318 build suggestions?
- Thread starter Exjouster
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Ant
Well-Known Member
The OP asked for help with a 318, I'm assuming they can get the short block for dirt cheap. It's easy to obtain for the op, that's probably why they are considering it. The old f**ks here are out of touch, 360s don't grow on trees and depending on the location, the crackheads on CL and MARKET PLACE are not selling them for cheap. I know some old geezers will say hay look there are two 360s for cheap by me, which does not help when it is 2000 miles away in bumblfuck land.
I really don't extremely care what engine the op wants to build, if it's building a 318 or ford 302 or LS swapping an A body mopar, they should enjoy their hobby.
Now some comments to get under the anti-performance 318 **** talkers skin:
I really don't extremely care what engine the op wants to build, if it's building a 318 or ford 302 or LS swapping an A body mopar, they should enjoy their hobby.
Now some comments to get under the anti-performance 318 **** talkers skin:
- You anti performance 318 old f**ks will say buy a 360 or 340 even if it's for a 250HP build.
- You are probably the crackheads that are on Market place trying to sell the clapped out 360 for $2,000.
- I bet some of yall are just arm chair mechanics.
- It's not New York style pizza, it's just pizza, the pizza almost everywhere in the US is just wrong.
- If someone wanted to build a 150HP 318, you will still say buy a 360.
- You will probably get upset over these comments because you have no sense of humor.
PRH
Well-Known Member
Rather than spend $2500 on a set of TF heads for a 318, I’d put 1/2 of that money into a 4” cast crank, a set of Scat I beams, and a set of stroker pistons for a 360 block and build a 408”.
I’d put the other 1/2 of the money into a set of SM heads during the Black Friday sale.
Then I’d be shooting for more like 450-500hp.
I’d put the other 1/2 of the money into a set of SM heads during the Black Friday sale.
Then I’d be shooting for more like 450-500hp.
Exjouster
Well-Known Member
Ok, I suppose I should clarify the goals for the build:
1. Car will be a weekend warrior (cruising to local shows, maybe hit the strip once or twice a year, maybe a longer road-trip once a year).
2. Definitely want it to not be a slouch in stoplight to stoplight, and don’t give a damn about gas mileage. Figure on running 93 octane all the time.
3. The 400 hp number was pulled after seeing the articles on that budget build in the magazines, and finding a 318 that already has the zero deck, .060 over. Not married to it.
4. Would like to run against a buddy’s 392 challenger someday, and the calculator I ran it through showed me needing 450 to win, but 400 would be pretty close. 13 in the quarter would be pretty sweet if I can get there and still be streetable.
5. Budget. Ideally, looking for 3k and under, total for the engine, but can squeak up to around 4.5k if I dump onto credit cards.
Now, here’s another wrinkle. Just found a stock 70 340 that needs carb, water pump, new seals (from sitting), pulleys and accessories for 3k. I figure that with a 6-pack setup and headers would get me around 360 horses.
1. Car will be a weekend warrior (cruising to local shows, maybe hit the strip once or twice a year, maybe a longer road-trip once a year).
2. Definitely want it to not be a slouch in stoplight to stoplight, and don’t give a damn about gas mileage. Figure on running 93 octane all the time.
3. The 400 hp number was pulled after seeing the articles on that budget build in the magazines, and finding a 318 that already has the zero deck, .060 over. Not married to it.
4. Would like to run against a buddy’s 392 challenger someday, and the calculator I ran it through showed me needing 450 to win, but 400 would be pretty close. 13 in the quarter would be pretty sweet if I can get there and still be streetable.
5. Budget. Ideally, looking for 3k and under, total for the engine, but can squeak up to around 4.5k if I dump onto credit cards.
Now, here’s another wrinkle. Just found a stock 70 340 that needs carb, water pump, new seals (from sitting), pulleys and accessories for 3k. I figure that with a 6-pack setup and headers would get me around 360 horses.
a six pack setup will cost you another 3k though...
BTW.. don't take the 318 bashing in the thread as attacks or anything.. this happens every time a 318 is mentioned and literally 95% of us are just having fun with it at this point
as for a six-pack leave them for the old men with giant wallets that polish their cars at shows... a good 4bbl setup will get you what you want and for 1/10th the price if you find a good used intake. plus less hassles and setup ****..
Does your car already have a V8 ? What rear end ? Gears ? How much is the 318 short block ? You have any performance parts already to work with?
With your budget and depends where your car is at engine wise, I'd worry more about getting a decent foundation running and driving you can build upon, maybe find a running magnum the you can add headers 4bbl regrind cam stall with gears etc..
Everything doesn't have to be done from day one, you can build over time.
PRH
Well-Known Member
Does that $3k include having to buy an intake/carb/distributor/headers?
If the $3k is used up on the engine, what’s left for a converter and gears?
Frankly, $3k doesn’t get you very far in an engine build these days.
What’s the price for the 318 short block?
PRH
Well-Known Member
That’s just silly……… and a waste of a good 360.
A 318 is perfectly suitable for 150hp
Exjouster
Well-Known Member
Car is currently a 225/6, Clifford 6=8 4 bbl setup, 7.25 rear, 3.91 gears, 28” tires. Have a small block 904 to go with the new build. Other than that, starting at scratch, and around here, finding 340s or 360’s (complete) are like finding a leprechaun.
Wish I had the scratch to but a nice Blue-Print 408/727 stroker combination for the car and have warranties and everything nice and new, but there’s just no way I can swing 16 grand….so unless I find a philanthropist that wants to see that happen for me, it’s grinding away at overtime and driving Lyft on the side to scrape something together. Add to that, I’ve never built an engine before, and hoping I can manage the swap with limited space, tools and experience.
Exjouster
Well-Known Member
I know the rear won’t handle much, but if I baby it, it’ll get through until I can afford an 8.75
just my .02 as someone that has built a "Budget" small block.. i used a used bottom end and still ended up well over 3k into it without doing anything crazy...
on your budget i would seriously comb FB market place and get a 440+trans which you can do for under 1k still easily, hit your power easily and have a BB a-body which is always cool... plus you will have spare money to replace that rear.. a 7.25 even babied is going to spew its guts out.
I have seen running 440s+trans here a few times this year for 700ish.. and 400hp out of a 440 is basically a given.
not trying to change your mind.. but anytime you figure a job is 3k it will be 5k.. that's just life.
on your budget i would seriously comb FB market place and get a 440+trans which you can do for under 1k still easily, hit your power easily and have a BB a-body which is always cool... plus you will have spare money to replace that rear.. a 7.25 even babied is going to spew its guts out.
I have seen running 440s+trans here a few times this year for 700ish.. and 400hp out of a 440 is basically a given.
not trying to change your mind.. but anytime you figure a job is 3k it will be 5k.. that's just life.
What do you think you could get that 318 short block for ? If pretty cheap, could do Speedmaster top end with something like a xe268h cam specs on that 328 short block might be a little shy of 400 hp but still give you decent performance especially with a stall.
If not could do a zero deck 360 or even 408, even if you have to run less than ideal top end and replace that down the road. As long you have a good short block swapping top ends for more power ain't that big of deal, especially if planned right (pistons).
If not could do a zero deck 360 or even 408, even if you have to run less than ideal top end and replace that down the road. As long you have a good short block swapping top ends for more power ain't that big of deal, especially if planned right (pistons).
Just looked at MP near you cause i don't know how things are in florida.. there is a complete 400 for $550 which means $450.. (i prefer a 400 to a 440 but i'm nuts) a trans would be 250-350.. leaving a lot of budget..
What's really nuts is a 8 3/4 742 casing sure-grip for $350 though... that bastard is 800-1000 near me.
What's really nuts is a 8 3/4 742 casing sure-grip for $350 though... that bastard is 800-1000 near me.
Ant
Well-Known Member
There is the cool factor to having a 340. I will say this, if it's a non running engine, don't be surprised if it needs 2000 dollars worth of machine shop work. That goes for any small block LA, they are getting older and older.
It's a dice roll, but your chances are better if you can see it run or really know how good it is internally.
Ant
Well-Known Member
You are basically starting out just like my project.
You will need to do lots of research and parts hunting, maybe even find a parts car. My advice is, make what you have in the car now work really good and enjoy it until you think you have everything necessary to do the complete engine swap. If anyone tells you that you should start taking apart a perfectly good working car in preparation before you have absolutely everything ready, those people are re***ded.
mygasser
Well-Known Member
agreed, if the 'tuned' 6 runs well i'd spend money on the rear end, front brakes and suspension before thinking about the motor swap. re the rear end have a look at ford exploder axles. 31 spline shafts, lsd and disc brakes are stock. cut the casing long side to swap in a second short shaft (cheap as chips from rock auto) and it's almost exactly the same width as an 'a' body 8 3/4. it's a common swap that's well documented on here.
once the car's built for a more powerful motor then save to build one right, once.
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
A single Holley is hard enough to keep in tune let alone 3.
I should red X this but it’s pretty funny so I’ll pass this time lol.
Ant
Well-Known Member
In my opinion, leave the stock factory brakes, unless the car is used for road racing or something. As for the rear end, it needs to be the easiest rear to deal with when it comes to replace parts in my opinion. That means no weirdness like having a different bolt circle than the front hubs or having to remember which ford exploder the brake setup it's from. That is how I'm mostly doing my car, so I can have a better chance of finding the correct service parts by keeping them in the similar year and in the family of the same ish models. These are just my opinions, people can set things up anyway they want.
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You want an all around car. Long trips mean you won't find 93 octane gas everywhere. If you get the 318 short block you need to figure the compression to run on the octane gas you will use. Even stock 360 heads and a decent cam on a zero deck 318 short block with 3.91 gears will blow your mind after running a /6. Just build a strong, reliable High Performance car and work all the kinks out. You can always spend more later if you really get the bug. Forget 400 hp and racing a 392 Challenger, those goals will just make for a miserable driving car.
Dartswinger70
Well-Known Member
3 grand if it runs and no smoke is about right. That's a fair deal.
P.S. you are talking 340 I like where this thread ended up...
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
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AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
- Joined
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What the hell good is power at 6200, on the street?
Been there done that, with a 360, any manual trans/any rear gear; it's just a bad idea for a streeter especially one that runs, in my case, 3.55s; where 6200 was 73mph in Second gear, whereas, 60 was 5100. See, I needed power from between 55mph@4700 to 60mph@5100, and not 73@6200.
To properly make use of peak power at 6200 at 60mph in Second gear(M/T), requires 4.30s, which drives the cruize rpm up to 65=3500. I tried it and it sucked.
and that, with a 360.
I dropped 22 degrees off the cam, in a heartbeat, from 292 to 270, and then I had a real nice streeter.
So, from my experience; I can confidently aver that if, you're gonna run a small engine with a big cam, yur gonna need more that 3 or 4 gears, so you can put translate the high-rpm power, down to a favorable road speed, and with a streeter, there is no good street gear combination of auto-trans nor gears, that will put a 6200 rpm at 60 mph; well unless, I suppose, you figure 5.13s is good.
And yes I tried those.
And besides all that, just try and get the 318's SCR up to where that 6200rpm cam, doesn't fall on it's face at low-rpm. Now you need a ~3500rpm stall, just to get off the line ......... with street gears.
Finally, AFAIK, there are NO street-friendly hi-compression pistons made for a big-port headed 318 with a 6200rpm cam. At 900 ft elevation you're looking at needing
1) over 10.3 to get 165psi, for iron heads and the bottom end will be barely better than the stock 8/1 engine, thus requiring a much higher stall. or
2) over 11.2, to get 185psi, for alloy heads, with a barely decent bottom end.
Let me reiterate, I am NOT a 318 hater.
Go get you
1) some custom hi-compression 318 pistons
2) fancy alloy heads
3) a big roller cam
4) marry them appropriately
5) hang a big hi stall on the back
6) with a modified to survive transmission,
7) 5 series gears, and
8) you gotta have a Traction aid
9) and big sticky tires
10) and probably a roll cage
11) then go have some fun.
But just try running that in a car, that you want to drive more than just down to the 7-Eleven once a week.
With any SBM/A-body Street-combination,
The first problem is gonna be tires. We all have the same limited tires to work with, and the same tough time getting traction.
The Second is Hiway cruizing, which dictates which trans is to be used and the rear gearing. If you can't afford an overdrive, this is gonna put a severe handicap on your small-engine/big cam combo.
Thirdly will be the starter gear. The less bottom end power that a given engine makes, the more important the gearing becomes. or the stall.
Getting these three synchronized to your engine is paramount. Get it right and the combo will be immensely satisfying. Get it wrong and it could be immensely disappointing.
If you get it right, a 300hp streeter, is more than enough to satisfy.
If it was me, I would concentrate more on the Combo, than on any particular horsepower number.
Been there done that, with a 360, any manual trans/any rear gear; it's just a bad idea for a streeter especially one that runs, in my case, 3.55s; where 6200 was 73mph in Second gear, whereas, 60 was 5100. See, I needed power from between 55mph@4700 to 60mph@5100, and not 73@6200.
To properly make use of peak power at 6200 at 60mph in Second gear(M/T), requires 4.30s, which drives the cruize rpm up to 65=3500. I tried it and it sucked.
and that, with a 360.
I dropped 22 degrees off the cam, in a heartbeat, from 292 to 270, and then I had a real nice streeter.
So, from my experience; I can confidently aver that if, you're gonna run a small engine with a big cam, yur gonna need more that 3 or 4 gears, so you can put translate the high-rpm power, down to a favorable road speed, and with a streeter, there is no good street gear combination of auto-trans nor gears, that will put a 6200 rpm at 60 mph; well unless, I suppose, you figure 5.13s is good.
And yes I tried those.
And besides all that, just try and get the 318's SCR up to where that 6200rpm cam, doesn't fall on it's face at low-rpm. Now you need a ~3500rpm stall, just to get off the line ......... with street gears.
Finally, AFAIK, there are NO street-friendly hi-compression pistons made for a big-port headed 318 with a 6200rpm cam. At 900 ft elevation you're looking at needing
1) over 10.3 to get 165psi, for iron heads and the bottom end will be barely better than the stock 8/1 engine, thus requiring a much higher stall. or
2) over 11.2, to get 185psi, for alloy heads, with a barely decent bottom end.
Let me reiterate, I am NOT a 318 hater.
Go get you
1) some custom hi-compression 318 pistons
2) fancy alloy heads
3) a big roller cam
4) marry them appropriately
5) hang a big hi stall on the back
6) with a modified to survive transmission,
7) 5 series gears, and
8) you gotta have a Traction aid
9) and big sticky tires
10) and probably a roll cage
11) then go have some fun.
But just try running that in a car, that you want to drive more than just down to the 7-Eleven once a week.
With any SBM/A-body Street-combination,
The first problem is gonna be tires. We all have the same limited tires to work with, and the same tough time getting traction.
The Second is Hiway cruizing, which dictates which trans is to be used and the rear gearing. If you can't afford an overdrive, this is gonna put a severe handicap on your small-engine/big cam combo.
Thirdly will be the starter gear. The less bottom end power that a given engine makes, the more important the gearing becomes. or the stall.
Getting these three synchronized to your engine is paramount. Get it right and the combo will be immensely satisfying. Get it wrong and it could be immensely disappointing.
If you get it right, a 300hp streeter, is more than enough to satisfy.
If it was me, I would concentrate more on the Combo, than on any particular horsepower number.
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