All Plugs Fouling on Right Bank

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Hmm i guess it could still be rich and have a stumble as well.
Get a buddy to stand behind your car. let the clutch out in first gear, so it's just idling down the road. them punch it!
IF Black comes out the tail pipe, you're probably still rich.
Now you said "The engine runs best when the idle adjust screws are full open (rich)." This tells me your two LEAN.
I agree with AJ, if there is holes drill in the butterflys, this could cause your problem as well!!!!
 
just look down the carb at the butterflys, you will see the small holes drilled if this mod has been done.
 
So where is the initial timing set?
 
Around 17 to 19* at about 850, then revved up to 2000-2300, I'm at 32*, with the vac can plugged. The distributor I think is bouncing it around a little.

Sounds like it could use a little more. I have my 351M at about 23 initial and 36 total. It loves it.
 
Are there any holes drilled through any of the butterfly plates? If yes, then they all need to be closed up and then go here;
AJ's guide to Transfer Port Synchronization


After that is done, reset the pump linkage, to initiate a stream at the slightest, most gentle throttle-arm movement.A stream not a dribble or a hesitation, and all gas no air!
What the T-port sync attempts to achieve is a synchronization of the transfer ports to what the engine needs.These transfer slots are your main low-speed transitioning circuit. The mixture screws that you can play with, just fine tune it for idling.These transfer slots are the only way to get fuel into the airstream until the airspeed through the boosters starts to pull fuel for the main metering circuit.They have to be timed pretty accurately.
If someone has drilled the plates for a big camshaft, this will totally mess up the sync. If the initial timing is too much, or too little, this may totally mess up the sync. If the butterflies are too far closed then the engine will go immediately lean on tip-in and stumble. If the butterflies are way too far open then idle vacuum may partially dry them up and tip-in will again be lean. And if they are just a little to far exposed then the engine will idle fat. It may just be rough, or it may have a miss, and messing with the mixture screws will give little to no relief.
But if there are no holes in any of the plates then the secondaries need to be closed up just short of sticking, and the brake-booster line clamped shut, the PCV proved correct for the application, and then the T-port sync still has to be performed! When done, un-clamp the booster line, and after a slight sag as the booster comes on line, the idle speed and quality should return to that pre-unclamping.
When all else fails, crank up the float level 1/16" and start capital-A,All, over.

Bolting on a new carb may or may not solve the condition, depending on what is causing the condition. So
the T-port sync is job one! Then cuz the butterflies may find a new setting, the pump-shot needs to be revisited.
Good luck!
 
You can tell where your engine wants the initial timing very simply. Keep advancing it until the idle does not increase anymore. Then back off a hair. As long as it does not ping there, that's what it wants. Of course, you may need to end up limiting the total, but that's a good way to find where the initial should be.
 
Thanks for your reply AJ, lots to think about. I don't recall transfer ports on the underside, I think they are more of an orifice. I'll pull the carb and check the throttle plate. The number on the carb shows it is a '67 273 CAP (smog) carb.

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You can tell where your engine wants the initial timing very simply. Keep advancing it until the idle does not increase anymore. Then back off a hair. As long as it does not ping there, that's what it wants. Of course, you may need to end up limiting the total, but that's a good way to find where the initial should be.
Thanks Rusty.
 
Oh there's T-ports all righteee.
The round holes are the idle dumps,er discharge ports. And if you didn't see the transfer slots, and you still don't, then I guarantee that that is your problem! A total lack of T-port sync
 
What do you mean by "it runs best with the mixture screws at full rich"?
 
While its idling, can you cover the carb with your hand and kill the motor ?
I haven't tried that. What would that indicate?

What do you mean by "it runs best with the mixture screws at full rich"?

That means the two idle mixture screws next to the pcv nipple are turned full counter clockwise, which is the richest setting.
 
I haven't tried that. What would that indicate?



That means the two idle mixture screws next to the pcv nipple are turned full counter clockwise, which is the richest setting.


Technically, it isn't richer, per se. It is allowing more of the air/fuel mixture into the system. To change the A/F ratio you have to either change the bleed (add more or less air) or the restrictions on the fuel side of the circuit.
 
Technically, it isn't richer, per se. It is allowing more of the air/fuel mixture into the system. To change the A/F ratio you have to either change the bleed (add more or less air) or the restrictions on the fuel side of the circuit.

It's a AFB/AVS Carter Carb. Air bleeds are kind a tough to do.
 
It's a AFB/AVS Carter Carb. Air bleeds are kind a tough to do.


Yup. But turning the mixture screws does not affect the air/fuel ratio. It just adds more or less. If you want to change the ratio, it requires a bleed change or a restricter change.

That's how some many guys end up out in the weeds with a Holley. They start changing bleeds and emulsion and then next thing you know, they start drinking to relax. Then it's a little hippie lettuce with the booze. Next thing you know, they are main lining, all because they got lost with an air bleed correction. See it happen many, many times. It's a sad road.
 
It does make it richer or leaner(turning the mixture screws(what the eng sees) but not the air fuel mix that is coming out next to the butterfly is set from the factory, and won't change.......with out mods as you have spoken of.
I consider myself well rehearsed around a holley, but not enough to go drilling out factory setting. not with out someone that knows what the f^&*()) they're doing standing over me as i did it!
 
Pulled the carb off tonight and having a beer toasting the Pres elect. I took these pics of the primary throttle plates. The t-slot is clearly visible. Using a 1/16" drill bit as a measuring gauge, the exposed t-slot is about half he diameter of the drill bit, so I think I've got about .030-.035" exposed. AJ, is this what you are referring to as t-port sync?
I also see a hole in each throttle valve, which differs than what the factory manual shows. Might this be causing a lean running problem? Remember, this is after an engine overhaul and carb rebuild.
And lastly, after pulling the carb and letting it drain into a pan, the gas came out clear, followed by a few dark drips (see photo). I siphoned pretty much all the gas out before I broke the engine in a few months ago. There was probably a little old gas left and now I'm probably down to the last gallon in the tank, might be running on a little dirty gas.
I plan to put a fresh base gasket on, bypass the fuel tank and have the fuel pump suck fresh gas out of a clean can to see if the fuel tank is the culprit.

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Yeah that's your problem!
But not only that, the blades were milled to get the slot exposure back!, You're in big trouble!Actually the milling appears to be factory. But I have never seen milling like that before.But then I have never been under the hood of a 65 Commando. No matter, the holes need to be closed up. They are waaay too big for any cam you might ever put in a 273.
The usual way is with solder, I have soldered up quite a few. I take a drill bit about twice as big as the holes or a little less and, by hand, chamfer the holes, both sides;about 1/3 of the way through.Do not use a single speed electric drill;if the bit bites, you can kiss the blade good-bye. Then I heat up the plate and melt a little drop of solder into the hole. Easy on the heat;you can ruin a plate pretty easy with a propane torch. I use one of those mini, butane pencil torches. After the solder cools I dress it down almost flush.I usually remove the blades for this operation, but I can't recommend you do that, and if you try it, you will find out why. The screws are staked. If you try to remove the screws without grinding off the stump,you may destroy the screwdriver slots. If you manage to get them out this way, then putting them back in will be a treat. No, the stumps have to be ground off. But then how will you prevent them from unscrewing themselves and falling into the engine. Well, I use loc-tite there no problem. But another trick is getting those blades back in so that the throttle blades actually close up tight. And there are two of them. So, all in all, I recommend that you not remove them.I know what your thinking; you can't solder those holes up while the blades are installed.Ok then figure something else out, but get rid of the holes.Sorry, my bad. You can try a plastic rivet. But if you are thinking of JB weld, you didn't hear that from me.That stuff turns into stone when it hardens. But if falls into your engine it will turn into a grinding stone. I suppose two-part epoxy would be ok. But it's kindof tricky in that it want's to sag and fall out of there before it sets up. I seen one guy put tape on the bottom-side and then dripped some into the hole.
But if you separate the throttle body from the rest of the carb, you should be able to solder it up.
The beauty of solder is that if it ever falls out, at least in my mind, it can't do any damage. The plugs in my 750 have been in there since 2002, and close to or over 100,000 miles.
Once they're closed up you can screw the curb idle screw in, just enough to make those transfer slots a bit taller than they are wide,set the mixture screws to about 2.25 turns out from lightly seated, and let the T-port sync begin.
BTW; what are those pointy spikes just off to the left of the holes; I haven't seen those before either.
 
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You can buy new brass screws at any good hardware store, and just stake them with a punch. You can use locktite too.

If possible, I would try and find some good used throttle plates.

I agree, you have to close the holes. I can't believe that thing idles under 1800 like that.
 
Well, hell! Sucks to be me right now. I've got nothing to lose, so I might try to solder the plates. Otherwise I'll be buying a replacement.
Thanks a lot, AJ, and to Cudafever, Yellow rose, RRR, and everyone else trying to help me.
 
Different application, but, I once saw a copper ball stuck in a hole and smashed sorta flat, so that the copper overlapped the edges of the hole.I can't imagine that ever falling out. It mightabin a BB.
I imagine you could employ the same idea with a bit of copper-wire;just be sure to chamfer the holes-both sides. It will be a bit tricky on your plates because of where exactly your holes are, but I see it as doable; just don't bend the plates!

You may be questioning the why of closing these holes.
Well, with air going through the plates instead of around them, the plates can be closed further to achieve the same idle-speed. But by closing the plates too far, the idle mixture being discharged from the transfer ports becomes insufficient for idle-speed operation. To compensate at idle, the mixture screws can often be tweaked enough to sorta make it idle. And if timing changes are employed, pretty soon it idles ok. But as soon as you just slightly open (tip-in),the throttle,everything takes a dump.First you may get a little stumble, and then it may go rich, on account of the mixture screws being open so far. Once the air is moving things settle down.That's why those little tiny(lol) holes gotta go!, to put the plates back in a proper working relationship to the transfer ports.
And as previously said, those holes are, for a 273, actually pretty big. It is surprising that the idle-speed isn't excessive. Are you running a PCV? If no then that would help to explain why someone might have put those holes in there in the first place; they are replacing the controlled air leak that the PCV system was providing. If you do close up the holes,and you do NOT currently have a PCV, then you will need to install one.But post #15 shows a hose going off the front of the carb,that seems to indicate a PCV off to the left.
 
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AJ, you hit the nail on the head in your second paragraph. Like you said, I gave it throttle and everything would take a dump, then pop back up. I would pull out of the driveway, put it in first, hit the gas, it would bog and as I give it gas to overcome the bog, the engine would roar!
Yes, the pcv is hooked up. I'm relieved to know what the problem is, now I'm off to fix it.
 
Well, from your description, I don't think your "bog" is much related to these holes.
These holes create a problem at Gentle tip-in,when the carb goes from rich idle to slightly lean to probably normal.
From your description, your "bog" is more likely an accelerator-pump problem, possibly handicapped with a tight TC.Also, with the Tblades so far closed, sometimes the timing is in error to compensate, and sometimes the A-pump linkage does not activate the pump on que. Without the pumpshot being on time and strong, the engine "bogs" until the mains start flowing and the PV comes on line.
The recovery with the second pedal-stab says it all.That accomplishes two things; first is time, and second is more pump-shot.It takes time for you to back-off the pedal and restab it. During this time the engine is unloaded and makes a partial recovery. Then the fuel from the second stab gets there, and now the incoming air-charge has the velocity and the correct mixture to not bog, so away you go.BUT, if the secondaries try to open this early, and you have a tight factory stall TC, then all bets are off;the bog is almost insurmountable.To open the secondaries early,especially as the cam gets bigger, You need two or three things 1)a looser TC to let the engine "freewheel" a few to several hundred more rpm, to where the airspeed through the carb is sufficient. and 2) higher compression/low leakdown.In this case the compression is not actually the requirement. No,actually what is at work here, is the fact that the rings are higher up the cylinder wall,and when the piston starts going down.This, coupled with a very low leakdown, will encourage the atmosphere to begin ramming air down the carb a tiny bit earlier. Earlier. 3)From a standing start, gears won't help this at all. But from the moment the car starts moving, a performance gear-set will present a smaller load to the engine and it will rev up quicker. And that leads to the next thing; Gears do two things. 1) they help the car get off the line quicker, and 2) they help the engine put more average HP down per unit of time. And not much else, except if the correct set is chosen for your driving requirements, it can make your driving experience so much more pleasurable.For instance, For me, having the right gear available at 30/35mph is very important. I only have a 360,and it is saddled with 3650 pounds and manual trans, so it needs to be helped to get moving at all times; but even more so, when I want it to.But I also want to hit the hi-way,cuz I live 20 minutes from the nearest small town, and over an hour to our capital city of Winnipeg so hiway miles is always on my mind. Getting back to gearing at 30. My engine torque peaks well into late 3000/early 4000 rpm somewhere, which means it's a bit soggy off the line. I don't care about that. I care that at 30mph when the hammer drops,stuff has to happen. Also at that speed I want the car to be quiet, cuz I spend a lot of time at that speed.So, to that end, the car is geared to make that happen in second gear. Then when it's go-time, a quick downshift, and it's KABOOM!,we are moving!.
So, as much as I might want to fill those holes, I would fix the bog with the pumpshot and timing first. Perhaps the tip-in, with those monster holes, will then show up. And if not then you have saved yourself 2 hours of work. Of course me being me, I would still plug those holes, cuz no good thing can come of them,with a working PCV system.
And in case you haven't figured it out yet, the PCV system,to the engine, acts as a continuous automatically adjusting air-leak. At idle,this leak it is fixed by the manufactures designed in calibration bypass. As vacuum decreases, the little valve inside there is allowed to fall away from the fixed orifice, and the engine draws more and more air through the breather mixt with crankcase fumes. Eventually the vacuum starts to fall as the T-blades open further and further with gas-pedal increases.So now the valve hits it's maximum travel stop and air passing through it may be limited by the factory design. So now the crankcase fumes have to escape somewhere else or blow out a seal somewhere.Well the factory method is to reroute those fumes through the breather in reverse-flow and back into the filterhouse to be drawn into the engine through the carb,Voila.
The problems start when a big cam goes in. The reduced idle vacuum may allow the automatically adjusting PCV to open and this may disrupt the idle quality, as the PCV hunts around to find equilibrium. The usual fix is to get rid of it, and drill those pesky holes in the T-blades to compensate for the flow,lost through the PCV. If/when the cam gets still bigger, and the idle vacuum falls yet more, then those holes have to be increased ever larger.So it would seem that your carb has seen duty on a big cammed engine or at least a larger displacement engine, or the guy who drilled the holes was just on a different part of the learning curve,or he was limited by circumstance. In any case, the carb is restorable,so no worries.
But let me repeat these holes are not your "bog" problem; at least not the major part. Fix the pump-shot issue first. And if your combo is off,due to a mismatch of; carb-size,secondary-timing,cam,TC,compression,and/or gears,You may not be able to get completely rid of it.
 
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I was tracking down a problem with a carb right after I bought the car and it took me a bit but someone had drilled all the way through the carb body just under the plates on the base plate on both sides.
I was like "WTH?"
That was easier to fix than holes in the plates, but I wanted a new carb anyway. :D
 
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