2009+ 5.7 Hemi Eagle

-
Badasspullin said:
Well when ur done researching and actually get one of ur own running let me know I just posted what i ve learned
Btw I have two engines coupled and running together guess i m just blowing smoke
guess my input isn't welcome here so I won't post any finds anymore
Thanks anyways
Click to expand...

Any bodies input and experience is welcome. Nobody is going to stop you from posting here. You have the same right to post here as I do. But if you post information that is misleading or not factual, you had better be prepared for someone who knows what's up to call you out on it. Welcome to FABO.

And I will have mine finished and running when I'm ready and when the technology is available to accomplish all my desires. I'm in no hurry. I intend my hemi to last for many many miles and it will be right in every way. And it won't cost $20,000.

I'm happy that you have 2 of them and that they are running. However I predict that you will run into problems like piston to valve contact or rod bolt failure(rod bolts are torque to yield). These two things could have been easily avoided by purchasing a couple sets of Comp Cams phaser lock outs ($100 each or so) and a set of replacement rod bolts(cheap). But I suspect that when these engines fail for the stated reasons or others, you won't be back telling us about it.

Again, not my circus, not my monkeys. You do what you want. It's your **** its your money. I don't really care. I care about good info.
 
timing set
 

Attachments

  • camphaser.jpg
    69.8 KB · Views: 596
  • camphaser6.jpg
    43.9 KB · Views: 580
  • camphaser5.jpg
    52.7 KB · Views: 603
  • camphaser4.jpg
    18.2 KB · Views: 576
  • camphaser3.jpg
    78.1 KB · Views: 575
  • camphaser2.jpg
    34.7 KB · Views: 605
  • camphaser1.jpg
    68.8 KB · Views: 655
Limiter
 

Attachments

  • phaselimiter1.jpg
    18.8 KB · Views: 567
  • phaselimiter2.jpg
    27.2 KB · Views: 584
  • phaselimiter3.jpg
    25.5 KB · Views: 555
  • phaselimiter4.jpg
    23.6 KB · Views: 575
Badasspullin,
Please don't stop posting your experience with these VVT Hemis. There are far too many people who post on forums that are just passing on info they've read somewhere and do so as if it's gospel. The "hands on" experience you're getting with your project is hot rodding at it's finest and far beyond much of the postings where the input is based on pictures from the internet and other internet read info that people post.

It IS important to only post what you KNOW to be factual so other people don't spend their hard earned money and end up with a disaster. I got into it one time with a guy who was a Mustang guy, turned Hemi "guru" just because of pictures and things he'd read. Posted something that I knew was just not true and I had the engines in my garage so I could prove otherwise.

The OP here needs to stand down a little and let people contribute invaluable information and not take it so personal. I've had people crap all over some of my threads, which is just plain going to happen. I appreciate the efforts from both of you...




Badasspullin said:
Well when ur done researching and actually get one of ur own running let me know I just posted what i ve learned
Btw I have two engines coupled and running together guess i m just blowing smoke
guess my input isn't welcome here so I won't post any finds anymore
Thanks anyways
Click to expand...
 
Well thanks fer asking. I am in the process of putting a early version cam sprocket on a vvt engine to eliminate the phaser if it works or not I will post my findings .
Also to understand this a bit better I did some digging into the mechanics of the phaser controller which is a solenoid that directs oil pressure to either side of the vane in phaser. When there is no signal from solenoid it is in neutral and so is the phaser so if isn't hooked up to the computer the vvt does not move So in my opinion a phaser lock is an expensive alternative to do nothing that is already done by the engine itself. But this is my 2 cents
 
Some of the info you've been posting in MY view, is ground breaking discovery compared to the info that's been out there thus far. Please keep it coming. Some of it I'd want to double check myself before implementing (that's just how I am), but it is refreshing to hear compared to something like the Comp Cams alternative. A company like Comp Cams is not necessarily going to be looking into what pre-'09 parts may work on a '09-up engine. There's not much money in that for them. They're more inclined to want to come up with a PRODUCT they can sell us.


Badasspullin said:
Well thanks fer asking. I am in the process of putting a early version cam sprocket on a vvt engine to eliminate the phaser if it works or not I will post my findings .
Also to understand this a bit better I did some digging into the mechanics of the phaser controller which is a solenoid that directs oil pressure to either side of the vane in phaser. When there is no signal from solenoid it is in neutral and so is the phaser so if isn't hooked up to the computer the vvt does not move So in my opinion a phaser lock is an expensive alternative to do nothing that is already done by the engine itself. But this is my 2 cents
Click to expand...
 
Yeah, you're probably right in that I should stand down and not take it personally. The thing is, I am OBSESSED. I have been into this vvt hemi for 5 years. That's when I bought mine. It's in my storage unit right now. I have been all over and through it. "Hands on" plus I have some other first hand experiences with these engines too. My hands on experience is every bit as valid as yours.
I am not some Mopar god, I am foul able, and what I say should not be considered gospel truth and go undisputed. Neither should what anybody else says on here or any other Internet forum.
What drives me are verifyable facts. Not hearsay. Not opinions. Not guesses. If I speculate, it's is based on solid info, personal experience and facts. I don't post to read my own posts or pat myself on the back. I post to help others, to educate myself, participate and contribute to the community that has helped me so much.

I welcome you to Prove me Wrong. I welcome it. I challenge you or anybody else to show me that I am mistaken. Please PROVE to me with your "hands on" experience that I am totally mistaken. I would love it because it would make me and everyone else who reads this thread more enlightened and better educated to the facts of the matter. Take plenty of pictures.

I looked into this again to verify my understanding and once again I found that the phaser is at full advance when the engine is at rest or at idle in stock configuration. The ocv, oil control valve, operates at 0% dc(duty cycle) to 100% dc. Zero% dc is full advance and 100% is full retard. If there is no power to the ocv the cam will remain in the full advance position. I read this on several sites and on several threads involving professional engine builders. But this was not enough for me so I called a couple builders for confirmation. Both of these guys who have built dozens of these vvt engines confirmed what I have stated above. I will not name these guys out of respect for them.
Don't believe what I'm saying? Good! I'm a skeptic too! I suggest you call Dave at Modern Muscle(FABO site sponsor), Andy at PRW, Stu @ Inertia Motorsports, Mike @ OST or any of the other builders out there like Arrington etc.

While you're at it, ask about the early 08 and older timing set on a vvt engine. Chris at Modern Muscle already addresses that in a post above. But please, verify it by your own hands on means.

I do not wish ill or failure to anyone. Especially not someone who is daring to be bold and use a G3. I certainly wish you the best of luck and I hope you can get all the bugs worked out and make your machine work and work brilliantly. I want you to succeed. I want you to conquer the competition.

Now do your research and show us what you come up with. I look forward to your contributions no matter what your findings. Best wishes and good luck.
 
Cevidicus said:
The single best post regarding the 'Eagle' I have seen.
Pics, specs and detailed info.

http://www.lxforums.com/board/f88/inside-eagle-09-5-7-a-138211/
Click to expand...

"at zero percent duty cycle, the valve directs oil to the advance dise of the vanes, which results in a fully advanced cam phaser. at 100% duty cycle, oil is directed to the retard side. this results in a timing of about 36 degrees BTDC. at 50% oil is directed to both sides, and maintains the current cam phaser position."

This link was posted on the first page of this thread 3 years ago. It contains factory training information.
 
And I know I come off as a smart ***, know it all, a$$hole... But I'm really not. Im a pretty nice guy.

If you're on Facebook, come see us in the G3 Hemi Swap group. It has only been going for a couple days and we already have 90 members. We would all really like to see more pics of your bad *** pullin' machine. Lots of good knowledgable folks there and it's just getting started. If you join and read my posts you will see my true nature.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/750056585062561
 
BadassPullin', have you come up with anything? I'm super curious. I have actually found some posts and comments that support your theory, to an extent. It had been suggested that while running and with 0%dc input from the ocv the phaser could be in a home position somewhere in between full advance and full retard. But there are comments and info which opposes that.

What have you found? Please share.
 
Here is what Mike Doban at OST had to say when I asked him about the phaser position at rest and idle topic. His response is unedited.:

"Chris,
If you decide to go with an EFI Source unit let me know since I am a dealer/reseller for them. Unfortunately I do not believe that they have VVT control working at this time (unless something has changed in the last few weeks). To answer your question on the cam position at idle with the OCV valve disconnected/unpowered – I do not know for certain but I believe it may be dependent on the valve springs and the ability of the coil spring internal to the VVT system to return the cam to the lockpin position. I have yet to see a VVT engine (and I monitor all of them that come in for a tune now) stay at the lockpin postion at startup. This appears to be regardless of the oil or coolant temp. Now there is the possibility that the PID’s I am using to monitor the cam position are inaccurate.

So what I think is happening on most VVT cammed care with aftermarket springs is that at key off the cam phaser spring get the cam as close as it can to full advance. With stock springs this should be the lockpin location and absolute full advance. With aftermarket springs is it seems it is nearly full advance but can’t get all the way there without oil pressure and some RPM.

Regardless, we are documenting significant power gains with forced induction cars by moving the cam at WOT.

Hope this helps some?

Have a great day!
Mike"


He also said this:

"Chris,
I do not mind if you quote me but please include the fact that I do not know for certain what is occurring and that there are differing opinions.
I will give EFI a call today and see what the current situation is and if they have actually tested the VVT feature of the MS3 unit.

Have a great day!
Mike"
 
And one final note of interest from this conversation. :

"Chris,
Here was the response from EFI Source:

We are still working on the VVT portion and expect to have an engine on the Dyno in about 2 months.

Beth Repko
Account Manager
EFI Source"
 
I've been talking to them as well. It has been my experience that the 4 different places we have worked with to program a stock computer have all failed. I am not going to say who they are. I will say all of them are very nice and tried but did not succeed. So on my car I am not going to run anything factory as far as engine management. Oh the car we had the programming issues on is an 06 Daytona with a 426 built motor. Car will not stop surging after second key cycle.
 
Sorry guys project on hold for a bit having some marital problems but as soon as I find anymore I will be sure to post them. Thanks
 
Cevidicus said:
And one final note of interest from this conversation. :

"Chris,
Here was the response from EFI Source:

We are still working on the VVT portion and expect to have an engine on the Dyno in about 2 months.

Beth Repko
Account Manager
EFI Source"
Click to expand...

To add to this-

I am told they are working on a full plug and play for a 6.4 apache crate motor, DBW, VVT, and all. I don't know an ETA, but E-berg and a few others are working on that with them.
 
Uhcoog1 said:
To add to this-

I am told they are working on a full plug and play for a 6.4 apache crate motor, DBW, VVT, and all. I don't know an ETA, but E-berg and a few others are working on that with them.
Click to expand...

That's great news, Wade. I've been waiting a long time for something like that. I'm sure it's still months and months out but it's something. More and more vvt engines are coming to the market. It only makes sense that someone would take advantage of the vvt features. Having it compatible with dbw and able to actuate the variable runner intakes is a plus too.

Pretty soon people won't even be afraid of them. Lol. Unless they're in the other lane...
 
Badasspullin said:
Sorry guys project on hold for a bit having some marital problems but as soon as I find anymore I will be sure to post them. Thanks
Click to expand...

I'm sorry to hear that, man. I hope you can work it out. Like Cuda SRT8 said, the marriage comes first. I sincerely wish you all the best. Get back to us when you can.

Take care.
 
I've seen some passionate posts for the eagle engine.I have a 2012 model I would like to put in a A body.From my reading this post ,there was a list of options to get them wired up, but that was back a couple years. I hope there are more options and better costs now. Does anybody make a plug a play system for eagle motors, that use vvt and mds? I hope costs have come down,it should not cost more to get a motor running than it does to buy it used.A list similar to what was done before might be helpful to some. I am new here and this is my first time posting, so bear with me. Cervidis is passionate about these, so I'm sure he's on top of this, hope I spelled that right. I would like to see a system that can be changed at a later date. meaning I want to run this stock motor now, while I'm buiding a 2006 5.7 stroker to replace it at a later date. Don't think I'm smart enough to do a megasquirt system, I can't remember where I set my glasses 5 minutes ago. I love mopar men ,we are pretty devoted dudes, I just happen to be old! Thanks
 
With a wideband O2 the MS is pretty much plug'n'play and self learning, but the guys at EFI Source say you'd still have to do some custom work on the VVT end. That said, they aren't out to market yet for VVT. Holley is working on it as well, but not currently there.

So, in a nutshell, your best bet at this stage in the game is Modern Muscle or Hotwire Auto. OE computer, modified harness, and away you go. Add a fuel system and away you go...
 
Bakaruda said:
I've been talking to them as well. It has been my experience that the 4 different places we have worked with to program a stock computer have all failed. I am not going to say who they are. I will say all of them are very nice and tried but did not succeed. So on my car I am not going to run anything factory as far as engine management. Oh the car we had the programming issues on is an 06 Daytona with a 426 built motor. Car will not stop surging after second key cycle.
Click to expand...


Have you reached out to AJ? or Johan?
 
Not sure about them. I would have to ask my buddy, and will.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top