 110 GPH rating. It does not leak and the fittings are tight. At idle, it stays at 7-8 psi but this break in shows that it may be lacking. I did not drive it because I don't want the dang thing to crap out on me while out on the road.
Is it common to run into fuel starvation problems during a cam or engine break-in? I run at 2600-2800 while driving on the freeway and haven't had this happen. Is it possible that this cam sucked more fuel than the '509 so I now need a better fuel pump?
It sounds great at idle. I did expect a more radical sound with more of a mechanical "clack" from the valvetrain, but I'm not complaining. If it makes more power while running fine on 91 octane, I've achieved my goal. Here are my questions though:
* Fuel starvation. If the pump worked fine before with the previous setup, but now the pressure drops after a few minutes of 2800 rpms, do I need a different pump?
* Does anyone have a suggestion for a good mechnical pump?
* Is it recommended to change the oil and filter after the cam break in or should I run it with all this moly lube and "break-in oil for 500 miles or so. The engine has about 3000 miles on it since 2011.
Thanks! I look forward to a test drive tomorrow!
I was able to break in the cam today...FINALLY!
truth be told, I took every precaution you could imagine because I was SOOooooo nervous about something going wrong. I have actually had more good luck with cams than bad, but THIS latest project with the Cam, lifters, pushrods, springs, timing set, oil pan and everything else has taken a big $$$ chunk from my stash. I would have felt like a total *** if I skipped something that later turned out to be the cause of a failure.
I read and reread the article in this months Mopar Action regarding "First Fire". I followed all of my usual steps along with what Rick wrote in the article. The car did fire within 2 seconds of cranking and I had my helper hold the RPMs to 2800. Somehow the engine had no leaks anywhere. All the oil, fuel and water stayed where it was supposed to. I was quite pleased with that. To aid cooling, I had a cheap box fan in front of the bumper. The engine sounded great from the exhaust end, but not much more radical than before. The exhaust smelled cleaner than before if that makes any sense. None of the eye burning rich mixture that I have smelled before. Yesterday I changed the jets front and rear, going up from 85/92 to 86/93. I also stepped the power valve up from 3.5 to 6.5. Fuel pressure was between 6 and 9 psi, sorta fluctuating back and forth.
At about the 15 minute mark the engine temp was getting beyond my comfort. At the same time, the fuel pressure dropped to around 3 psi and there was very little gas visible in the filter. As the engine seemed to stumble for fuel, I had Jeff shut the engine down. At first I thought it was running too hot to continue. I let it cool for 2 1/2 hours while leaving the box fan blowing through the radiator.
I figured that with 15 minutes of run time, I needed another 15 to complete it. I added fuel into the vent, but it just puked out from inside. Apparantly the bowl had enough fuel. I started it again and ran it up to 2600-2800. This time at the 10 minute mark, the fuel pressure dropped down to 3 psi and the filter was almost dry. The pump is a Holley 12-440-11 unit mechanical with a 110 GPH rating. It does not leak and the fittings are tight. At idle, it stays at 7-8 psi but this break in shows that it may be lacking. I did not drive it because I don't want the dang thing to crap out on me while out on the road.
Is it common to run into fuel starvation problems during a cam or engine break-in? I run at 2600-2800 while driving on the freeway and haven't had this happen. Is it possible that this cam sucked more fuel than the '509 so I now need a better fuel pump?
It sounds great at idle. I did expect a more radical sound with more of a mechanical "clack" from the valvetrain, but I'm not complaining. If it makes more power while running fine on 91 octane, I've achieved my goal. Here are my questions though:
* Fuel starvation. If the pump worked fine before with the previous setup, but now the pressure drops after a few minutes of 2800 rpms, do I need a different pump?
* Does anyone have a suggestion for a good mechnical pump?
* Is it recommended to change the oil and filter after the cam break in or should I run it with all this moly lube and "break-in oil for 500 miles or so. The engine has about 3000 miles on it since 2011.
Thanks! I look forward to a test drive tomorrow!
Nice. Have you rechecked the cranking PSI yet?
No, I might try that tomorrow though. The engine was still warm when I closed down for the night. I hate trying to remove plugs on a hot engine. All my other compression tests have been on the engine cold, so thats another reason to wait.
I reread the Lunati instructions. They say to change the oil right after the break in, so I'll do that tomorrow.
I'll drive it tomorrow, keeping close to home. I doubt that the fuel problem will show up by taking a few laps around the block. I'd sure like to know what fuel pump I should use though. The car sure is dusty! It has been sitting for awhile now. Maybe a month and a half?
I reread the Lunati instructions. They say to change the oil right after the break in, so I'll do that tomorrow.
I'll drive it tomorrow, keeping close to home. I doubt that the fuel problem will show up by taking a few laps around the block. I'd sure like to know what fuel pump I should use though. The car sure is dusty! It has been sitting for awhile now. Maybe a month and a half?
This one.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/crt-m4862/overview/make/dodge
You got a regulator I hope.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/crt-m4862/overview/make/dodge
You got a regulator I hope.
Regulator? Uhhhh......
My Holley pump has nothing but a steel line up to a filter, then into the dual feed line to the carb. I've never used a regulator and never thought I needed one. Care to elaborate?
My Holley pump has nothing but a steel line up to a filter, then into the dual feed line to the carb. I've never used a regulator and never thought I needed one. Care to elaborate?
Fuel pressure regulator. Summit sells them. That carburetor probably won't take 9 PSI so it needs a regulator. I guess you don't have a return line either?
Uhhh...No, I do not.
I guess I'll need to open the wallet again? I know what a regulator is... I was just kidding. I have always used stock type mechanical pumps. The Holley I have has been fine before.
I would be fine with a consistant 6 lbs if there were a pump that could deliver it. The Edelbrock pump listed on the Summit site shows a 3/8" inlet and outlet compared to the 1/4" size of the Holley I have. It seems that the larger size would deliver a greater volume of fuel, right?
I guess I'll need to open the wallet again? I know what a regulator is... I was just kidding. I have always used stock type mechanical pumps. The Holley I have has been fine before.
I would be fine with a consistant 6 lbs if there were a pump that could deliver it. The Edelbrock pump listed on the Summit site shows a 3/8" inlet and outlet compared to the 1/4" size of the Holley I have. It seems that the larger size would deliver a greater volume of fuel, right?
I didn't link to an eddy pump. I linked to a Carter.
I checked your link about the Carter pump and saw that it was listed as having 1/4" inlet/outlets like my Holley. I wondered about how the 3/8" size of the Edelbrock pump compared.
STOP IT!!!! Get the Carter. It's the better pump. You need to remember that's 1/4" PIPE THREAD. It's BIG. It will flow plenty. You need to look at the GPH. Even if the Eddy was rated more the Carter is still the better pump.
You need to understand 1/4" pipe thread ID is close to 1/2". 1/2" fuel line will flow 1200 HP. BIG difference between pipe thread and FLARE thread, which is what fuel line is.
I wish my dad would have taught me this stuff. He wasn't as much into cars and blue collar stuff as I am and it would have been nice to have the guidance.
moper
Well-Known Member
My father only fixed a car when he had to. He's a retired engineer that has dealt with everything from nuclear reactors to process modeling for machining to the masts on the America's Cup yachts. But as I've gotten older, I've realized that I'm glad he didn't teach me. It's not the fastest way to learn by doing (and making mistakes) but it certainly leads you to a really good place.
breakstuff
Well-Known Member
You want some good advice?
Never my pepperoni from a Mohel
Never my pepperoni from a Mohel
Well I screwed something up.
This morning I changed the oil. 6 quarts of 10w30 VR1 and a Napa 1515 filter. I thought about the fact that I should have had a fan shroud on this car, so I went about modifying one I had here. I cut this, shaved that and made 6 brackets to mount it. It fits in there and the fan has at least 1/2" clearance everywhere. No problem.
I washed the car. There was no way I was going to drive it out of here looking like a field car. All shiny and clean, I set out for a test drive and to get a Double Gulp of Mountain Dew. It felt snappy, but I didn't really lean into it until I got on the main road. The timing was set to 30 degrees fro the break in, so I left it there at first. I figured that I'll just bump it until it pings, then back it off a bit and check the total advance at home with a timing light. The first chance I got, it started to ping. The gas is a mix of 2 month old and 1 week old 91 octane. I doubt the gas is bad already. I backed the timing off a few degrees and tried it again. Still pinging. I backed it off a third time and at this point the pinging was gone, but I had to raise the idle to keep it running. It was also very lazy from idle to 2500. At home I held it at 2900 and checked total timing.....20 degrees! Plus, the headers started to glow red, so I dropped the rpms down and killed it.
I must be running pretty lean, huh? Isn't glowing headers and detonation with minimal advance partly due to a lean condition? I thought I that when I rejetted it one size larger at each end it would help. Maybe the PV is bad? It passed the suction test.
I have a wideband guage kit I bought last winter. I had bungs welded into the collectors to use the guage. I guess I should focus on getting that thing in place so I can get to tuning this thing.
It sounds good though!
This morning I changed the oil. 6 quarts of 10w30 VR1 and a Napa 1515 filter. I thought about the fact that I should have had a fan shroud on this car, so I went about modifying one I had here. I cut this, shaved that and made 6 brackets to mount it. It fits in there and the fan has at least 1/2" clearance everywhere. No problem.
I washed the car. There was no way I was going to drive it out of here looking like a field car. All shiny and clean, I set out for a test drive and to get a Double Gulp of Mountain Dew. It felt snappy, but I didn't really lean into it until I got on the main road. The timing was set to 30 degrees fro the break in, so I left it there at first. I figured that I'll just bump it until it pings, then back it off a bit and check the total advance at home with a timing light. The first chance I got, it started to ping. The gas is a mix of 2 month old and 1 week old 91 octane. I doubt the gas is bad already. I backed the timing off a few degrees and tried it again. Still pinging. I backed it off a third time and at this point the pinging was gone, but I had to raise the idle to keep it running. It was also very lazy from idle to 2500. At home I held it at 2900 and checked total timing.....20 degrees! Plus, the headers started to glow red, so I dropped the rpms down and killed it.
I must be running pretty lean, huh? Isn't glowing headers and detonation with minimal advance partly due to a lean condition? I thought I that when I rejetted it one size larger at each end it would help. Maybe the PV is bad? It passed the suction test.
I have a wideband guage kit I bought last winter. I had bungs welded into the collectors to use the guage. I guess I should focus on getting that thing in place so I can get to tuning this thing.
It sounds good though!
The glowing headers is from the retarded timing. Since the timing is late, the mixture is burning into the headers. It is beginning to sound like you need to adjust the timing curve itself. Does it have vacuum advance or not? What type distributor?
The distributor is a MP electronic with vac advance. I have it plugged. I have the chrome ECU and the plugs, plug wires, cap and rotor are all new.
Timing curve of any kind, it should have run detonation free at 30 degrees if it wasn't running lean, right? The exhaust smells as clean or cleaner than my 2007 truck. NO smoke, almost no fumes of any kind.
Timing curve of any kind, it should have run detonation free at 30 degrees if it wasn't running lean, right? The exhaust smells as clean or cleaner than my 2007 truck. NO smoke, almost no fumes of any kind.
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