360 instal, going on 3 days, need help

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screeminDemon

screeminDemon

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I've managed to wrestle this engine down and into both front engine mounts, but still cannot get it to hook up with the 4-spd tranny. It remains with less than 1 inch gap between eng and tranny housing.

Tried jacking up the tranny, then the engine, the lowering, then more wrestling, then put tranny in gear, then in neutral, then wrestle some more and on and on....

Should I have the engine lifted just above the motor mounts to get it seated with tranny first? or should it be in the mounts then force to meet with tranny?

PS - I checked that tranny shaft fit in the pilot bearing before installation. Its a 71 demon
 
Howdy neighbor, there should be no forcing involved. Are you having an issue with the input shaft going in the bearing? Did you use the clutch alignment tool? The engine usually goes in first, then level the transmission with a jack (or arms), and level the engine with the lift. Can you adjust the transmission fore and aft at the cross member? Try rocking it from underneath and swivel the transmission left and right while pushing. No need to put it in gear, out of gear etc.

Step away. Take a breath. Drink a beer.
 
Here is how I have always done it.

first, like you mentioned, make sure the shaft fits the pilot bearing....which you say you did so that should not be a problem.

also as mentioned make sure you used a clutch alignment tool so you know thats all lined up.

here is where I always do things different......

I always jack my trans up so the front is angled upward slightly.

then I lower the engine in and I get the engine lined up with the tranny and connected ...and THEN I lower the engine down onto the mounts.

I have done it the way you did before many times....by lowering the engine to the mounts and THEN lining the trans up....I just find it easier having the engine floating in free air when connecting the bell housing because I have freedom of movement and I can rock the engine back and forth/side to side a little if need be to aid in the alignment process.

also make sure all the alignment dowels are positioned with the alignment holes.
 
hey i've been down this road and found if you get two bolts about 3 or 4 inches long that fit in the bottom two holes of the bellhouseing and cut the head off screw them in the bellhousing slide the tranie on the boltes and bingo it slides right in hope this helps it works for me good luck.
 
Great tips guys, thanks for your advice. I'm positive and encouraged again. I'm gonna get it in, today I pray. You've given me some new ideas.

I used a cheap plastic clutch alignment tool and didnt feel real good about it. I may re-do that process, and then I'm gonna try the other ideas mentioned.

Will get back to you after I get that sucker in after work today.

PS - I think it is the shaft that doesn't want to get into the pilot bushing... but its probly that I'm not lining it up right
 
ZING69 said:
hey i've been down this road and found if you get two bolts about 3 or 4 inches long that fit in the bottom two holes of the bellhouseing and cut the head off screw them in the bellhousing slide the tranie on the boltes and bingo it slides right in hope this helps it works for me good luck.
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This is what I've done utilzing some all thread! Same idea. Works great keeps everything lined up. Though I made studs for all 4 bolt holes.
 
uh..not to pee in your corn flakes, but have you addressed the 360 balance issue? The 360 uses a cast crank and you will need the specially balanced 360 flywheel. If you get it together with a stock unbalanced flywheel (from a 340) it will vibrate like a La-Z-Boy massage recliner! Good luck!
 
We just had a really hard time getting the tranny and engine level with each other, but ultimately, the 2 were so close I decided to just drop in a few bolts and slowly tighten to draw it together.

I was a little nervous about doing that since I had a 1/8" gap at the top and almost 1" gap at the bottom. But I worked from side to side on the bottom bolts and slowly pulled it together.
(this was after I pulled the engine back out and did another check with the clutch alignment tool)

Normally I like to see the eng and tranny snap together befor I put any bolts in, but it just wasn't happening for me. I think because the way I had the chains on the engine, the angle was never right lowering it down to meet with tranny.

PS - yes I had machine shop drill out the flywheel to balance for 360. I thnk it was a 318 flywheel and they drilled it according to the specs I gave them for $25
 
ughhhh......hopefully everything works out fine.....drawing them together with the bolts is iffy.

if everything lined up and it was just being stubborn than cool......but if it forced things into whatever position and things are bound up ...you could be looking at some trouble.

could it be that the pilot bearing was not installed into the snout all the way and the shaft on the trans was resting on the edge of it? (causing the trans and block to not mate together smoothly)....and by drawing it in with the bolts it shoved the pilot bearing deeper into the snout.

I doubt thats the case....and I hope for your sake everything merged together as it should......but just keep that in the back of your mind if you hear any funny noises on start up or something.

anyhow, glad to hear you got it figured out! get to work on it and keep us all posted on the progress and when you get it running.
 
P.S.

you may want to put the trans in neutral and either with the starter (if it is hooked up already) or manually crank the engine over and make sure everything is spinning freely......better to double check now and make sure everything is good than it is to completely assemble the engine and accessories and what not and THEN find out there is a problem.
 
In case I missed something, is the crank drilled for a pilot bushing or are you using a roller bearing as I am? I've heard that if the crank is not drilled for a factory pilot bushing the input shaft needs to be trimmed about 1/2" to 3/4". The later engines used a roller bearing that fit into the torque converter hub as the cranks were not drilled through.
 
Drawing them together by tightening bolts is never a good idea:wack:.Did it pop in place or did you have to force all the way in?See if you can undo it and pop in by hand.
 
Oh man,.. I've seen the results of "drawn together" engine/bellhousings, and both times the result was a burnt out engine main "thrust" bearing,, and boy did the engine oil stink as it burned out the bearing... and one guy said it made a loud squeel on start-up..

hope your's is okay,, I have my fingers crossed
 
I hear you guys. Believe me I know that drawing it together by tightning bolts is never a good idea. I don't know what to expect, I hope its OK. I proceeded with it because it felt like the bolts were going in fairly easy, nothing felt really bad, so I kept going with it.

The input on my crankshaft was factory drilled right for a pilot bushing, and I test fitted it on the tranny shaft before installing it in the crank.

When I pulled the engine yesterday to re-check with clutch alignment tool, I could tell from the lube in the pilot bushing that the shaft had gone partially in (about 1/3 of inch), so that gave me the confidence to draw it in with bolts.

I will try hand cranking the engine this evening, and if it feels good, then I will say 360 hail mary's and go for the start this weekend, after I get everything else hooked up.
 
I would loosen every bellhousing bolt and if the tranny stays together to the motor I would re-tighten them up, say a pray and start it up/

If the tranny/motor starts to separate as the bolts are loosen, something is jamming up and that motor or trans needs to come out and see what is holding things up
 
I hand cranked it last night and it turned normally. That was a helluva relief. The compression felt good. I also put it in gear and it cranked well by hand.

Loosening the bolts and checking if it stays together - is another good idea. I will try that too. But right now I am feeling good about it.
 
Maybe your ok, I think I have done it before but the bolts tighten up fairly easy, the trans can shift while the engine is out

I would not turn the engine over much if it has a flat tapped cam, you are wiping that cam lube off the lobes. Best to set the timing close and fire it right up and leave it at 2,500 rpm or more for at least 20 mins.

I use a water hose to spray the rad down to keep the temps down, makes a little mess but cools off the engine
 
Well I got everything hooked up this weekend and tried starting it: it turned over but sounded sick... something is wrong. It cranks slow and there is some kind of metal dragging or scraping sound in the background. Its a noise I am unfamiliar with, and therefor worried.

I just re-read all of your posts and think that Dusterdude may be onto something. I thnk I need to split the tranny and engine and take another look at things. Sucks. It was alot of work getting it all done. I just pray I don't have to mess with the headers, they were a royal ***** and I'll never buy them again, unless I go Dougs.

Question: Could I have f'ckd anything up by cranking it over like that a few times?

Advice? Any is appreciated. Thanks
 
I'd pull the dust cover and starter, and inspect. If that doesn't show up anything-----

I'd pull the gearbox, and probably the clutch, too. Don't discount the possibility that

you have the disc in backwards

you have the wrong disc, or it's not compatible with the flywheel recess

(One of mine, even though obviously for Mopar, hit the flywheel bolts on the springs. Poor aftermarket disc design)
 
Every time I do a clutch on any car,I slide pilot bushing on first to check fit and the I slid the clutch disc to check if it slides easy.I have had more than one clutch disc with a burr in one of the splines that was easy repaired with a file or simple cleaned up after sliding the disc on and off.
Many ,many years ago,I tried and tried to get a tranny to go in till I pulled the clutch disc to find a little burr on a spline.

Ever since that one car it has been Common practice for me to check the disc and pilot bushing/bearing
By force the tranny on,I hope you at worst only bent the clutch disc.But like 67Dart273
said maybe your disc is on backwards and hitting your flywheel bolts.
Now that the motors in,pull the transmission...
The number one rule installing standards is alignment.
1. Clutch alignment
2.Tranny to engine alignment going in top to bottom and side to side and it should go right in.Try getting it aligned by jacking up or down the motor till it is aligned to your transmission on your jack.
Good Luck and keep us posted.
TXDart.
It is a lot easier for me to do them on a lift with a tranny jack that I can set to any angle to get my alignment perfect.I use to do it with floor jacks and even putting on my belly and man handling it in.
 
But the tranny jacks require the car to be up pretty high, when I used to do it with 4 jack stands, I had to slid the tranny out using a only big rag so it clear the frame.

I would leave the engine in and pull the trans out--or take the car--by tow--to your trans man-if you got one. They can do stuff on the hoist much easier and faster.

Yeah don't crank the engine too much, the cam lube is wiping off.

BTW--you did prime the engine with motor oil, correct?
 
dodge freak said:
BTW--you did prime the engine with motor oil, correct?
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You guys have given me some good stuff to think of and check out. Alignment, alignment, alignment - I think thats where I went wrong... but maybe its a burr on the spline (tranny shaft).... or lack of prime?

I did not prime the cylinders with motor oil first. Could it be that simple to solve? I applied alot of assembly lube to the cylinders when I was building so I figured it good enough...

I suppose its worth trying before I start ripping stuff apart.
 
I would say if you pulled it together with bolts, you have bent the clutch plate.
You are right the plasitc alignment tools are junk.
Or the machine shop did not bore the crank deep enough.
Find your self an old broke trans input shaft, or buy one from Brewers.
Mark it with the depth required and change the disk if any problems with alignment.
 
sireland67 said:
I would say if you pulled it together with bolts, you have bent the clutch plate.
QUOTE]

I will find out tomorrow after work. This eve I tried starting again after oilin the cyldrs but it still makes the same sound - like metal scraping metal. I threw a jack under the motor, disconnctd the rear trans bolts then the tranny housing to motor, but it didnt pop apart, in fact it stayed together after I loosend all the bolts.

I removed the flywheel cover and looked at the clutch operation when my wife pushed down the pedal, and it looked ok. Didnt see nothin wrong with the starter either. Also - I know the clutch disk went on the right way bcause it would have scraped if I put it on flipped.

Will keep you posted, those interested.
PS - I've also got a steady oil drip from the speedo cable connect on the gearbox now :)
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