RustyRatRod's Guide To Hot Rod Bliss

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Stock 340
Stock 360 with 340 cam, mild head milling, larger 2.02 valve is your call.
(HP versions need not apply the 340 cam, you have it already)

Add headers and 2-1/2 exhaust
Multi spark box/Chrome box/FBO box
 
ir3333 said:
... Can someone cook up a bullet proof small block using economical parts that
will start and idle easily,pull HARD to 5000 rpm with lots of bottom end and get decent mileage.
"a good starting point"
Click to expand...

Good lord. Duplicate the original 340 / 360 as close as you can
 
rumblefish360 said:
Stock 340
Stock 360 with 340 cam, mild head milling, larger 2.02 valve is your call.
(HP versions need not apply the 340 cam, you have it already)

Add headers and 2-1/2 exhaust
Multi spark box/Chrome box/FBO box
Click to expand...

Rumble 's got it....and this is the point of the thread
no huge cam,no $700 carb,no $700 headers,no $2000 alum. heads yadda yadda!
this will be quicker than most, street light to street light,especially big blocks!
 
ir3333 said:
Rumble 's got it....and this is the point of the thread
no huge cam,no $700 carb,no $700 headers,no $2000 alum. heads yadda yadda!
this will be quicker than most, street light to street light,especially big blocks!
Click to expand...

Exactly. Glad "most" are getting it.
 
Back on the subject. Chrysler cordoba big brake to A body spindle upgrade is a really cheap way to go. I got mine for $50. Rebuilt the calipers myself. Seal kits were $6 each. Add in getting the rotors turned, new wheel bearings, outer races, dust seals, and a new set of pads n mounting hardware, total spent including junkyard purchase price a tick over $100. Doing this mod you need to upsize your master cylinder by using a cordoba unit so it ports the correct amount of fluid to the larger cordoba calipers.
 
I got a 340 with an Aug 70 build date, so that makes it for a 71. Number is listed in the lost and found thread, over a year ago. Cylinders are in good shape as far as ridge, almost none, fingernail won't snag, pistons will come out easy. I think I'm just going to have it looked at and hope for the best as far as being bored, no bad taper. Keep it simple, nice and easy and it will be fast enough for me. As I said before, a very good thread!
 
On the junk yard thing, i guess i'm just lucky i have the room.
The problem is, nobody wants the parts or won't pay anything for them.
And shipping kills the deal.
So, i guess i'll have to piece together cars with what i have and scrap the rest.
This is why i like stock or next to stock builds, no fitment problems, straight forward, and dead nuts reliable.
Not everyone can afford or do they need to build expensive stroker engines.
Back in the day when that route was very expensive, they were unheard of.
Now they seem to be the rage, but do you really need it?
Nothing will replace good quality machining, a practical well thought out combination of quality parts, and a good tune up.
You have to be honest with yourself and build what you need and ignore the "hype".
 
I def agree w rusty, sometimes all the high dollar isnt the best. Hot rodding used to be about making the best of what you have, or what you can adapt or use off other cars, and even fabricating what you need from something, or from scratch. I love the GM HEI module firing a mopar electronic dist. So what the module is GM, it delivers a hotter spark than a stock mopar box, or even orange box will , and its tiny and hidable, you ditch the ballast resistor too.
 
M body dippy, fury, fifth ave V8 radiator is direct bolt in to the 67 to 72 rad support, and puts lower radiator hose on pass side. Allows use of later aluminum waterpump with pass side lower hose. More common pump , cheaper too. Got mine at rock auto new GMP pump 6 blade $14 95

M bodies also have engine driven thermostatic clutch fans, and shrouds to go with that afore mentioned radiator. Even more of a good deal if you dont plan on running electric fans.

Also M body V8s use an aluminum oil filter angled adaptor. I believe same part as what used to be in the MP catalog years ago. Perfect for header swaps. Junkyard fresh for about $10. Get a gasket/seal kit from mancini racing.
 
I'm glad RRR said it. I've always believed a solid, basically stock, well tuned v8 was plenty. Tune the carb, tune the distributor/timing and let it breathe. Then just pick the gears that fit what you do with the car and you got a very solid ride. All the other stuff is great for racing and and shows, but not necessary for a tough street car.
 
340 Mopar A bodies rule, like a 1971 4 speed Duster running 12.7 seconds in the 1/4 with only 5 non stock parts. 750 avs carb, ld340 intake, 4.56 gears, 1.5" headers, slicks. engine as assembled from the factory
 
Alrighty. I promised some simple, affordable recipes so this is where I'll start.

Lets do a 318. LA OR Magnum. It does not matter. You are splittin hairs arguing about one or the other. Perhaps the only advantage goes to the Magnum for the roller cam. But this isn't THAT discussion, so create another thread for THAT if you want to beat me to death with experience. Thanks.

Choosing the 5.2 Magnum here, for availability and great wear resistance.

"I" recommend getting a "good" used high mileage engine as a base. LKQ is a fantastic source. You have the internet too, look them up in your area. I found a 1999 5.0 roller Ford engine for 300 bucks WITH a 6 month warranty for the Robkat motor. Nuff said.

With that in mind, here we go.

Camshaft: Oregon Cams regrind. No surprises here. They will regrind your 318 roller core for 125 bucks to any of their grinds on their site. They will mix and match any listed intake or exhaust profile or any LSA FREE of charge. "I" recommend 205-220 degrees duration @ .050 and no more for this level. Lastly, USE THE RECOMMENDED SPRINGS. Don't be a dummy. This is no area to skimp. Not even on a budget. If you feel the need to use stock springs, go buy a box of Tiddly Winks and change hobbys, this one ain't for you. Ask for Bill.

OREGON HYDRAULIC ROLLER GRIND LIST:
http://www.oregoncamshaft.com/Hydraulic-Rol-Cam-Specs.html

Stock lifters are fine here. You can even use the originals if they look good. Don't be skeered. Take them apart and clean their guts up. All that holds them together is a little wire retainer. Remove it. Be CAREFUL. It will shoot across the room into the Twilight Zone. Although you CAN keep track of which lifter guts go with each lifter body, 'taint really necessary. Just clean them all good make sure the springs aren't broken, lube them with ATF and reassemble. If that's not for you, buy another set. Around 100 bucks.

Intake manifold: With budget in mind, the "Crosswind" or any other chinkesium air gap knockoff will suffice here. We're not looking to break the bank. Of course, if you have the extra coin for the Eddy part, go for it.....but then if you are building because of budget constraints, chances are you will welcome the imported piece. At this power level, you will never know the difference. Used is also fine.

Distributor: Summit sells a GREAT MSD knockoff that uses the MSD bushings to adjust mechanical advance. I highly recommend them. WHAT?!?!?! Did the MSD hater hisself just recommend MSD? Yeah. It has adjustable mechanical and vacuum advance, PLUS it is about 100 bucks cheaper than the MSD. Wouldn't surprise me if it is made by the same "folk". Probably THE single most expensive part here, but DO IT. You will not regret it.

DISTRIBUTOR: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-850028/overview/make/dodge

Magnums are noted for their fantastic wear resistance on the cylinder walls. Newer oils? EFI? Who gives a darn. That's another discussion. Start another thread. Use the original pistons here. This is a no brainer. Magnums have a shorter deck for increased compression anyway, so this is a plus. Wanna spend the extra to blueprint the deck height? I recommend it. But, that's mo money. Bout 150 where I am. Use a good moly ring. Low tension is FINE for the street. Cost a little more, but the number ONE friction causer in engines is ring friction. Again, wanna argue? Start another thread.

HEADS: The Magnums have pretty good heads, IMO.......long as they ain't cracked. You can get by with around .025" milled without worrying about having too much compression OR intake alignment problems. But honestly, you really don't need the extra compression, unless you just want it. No need to get real specific measuring for compression.....you CAN if you want. Around 9:1 or so is perfect.

All of this cam grinding and milling will likely necessitate custom pushrods. I don't know how many times I've seen on this site people shut SLAM down and dig their heels in over this. That's just stupid. You can get custom pushrods for 100 bucks give or take, BUT most likely, you can find an off the shelf pushrod for WAY less. I got off the shelf pushrods for RobKat for like 37 bucks. Don't be a moron and let something that simple scare you away from a nice engine.

Notice I say nothing about rocker arms. Get the pushrod length correct and the stock rockers are great. Why replace them when it's not necessary? More stupidness.

What are we up to now? Yall keepin score? I ain't, but even includin the original purchase price of the core, it still ain't much and we're probably gonna be lookin at a bonifide 300 HP 318.

Headers: SUMMIT. Shut up now about all yall's TTI this and Dougs that.....total CRAPPOLA for a budget build. You got it. Wanna argue? Start a thread. As long as you don't ghetto your junk out all in the weeds in the front and run the stock ride height and at least stock height tires, you will never hit a thing. Under 150 bucks for headers for a Mopar. Oh happy day.

Headers: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g9040/overview/year/1970/make/dodge/model/dart

Carburetor. I gotta be honest here. Carburetors can be somewhat complex for a beginner.....hell I still have some give me fits today. Sometimes you just get a bad one. But I strongly recommend finding a good used core and building one yourself. You will learn it yourself and you will save money. What's not to love about that? I can get a kit for most Holleys and AFB and AVS styles for under 30 bucks. Thermoquad kits are usually around 50.

If you just HAVE to have a new one, I cannot recommend the Edelbrock 600 AFB or the Edelbrock 650 AVS any stronger. Although I have no direct experience, I really want to try a Street Demon Thermoquad knock off. I have read nothing but good things. No, don't buy your buddies 3310 750 for your 318. Dummy.

That's about all I have for now. Maybe next time I will write about the next level up. A mild 360. Just remember don't get caught up in going crazy picking parts out. It's only a mild street motor. Long as you stick close to what's recommended here, you will be a happy camper.

Feel free to add to. All thoughts are welcome......even arguments.....but please, lets not do that HERE. You got it. Start another thread. Thank you drive through. Constructive add ons are welcomed here, in THIS thread. If you want to argue a point, please make another thread for THAT discussion. I hope that clears up any confusion.
 
Great advice,Rob.Keep it simple,and basic. That always works.
 
Rob,
With Your Humble indulgence, I would like to add the below,

'tinfish' started out as an 'P' package '67 Barracuda cookie cutter car---

273, Carter 2 bbl, 904, 7.1/4 rear rag wheel, P/s, a/c ,drum brake Mustang/ Camero
Market share challenge design :violent1:

Ended up an 318 ,with late 340 heads (71-73 smog heads) mechanical lifter/ rocker valve train from an Commando Engine.
Tp-141 TRW cam, Ld 340 dual plane intake (mounting holes elongated for fitment) Carter
600 Comp series, Home wired Gold box ign to replace the dual point Mallory, 8 3/4 open axle
from an 'taxi B fury' (minor spring pad cut & relocate of course) Challenger T/A individual
tube cast iron 'headers'.
Windage Tray , Dual Remote oil filter set up , with bar and plate oil cooler from a CHP Polara,
Kelsey Hayes 4 Piston up front, Residual check valve (rear) removed from the Manual brake master cylinder, (read balanced braking on a budget lol).
And the best for last, an 'Small block' 727 with Truck Planetary gear sets :glasses7:

I am a cheap bastid !!!

Apologies Sir,
Back on topic...
Admin, My Humble Opine, Mr Robs OP should be a sticky...

p.s,
Triple R... just " lighten the ---FANDUCHIE --- up View attachment icon_lol.gif
 
A most welcomed addition sir. Exactly the direction we are going. Muchas grassy ***.


mech1nxh said:
Rob,
With Your Humble indulgence, I would like to add the below,

'tinfish' started out as an 'P' package '67 Barracuda cookie cutter car---

273, Carter 2 bbl, 904, 7.1/4 rear rag wheel, P/s, a/c ,drum brake Mustang/ Camero
Market share challenge design :violent1:

Ended up an 318 ,with late 340 heads (71-73 smog heads) mechanical lifter/ rocker valve train from an Commando Engine.
Tp-141 TRW cam, Ld 340 dual plane intake (mounting holes elongated for fitment) Carter
600 Comp series, Home wired Gold box ign to replace the dual point Mallory, 8 3/4 open axle
from an 'taxi B fury' (minor spring pad cut & relocate of course) Challenger T/A individual
tube cast iron 'headers'.
Windage Tray , Dual Remote oil filter set up , with bar and plate oil cooler from a CHP Polara,
Kelsey Hayes 4 Piston up front, Residual check valve (rear) removed from the Manual brake master cylinder, (read balanced braking on a budget lol).
And the best for last, an 'Small block' 727 with Truck Planetary gear sets :glasses7:

I am a cheap bastid !!!

Apologies Sir,
Back on topic...
Admin, My Humble Opine, Mr Robs OP should be a sticky...

p.s,
Triple R... just " lighten the ---FANDUCHIE --- up View attachment 1714830888
Click to expand...
 
Rusty, give us a timing chain recommendation, and would you recommend a tensioner setup off a magnum V8

Id say just use a replacement stock type single roller chain if using the automatic tensioner.
 
IMP, a MP chain tentioner & a Summit roller chain.
Bamm, done, have a good day.
 
Degreeing your cam. Cheap insurance that the cam n crank are phased correctly. Even cheaper if you have a friend you can borrow the degreeing tools from. Just because its machined like a timing gear set, doesnt mean its correct.
 
rumblefish360 said:
IMP, a MP chain tentioner & a Summit roller chain.
Bamm, done, have a good day.
Click to expand...


Also dont shy away from brands like Summit. They sometimes are name brand stuff, just thrown in a different box, but with the OE instructions and a Summit sticker slapped on it. I've bought numerous Summit brand items, that were originally Holley, Trick Flow, and Edelbrock, like I said just reboxed.

Another good way to save a few bucks.
 
moparmat2000 said:
Rusty, give us a timing chain recommendation, and would you recommend a tensioner setup off a magnum V8

Id say just use a replacement stock type single roller chain if using the automatic tensioner.
Click to expand...

I like the Cloyes stuff. Cloyes makes the MP chain tensioner, so buy the Cloyes brand. It will save you money.

The Cloyes True Roller sets are good. The rollers are seamless. They are heavy duty.

Timing set: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/clo-9-1103/overview/make/dodge

Tensioner: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/clo-9-5387/overview/
 
Just checked it out, didnt realize cloyes made the mp tensioner. Good to know. How about their timing sets. Have you ran across many that you had to degree in? Or were they right on the money installed straight up.
 
I put the degree wheel on anything I build now. Most are not out much. I have had one that was 11* off.
 
I thought I would also give a 318 LA recipe, too. Don't want to leave anybody out and I am sure there are plenty of them layin around still and even still in service. They are after all, one of the best engines ever built and IMO one of the most thrown in the ditch and overlooked. Poor 318.

This is for any 67 and up LA 318. Cast or forged crank, it does not matter. I am a huge proponent of what I call "dirt road builds". That is to say, cutting every corner that you absolutely can to achieve the cheapest build possible. It's something I have pretty much had to do with almost every project, because hay, I've never had money and it will probably be that way the rest of my life. Just how it is. With that in mind, here we go.

I love dirt road builds. Their very definition says no boring to try and save every penny possible. But lets face it, the LA engines have been around a long time. Many are already bored and perhaps in good condition still, but lets assume you have a standard bore and it will clean up at .030. With that in mind, here is our recipe. Also, this is a flat tappet, hydraulic cam engine.

67 and up 318 block, bored .030 over.

Pistons: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-526ap/overview/make/dodge

These have a 1.745" compression height, which is pretty tall for a stock 318 piston. A lot of people don't realize the LA 318 had several different compression heights through the years. 1.745 is the tallest.

Deck the block to .025" below the 9.6 factory spec to 9.575. Yes, decking the block adds expense. It is also well worth the payoff. You will see in a minute.

Heads: You can either stick with the early 318 head, or find a set of the "coveted" 302 castings. It does not matter. The early 318 LA heads will need to be milled to 65cc's.....and may already be close OR there. They may even be a touch smaller and that's ok. We have some room in this recipe for variation, so all is good. Our target compression ratio is a shade under 9.5:1 and that's where we will end up.

With a 65cc head, compression with the decked block is 9.2. With the 60cc 302 head, compression is at 9.8. If you end up with the 302 heads, simply substitute the .039" Fel Pro head gasket and you will be a pump gas friendly 9.3.

Camshaft: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hrs-711651-10/overview/make/dodge

I really like what Howards is doing for grinds. Lots of lift in comparison per duration to other companies. Perfect for the large diameter Mopar lifter. The above grind, IMO is really nice for a street car. Although some may disagree, IMO the Comp 901 spring will work here. Very affordable drop in spring requiring no head machining. With this amount of lift though, your machine shop will need to cut the guides for retainer clearance. Don't let this simple procedure deter you. It will be worth it in the long run.

Expect to spend around 450 or so on head work if you need guides and seats. It's something you cannot get around if it is needed. The heads are the most important part of the engine IMO and corners don't need to be cut. Although we are not porting at this level, it is important that head work is done correctly and they are in as good a condition as can be. As I have said so many times before, If you don't want to do this as right as you can, find another hobby. Maybe stamp collecting.

Again, I recommend low tension rings. There are several little tips and tricks for more torque and that is one. They will live just fine on the street. With the fresh bore and new pistons, there will be no excessive oil consumption. I promise.

Intake: "I" personally like the old Weiand Action Plus here. LD4B is also good, if you can find one without mortgaging the house. Another fantastic choice is the old Holley Street Dominator. Yes, it's a single plane, but very overlooked. It has a larger plenum than most other single planes and that, coupled with its runner design gives it great bottom end response. A little known secret these days from us old farts. You can find them cheap too, because they are single planes and "nobody wants them".

For exhaust, see my last post on the Summit headers. They are a great bang for the buck. Yeah, you might have to tweak a tube hear or there.....especially where the torsion bars run close to them, but they are a great bargain compared to 1K dollar headers we don't need here.

Again too, with block decking and head milling, you will need the correct length pushrod. As before, don't let this deter you. Simple things like this assure the engine gets what it needs and it's plum stupid to leave this out.

Distributor: See my last recipe in this thread.

Carburetor: See my last recipe in this thread.

Again, this engine will be an honest 300 HP 318. A very nice little street motor that in a properly prepared A body, might just skank the heck out of something that ain't ready for it. With 4.10 gears and slicks and a good driver, it has some LOW 14 potential. Possibly quicker in the lighter cars. Be pretty embarrassing to get all beat up by a budget 318, but it's happened before. A LOT.
 
If I leave something out, such as rocker arms or oiling system, that means use stock stuff, because it is plenty adequate.
 
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