69 340 problems

-
I'm starting to wonder if you accidently stopped at the diesel pump or jsut bought bad gas. I know you tryed to run off a gas jug before but maybe not long enough to get the bad out of the carb and now have bad fuel in the new carb.
You know you have spark if adjusting the timing effects how it turns over.
Fuel and spark are all thats needed. The quality of one or the other is your problem.
After 5 pages here and 200 plus spent there we should have found the fault by now.
I can't help but recall my uncle and his K car type Lebarron convertile (long time ago). He had it towed to the dealership 4 times and spent 3 times as much as you have. Electric fuel pump, fuel pump regulater, ECU. Problem was water in the gas the whole time.

I checked the fuel again. It is definately NOT diesel fuel. I also pulled a couple of spark plugs and there is fuel on them so I know we're getting fuel into the cylinders.
When I bought gas for the Dart, I put gas from the same pump at the same time in my 1990 Power Ram truck. The truck runs like a clock so the car should also.
Yesterday my wife cranked the engine over while I checked #2 plug wire for spark. It DID have a spark, but it seemed weak TO ME, and it also didn't seem to "fire" with every rotation of the engine. Maybe it does, but it didn't seem that way to me. I do realize there are 4 strokes to the cylinder cycle.
When you spoke about the quality of one or the other, I agree with you; the quality of the spark doesn't seem good..........TO ME. A second set of eyes would be helpful right about now.

George,
I have read this post for the first time and eventhough it is not my car and problem, I almost feel like it is.....you must be fustrated beyond belief!!!!! Everyone has already given you all the suggestion that I would give for you to try......

I guess I am just posting to say hang in there!!! It ran once, it will run again.... Don't let it win!!!! We are all rooting for you!

Thanks for the vote of confidence Haney! Appreciated.

I pulled off the valve covers and cranked the engine by jumping the starter relay. The valves are opening and closing like they should. Also the rocker arm shaft bolts are tight. I set the engine to TDC #1 and reinstalled the covers. Both valves on cylinder #1 are closed.
Then I removed the distributor from the engine. I grounded the body of the dist to my NEG battery post, and using my voltmeter, I connected the POS wire from the meter to the POS side of the battery, and the NEG wire from the meter to the single wire from the points. I then rotated the dist over by hand. As the points open & close the meter reads from 0 volts to battery voltage every time the points open & close. It APPEARS to me that the distributor is working correctly, and the points are set correctly. I don't have another condenser to try so I'll have to run out and buy one for a test.
In all the years I have been fooling with points distributors I have never seen a condenser fail, but I'll try replacing it anyway.

Any other places I can check?

Like I said in an earlier post, my wipers do not operate. I suspect a bad motor or possibly the wiring inside the motor.
On the bulkhead connector plug for the wiper motor are the wires that run to the transmission. Its a TQ727. I assume these wires are for the reverse lights and the neutral safety switch. The reverse lights work, and, because the starter motor turns the engine over, I assume the neutral safety switch is working correctly. Would you all agree??

Thanks again for the help. I aint givin up until it runs. I am embarrassed in front of my whole family that I can restore this car from a pile of parts and have it literally look like a new car, but I can't figure out why it won't start.

Thanks for helping.

George
 
If you have a volt meter, check primary resistance at the coil. touch each pos and neg posts with the tips on the vm. You should get a reading. Then check secondary resistance by touching either pos or neg post and the inside of the coil tower terminal. you should get a reading the fsm has the range of ohms to look for.
 
With the dist removed from the engine, I turned the key ON, and pulled the coil wire from the cap. I held the other end of the coil wire near the engine block, and spun the distributor over by hand. The spark is bright and strong. I reassembled the car, and made sure the dist is installed correctly. The car TRIES to start, but just will not run. There is fuel getting into the engine. It has spark AND fuel but it refuses to start.
I doubt there is a problem with the dist now that I have done these tests.
I am about to give up with this piece a ****. I have had it.
Thanks for all the help anyway.

George
 
No, but I have power to both sides of it, and there is 7 volts at the POS side of the coil with the key on.
When I ran a wire from the POS battery terminal to the POS side of the coil, doesn't that eliminate that part of the equasion??

George
 
No, but I have power to both sides of it, and there is 7 volts at the POS side of the coil with the key on.
When I ran a wire from the POS battery terminal to the POS side of the coil, doesn't that eliminate that part of the equasion??

George

Yes it does George, you are bypassing the ballast resistor with the jumper wire.

Are the valve covers still off? Start from the beginning if they are meaning, put the crank at #1 TDC (or you could actually put it at 10 deg. before TDC) then double check that the rocker arms are loose on #1 cyl. Then double check the rotor is pointing to #1 in the cap and the points are just ready to crack open in the direction of rotation. I'm just trying to make sure your not 180 deg. off on the dist.

Wish I lived closer. I like this kind of shyte! KEEP SMILING
 
No, but I have power to both sides of it, and there is 7 volts at the POS side of the coil with the key on.
When I ran a wire from the POS battery terminal to the POS side of the coil, doesn't that eliminate that part of the equasion??

George

Yeah, I just read something about the car wanting to start when you released the key and that made me think the resistor was then back in the circuit.
 
Sometimes we work all around the problem and not fix it ,like we cant see the forrest for the trees. For instance, tinker with a carb for hours and never noticed it loose from the intake and sucking air underneath.
Boy, did this bring back memories! Years ago I put a new intake on my old 340 and couldn't get it running good for anything. The intake had been drilled for multiple carb mounting bolt patterns and one of the holes I wasn't using for my Holley had been drilled through into a runner. That sucker had the biggest vacuum leak, but you couldn't hear it without the good old rubber hose 'stethascope' stuck in your ear.
 
George,
I have been thinking about this today A LOT since reading your post.... When this whole mess started your car was sitting there running and had been running well. Then it just died! There was no huge puff of smoke, knocking or anything to indicate that you had a huge break. You have checked timing and are sure it is in time and didn't jump or break a chain, and now you are sure you are getting fuel, it HAS to be electrical. You also have checked the distributor now three ways from Sunday and have not found anything. You also indicated that it tried to start so I would rule out the condenser. I have seen many of these bad, but EVERY time I have seen one of these bad, it would not even TRY to start. However, they are cheap parts. Might be worth a swap. I would have to say now that maybe it is in the start / run circuit. I had a ram charger once that did this but it was electronic ignition. With the key in the START position, it would loose power to the coil but had power when the key was in the run position. So as you cranked it would just crank, crank, crank then as you started to let off on the key to quit cranking it would hit a time or two.... It was the ECU. Are you sure that you have power to everything while cranking?
 
Yes it does George, you are bypassing the ballast resistor with the jumper wire.

Are the valve covers still off? Start from the beginning if they are meaning, put the crank at #1 TDC (or you could actually put it at 10 deg. before TDC) then double check that the rocker arms are loose on #1 cyl. Then double check the rotor is pointing to #1 in the cap and the points are just ready to crack open in the direction of rotation. I'm just trying to make sure your not 180 deg. off on the dist.

Wish I lived closer. I like this kind of shyte! KEEP SMILING

I set the balancer at 0 when I had the covers off. Both valves for cyl #1 were closed. The tip of the rotor is pointing towards the #1 plug wire on the cap.
I wish you lived closer too; I HATE this ****!

George,
I have been thinking about this today A LOT since reading your post.... When this whole mess started your car was sitting there running and had been running well. Then it just died! There was no huge puff of smoke, knocking or anything to indicate that you had a huge break. You have checked timing and are sure it is in time and didn't jump or break a chain, and now you are sure you are getting fuel, it HAS to be electrical. You also have checked the distributor now three ways from Sunday and have not found anything. You also indicated that it tried to start so I would rule out the condenser. I have seen many of these bad, but EVERY time I have seen one of these bad, it would not even TRY to start. However, they are cheap parts. Might be worth a swap. I would have to say now that maybe it is in the start / run circuit. I had a ram charger once that did this but it was electronic ignition. With the key in the START position, it would loose power to the coil but had power when the key was in the run position. So as you cranked it would just crank, crank, crank then as you started to let off on the key to quit cranking it would hit a time or two.... It was the ECU. Are you sure that you have power to everything while cranking?
Haney,
No smoke, no noise, had 60-70 PSI oil pressure, no pops, bangs or farts, then all of a sudden it stumbled and died. As if someone had covered the carb with their hand until the engine stopped. That was almost 3 weeks ago. Car hasn't run since. I asked 2 different people with Mopar knowledge to come here and please have a look. Neither were able to make it.
I replaced the timing chain, but the original chain was still on the correct teeth. The timing marks for the upper and lower gears were still in line.
Only thing I have left to do is put in the reman distributor that I will pay $70 for tomorrow. I KNOW the car won't start after I install it. Once that is done, I don't know where else to turn.

I cleaned the distributor hold-down clamp and the area where the bolt passes through to ensure a good ground. Made no difference.

I removed my original dated wiper motor that didn't work, and replaced it with a 1972 model unit that works. I now have wipers, but it didn't change anything with regard to the car starting. The reverse lights/neutral safety switch work, apparently. Along with the wiper wiring are 2 wires for the trans. I thought maybe somehow the wipers not working may have effected the start/run circuit, but no go.

The part that kills me is I am on vacation this week. I was going to finish the exhaust, have the front end aligned, fix the wipers and get it registered/insured this week so I can DRIVE it. There is a show this Friday night very close to my house and I wanted to take the car there. I guess the dependable Ram Force One Power Ram will have to take us....again.
All that is left now is half the exhaust and the alignment before I can take it to DMV for my plates. Tomorrow is Friday, and now there isn't enough time left to get this done this week.
I am SO VERY pissed off at this car that I am thinking of selling it unfinished and buying another car. Might not be a Mopar after all this pain, I'm sorry to say. If the sellers of the yellow 67 or the green 69 in our classified section were closer to CT, I would trade them even just to get it out of here. Thats how pissed I am at the whole thing. Both of those cars look fantastic, and they both run.

I'm sorry to be such a bummer, I know this site isn't like that. You guys are always so happy and friendly here. It's just that I am at the end of my rope, and I have no where else to turn in an attempt to rectify the problem. You guys have gone WAY out of your way to help me.

Ya know, my late brother Gary Romano always used to say "Watch out for the cars that are kinda ugly. The pretty ones never run worth a ****, but the ugly ones will blow your doors off". He is right as far as this 69 Swinger is concerned. It looks SWEET! But it is worthless to me right now. My brother had a red 69 Swinger 340 when I was a kid, and it ran like a bear! It ran 11's at Connecticut Dragway back in the 70's. I bet if the Good Lord didn't take him from us, he could get it running for me. I guess God had a Mopar that wouldn't start too! :D

Thanks for trying to help. Thanks for letting me rant and blow off some steam, and most of all, thank you for allowing me to be a part of this forum, even though I never really am able to help others the way I have been helped since I joined almost a year ago. I just don't have the experience. You guys are the very best of the best in my opinion, and for that, I am greatful. If you ever need advice on an old Corvette, I am your guy. Please feel free to contact me if ever there is anything I can do for you, but when it comes to these old Mopars, I am out in left field.

I am going to let the car sit right where it is. It no longer brings me happiness. Every time I look at it, I feel sick to my stomach. There is nothing else I can do with it right now.
If anyone is in the area, and can spare an hour or two to take a look at this thing, please PM me, and I will give you my address. I will even supply lunch or dinner, and all the coffee you can drink.

George
 
Do you have good grounds, battery to engine and engine to firewall? It sounds like you`ve covered everything : fuel- yes, air- yes, valve timing- yes, compression- yes, spark- yes but weak. Try pm`ing Moper , he`s great at internet troubleshooting. See if he will read this thread and can give you some insight. There must be something simple but critical that we`ve all overlooked.
 
Don,t give up George maybe just take a break from it right now.I have not driven my car for 7 weeks do to wrong axels to a steel bellhousing that has to be modified so I can push my clutch in.So take a break from it because your problem will be solved,and it will be something simple.It is very hard to work on a car when your not there hands on.Everybody here is trying to help.I am also new to mopar.It sure is different then Chevy eh.I learned a valuble lesson.Work on car in the winter when you can,t drive it because I waited all winter to drive it,now I,ve wasted cruisin time to change things.Have patience you will pervail.Don,t sell it because of frustration.My 2 cents that I can barely rub together now.
 
I checked the ground with my dwell meter. Has bat voltage at the engine block, and on the car body, as well as the distributor body.

Geo
 
Well the first thing I would do is eliminate everything prior to the fuel pump. Disconnect the line at the inlet side of the pump. Before you do that release any pressure in the tank and have something handy to plug the rubber hose. Hookup a line from the pump to a gas can with fresh gas and fire it up. If it's back to normal then the problem is from there back, perhaps a line sucking air. At least you would know which end of the car to work on.
 
Are you still running your Corvette coil? When did you switch over to it? You may want to switch back to your Mopar coil. It is made to run on 6v unlike the 12v Corvette coil. As long as we're grasping at straws, it's worth a shot.
 
You say the car tries to start when you let off of the key and put it in the run mode? I had this problem with my car. I had something wrong in my switch that wasn't sending power to anything but the starter in the start mode. Put the key in the run mode then jump your selonoid. It worked on mine hope this helps. If it works their is something wrong with your switch, Mine had a pushbutton ignition on it now so its fixed. Probably won't work but its an easy try. Good luck Rick
 
Are you still running your Corvette coil? When did you switch over to it? You may want to switch back to your Mopar coil. It is made to run on 6v unlike the 12v Corvette coil. As long as we're grasping at straws, it's worth a shot.
No, Grump. I put that Delco coil on it just to see if that was the trouble. Once I knew that wasn't the trouble, I removed it and reconnected my Mopar coil.
You say the car tries to start when you let off of the key and put it in the run mode? I had this problem with my car. I had something wrong in my switch that wasn't sending power to anything but the starter in the start mode. Put the key in the run mode then jump your selonoid. It worked on mine hope this helps. If it works their is something wrong with your switch, Mine had a pushbutton ignition on it now so its fixed. Probably won't work but its an easy try. Good luck Rick
I just ran out to the garage and tried it your way Rick. Turned the key to run, and jumped the starter relay with a screwdriver. No start.

George
 
had two instances in the past #1 1968 dart gts 4 sd ,turned out to be very small crack in dist cap,#2 time on 1973 duster 340 ended up being the ballast reistor on fire wall,just my 2 cents.Hope all works out.jetman
 
Longgone-
I did this the other day, and it did spark, but it appeared to be a weak spark to me.
I tried it directly off the coil today and it was a nice bright spark. The spark at the plug the other day could have been OK, and just appeared to be weak, but I can't be sure now. I'll have to do it again tomorrow.

I replaced the dist cap with another used one I have and it made no difference at all.

I also bypassed the ballast resistor via a power wire from the battery directly to the coil. Made no difference.

George
 
George, when you change your dist. try and see if the oil pump,dist.drive is sloppy with a straight blade screwdriver. It will only take a minute.
Are you sure the timing is right? It's easy to get it messed up.
When I rebuilt my 273,I had a rebuilt starter on my car and when I tried to start it , the same problem as you. Turns out the starter had a
dead short and was draing the battery very quickley and causing a very week spark. But when I turned the dist. by hand, the plugs had a big spark.
 
George, just read your post about the spark test at the coil today. If you have good spark at the coil we just have to figure out why it ain't making it to the plugs. Spark at the coil also means the points, the ballast, and the rest of the electrics are doing their job. The only things that can diminish spark energy between the coil and the plugs are the coil wire, rotor, plug wires, and the distributor cap. We can eliminate the cap since you have tried 2 different ones with no effect. Doubt that 8 plug wires would go bad at the same time.
 
Have you installed new plugs and condenser? A shot of ether and new plugs should make even a weak spark fire something. What is your dwell as you crank the engine? Are the points gapped too wide?
 
To rule out the fuel problem, put a fuel pressure guage on a tee to the carb line. That way you can monitor the fuel pressure while engine is cranking and running. I had the same problem with a 340 a while back, it took the press guage to verify a plugged fuel line and suction sock. When I blew air back thru the line, it started up again but plugged up quickly. The tank was full of rust and the suction sock was clogged.
 
I glossed over the whole thread again as a refresher. It's getting fuel, but how good is the fuel? Not sure if you've tried running from known good fuel (gasoline is less dense than water, so if there's a bunch of condensation or something of the sort it'll pick up a crappy mixture and make you crazy). Disconnecting the tank-to-pump hose and running a temporary line from a known good can of gas to the pump is one way that has been suggested. I usually get lazy and just dump about 3 tablespoons through the venturis into the plenum.

If it lights up on the surrogate fuel supply, that takes a bunch of other stuff out of the equation.

I'm just thinking that having swapped ignition parts, carb and such, a big common link is between the gas cap and the carb.
 
-
Back
Top