71 Dart get 408/ Trick Flow Heads....

[yellow rose]

This is why I’m sending my new and lifter to 300 Below for cryo treatment. I also will be pulling the inners. Never, ever did it in my life but last year when lead69 and I lost that cam I said never again. Plus, I use Torco or Driven break in oil and Torco or Driven engine oil. And I’ll be pulling the inners.

When the stroker with the W2’s go together it’s getting a roller so I can get the lift I want and I don’t have to screw around with it.

 

[K.O. SWINGER]

Man that cam Carnage really sucks! I feel for you man. Hang in there I'm sure you'll get it worked out but it shouldn't be so hard right? I am also a little skeptic of the super fast rate flat tap cams failures just seem to go up exponentially with those profiles.

 

[fishmens67]

I'm skeptic of the varying 2500 rpm break- in procedure manufactures recommend now. lol
old school 70's was a constant 1500 rpm. it would seem a fast rate lobe would benefit from a lower rpm break-in
I don't stray to far from what has worked in the past.

 

[rumblefish360]

I have stayed away from those fast rate lobes for that reason.
Lots of combo’s dont even need/ benefit from them according to a certain cam guru i know

Oh! Something I have said ever so often!
But then there was that guy suggesting them for EVERY single last build question post......

I’m all for getting as much lift as you can so long the head supports the flow. It is not a must... but it’ll help.

 

[K.O. SWINGER]

I'll start out by saying obviously I am no cam guru it just seems like it takes an awful lot of spring pressure to control those cams, and seems to be just about on the ragged edge of what a flat tap can handle. If you really need that extra 25 or 30 horse well okay but me I rather step back a little bit in hopes of longevity. But like I said my stuff's pretty mild at about maximum 350 lb on the nose and is just Street strip stuff but if everything's right that seems to work pretty well for me.

 

[12many]

I don't want to start an oil debate or get into the credentials or legitimacy of someone but I saw mention of this poster in particular over on Speed-Talk (as well as on many other forums) who supposedly has done extensive testing and research on the subject here and with a quick read seems to make some sense, or is interesting at the least, gotta scroll down a bit to get to the more relevant posts: Don Terrill’s Speed-Talk - Login 540 RAT - Tech Facts, NOT Myths

 

[fishmens67]

I don't want to start an oil debate or get into the credentials or legitimacy of someone but I saw mention of this poster in particular over on Speed-Talk (as well as on many other forums) who supposedly has done extensive testing and research on the subject here and with a quick read seems to make some sense, or is interesting at the least, gotta scroll down a bit to get to the more relevant posts: Don Terrill’s Speed-Talk - Login 540 RAT - Tech Facts, NOT Myths

Hum, I think I know that guy. lol
I tend to agree with his view on engine and cam break-in . my dad and gramps always said once an engine reaches operating temp it's broke- in. I disagree with his view on STP and oil additives though.
I've dump a can of STP in every big block I've ever had. and will continue. lol
VR1 and a jug of STP.

 

[fishmens67]

Tony are you going to call Hughes ?

 

[70aarcuda]

So they can call me an idiot....LOL....No I will not buy their camshafts anymore...

I did not remove the inner spring...and that is what they are going to say....you did not remove the inner spring...

 

[fishmens67]

Yea I get that. lol
It's been a few years since I chatted with Tim, he was always pretty cool.
Now the other guy, well........ lol

 

[12many]

Hum, I think I know that guy. lol
I tend to agree with his view on engine and cam break-in . my dad and gramps always said once an engine reaches operating temp it's broke- in. I disagree with his view on STP and oil additives though.
I've dump a can of STP in every big block I've ever had. and will continue. lol
VR1 and a jug of STP.

Interesting reading regarding break-in for sure. I’ve removed the inner springs, used the cam lube supplied (different than what I’m used to seeing for cam lube), using Isky Rev Lube on all else, Penn Grade oil, do the routine. I’ve stressed myself out enough over all this crap it’s just not much fun atm, it’s time to get it over with

 

[B3422w5]

I'll start out by saying obviously I am no cam guru it just seems like it takes an awful lot of spring pressure to control those cams, and seems to be just about on the ragged edge of what a flat tap can handle. If you really need that extra 25 or 30 horse well okay but me I rather step back a little bit in hopes of longevity. But like I said my stuff's pretty mild at about maximum 350 lb on the nose and is just Street strip stuff but if everything's right that seems to work pretty well for me.

not that kind of horsepower difference. Barely that much( if even that much) going to a roller

 

[rumblefish360]

I'll start out by saying obviously I am no cam guru it just seems like it takes an awful lot of spring pressure to control those cams, and seems to be just about on the ragged edge of what a flat tap can handle. If you really need that extra 25 or 30 horse well okay but me I rather step back a little bit in hopes of longevity. But like I said my stuff's pretty mild at about maximum 350 lb on the nose and is just Street strip stuff but if everything's right that seems to work pretty well for me.

Exactly..... bingo!

 

[Brian Hafliger]

I’m not an advocate of “budget oriented” rockers for any build, so whatever I would have used for rockers on a SFT cam myself, would be suitable (imo) for a mild easy-on-parts SR cam.
So, that wouldn’t be an added expense if I were building it.
Something along the lines of the old Crane golds are fine for that type of build.

Yeah...except they aren't available anymore...

 

[9secRR]

I have the same cam in my 360. I removed the inner springs and had no problems.

 

[PRH]

Yeah...except they aren't available anymore...

Well, imo there are rockers “along the lines” of Crane golds available.

For a mild roller I’d have no problems running the Mancini/HS made rockers, or the Hughes rockers.

The Mancini rockers are as “budget” as I go.

 

[PRH]

What I tell people when the question about soft springing comes up is.......

If you don’t do it, and it eats the cam....... it’s just shame on you.

The bottom line is this....... not every Hughes 6468 SB cam fails.
So, how different are the cam break in procedures for the ones that are living vs the ones that arent?

If I’m doing the motor here and it’s getting a FT cam that needs a dual spring for valvetrain control....... it gets broken in with the inners removed.

 

[12many]

What I tell people when the question about soft springing comes up is.......

If you don’t do it, and it eats the cam....... it’s just shame on you.

The bottom line is this....... not every Hughes 6468 SB cam fails.
So, how different are the cam break in procedures for the ones that are living vs the ones that arent?

If I’m doing the motor here and it’s getting a FT cam that needs a dual spring for valvetrain control....... it gets broken in with the inners removed.

The only reason I personally would even consider (which I wouldn’t) not removing the inners was that I was letting my laziness get the better of me. I can’t think of any other reason otherwise.

 

[rumblefish360]

TRUE! (While LMAO!) It’s just not goona happen.
For sure it is a PIA. So I doubled down and built a test engine run stand.

 

[70aarcuda]

Actually I ordered a engine run stand.....ordered the Easy Run Engine Stand.....back on Jan 4....still waiting...they are weeks...behind due to supplier delays.....

Did a camshaft inventory this morning....I got 5 new MP590 cams...I used MP590 with lifters....LOL

The 360 will be running tomorrow..

 

[12many]

TRUE! (While LMAO!) It’s just not goona happen.
For sure it is a PIA. So I doubled down and built a test engine run stand.
View attachment 1715711368

Nice. I chopped up a set of valve covers to install during run in so I can see what’s up without oil overflowing and splattering all over the place. If anyone hasn’t already pre- checked oil delivery and drain back with these TF’s (just prelubing with a drill) you’ll soon find out that the oil doesn’t drain back as fast as the oem heads, at least not with cold 30 weight. My engine sits at an exaggerated angle compared to the cars everyone has, so the oil pools up at the rear of the heads quickly and there is no way possible to run the engine without oil overflowing and making a mess with no covers. Hopefully these will prevent an out of control mess

 

[justinp61]

The two Hughes cams I had didn't fail but were porous around the nose, pitted sort of. IMHO neither cam would've been long for the world.

I did break them in with the inner springs so it's not like they failed on start up or shortly after.

 

[mopar65]

Nice. I chopped up a set of valve covers to install during run in so I can see what’s up without oil overflowing and splattering all over the place. If anyone hasn’t already pre- checked oil delivery and drain back with these TF’s (just prelubing with a drill) you’ll soon find out that the oil doesn’t drain back as fast as the oem heads, at least not with cold 30 weight. My engine sits at an exaggerated angle compared to the cars everyone has, so the oil pools up at the rear of the heads quickly and there is no way possible to run the engine without oil overflowing and making a mess with no covers. Hopefully these will prevent an out of control mess

View attachment 1715711700

View attachment 1715711703

I just placed the intake gaskets on my 96 dakota sport that has the trickfkow heads. I noticed the oil drain holes weren't very big. I am not doing it now. But was wondering if it wouldn't hurt to have the holes made bigger, the next time I have the heads off?

 

[Bewy]

Don't know anything about the fast rate Howards/Hughes cam lobes, buuuuut if they max out the total available rate of lift of the 0.904" lifter diameter, then they would need lifters that are not chamfered to work with those lobes. Using chamfered lifters would allow the edge of the lifter to 'dig in' to the lobe.

 

[12many]

I just placed the intake gaskets on my 96 dakota sport that has the trickfkow heads. I noticed the oil drain holes weren't very big. I am not doing it now. But was wondering if it wouldn't hurt to have the holes made bigger, the next time I have the heads off?

I’m thinking with hot oil drain back won’t be an issue, just with it cold. I tested (pre-prelubed) things to make sure I had oil reaching all and I had it over flowing quickly. Then it pooled at the rear for a while, had to take my finger and push it along to lower it. But like I said, my engine is more angled so it only exacerbates things