Any one interested in the oiling mods I did?

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Guitar Jones said:
If you don't plan on twisting it much over 6000 rpm I wouldn't worry with much. Match the pump to the cap and clean up the passages to the oil filter. Check your filter plate and the through bolt that holds it.
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Thanks, I dont think the power will be over 6500, not sure till it is dynoed though
 
I'm intersted as well, I have a 1970 thick wall block that I hope to build a 408 stroker for my duster, I'm currently running a mechanical cam shaft and will use it in the stroker.

Thanks
Ken Blackman
 
Hey GJ, you have pictures showing what you are talking about with the cup on the pump facing the correct way? You mentioned some have come from the Melling assembled incorrectly?

Thanks.
 
Rodzilla said:
Hey GJ, you have pictures showing what you are talking about with the cup on the pump facing the correct way? You mentioned some have come from the Melling assembled incorrectly?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Hmm, probably not but I'll see if I can mock something up on another pump and take some pics.
 
Last night I drilled the oil pump and smoothed everything out. I looked at the plug where the cotter pin is and it was installed correctly.

However, the pump is cast and drilling it made alot of shavings and dust. I decided I was going to take the valve, spring and cup out to properly clean everything.

I pulled the cotter pin and wasn't sure exactly how to get the cup plug out. I mistakingly pushed it in further then it needs to be. I'm sure this puts more tension on the spring?

Does anyone know how to remove it so it can be re-used or do I need to ruin it removing it and replace it?
 
vwmoparguy said:
Last night I drilled the oil pump and smoothed everything out. I looked at the plug where the cotter pin is and it was installed correctly.

However, the pump is cast and drilling it made alot of shavings and dust. I decided I was going to take the valve, spring and cup out to properly clean everything.

I pulled the cotter pin and wasn't sure exactly how to get the cup plug out. I mistakingly pushed it in further then it needs to be. I'm sure this puts more tension on the spring?

Does anyone know how to remove it so it can be re-used or do I need to ruin it removing it and replace it?
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You have to drill a hole in it, screw in a sheet metal screw and pull it out via the screw. Therefore you ruin it and have to replace it. I can't remember the size but I've bought small freeze/galley plugs at NAPA to replace them with. Take the old one with you to the auto supply or machine shop and they should be able to match one up.
 
here is a pic of my nephews 318 stroker, i'll be doing the same mods with my 408, pete
 

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OK since it's been asked what kind of oil pressure I have, somewhere if not in this thread, I can now answer. It has 60 pounds cold at idle, 20 pounds hot at idle, 1400 RPM, and I'm showing a tick over 60 at 7000 going through the lights. That is probably not a problem but since I have 05W20 dino oil in it I think I'll step it up to 10W30 synthetic after I'm sure the rings are seated. I only have 4 passes on the moter and it's not smoking or anything so it's probably all good but I want to put at least 10 passes on it before I put the synthetic in it.

BTW I got my converter fixed, took the low gear set out and even in 84 degree heat it still went 9.74 @ 135 with a 1.330 60'. So I didn't lose anything taking the low gear out.
 
Hey 340pete I noticed some serious machine work to the lifter bores, was this done for clearence for roller lifters?
 
That block that Pete posted is mine, that's factory ... It's running a solid flat tappet cam no need for grinding above lifter bores. I'm not sure why its like it is
 
I run 15/40w oil, mods from this thread, hv pump and milodon pick up, 70psi idle cold, 25 hot 60-70 psi any other time
 
I added all of these Quotes becouse they relate to my queston below. and make for ease referance.

My question at the bottom.

onig said:
First off GJ, I love the way your car launches.
Secondly, thanks for posting this as many people would not spend the time to do this especially with pictures, I take my hat off to you.

I understand and agree with the oiling mods except one of them which needs clarification for me when using hydraulic lifters.



I am having a hard time understanding the cross tube aspect of this modification, especially when blocking off the feed to the #1 main bearing.
Here’s why;
· The tube from the right oil galley is feeding the left oil galley and that oil must make 5 turns to get to the #1 main bearing
· Every turn reduces flow
I just can’t see how this is beneficial, 5 turns (when blocking #1 main from right side) to 1 turn (if not blocking #1 main in stock configuration) and not using the cross tube.

From Moper's post;



Now, if it is true that this cross tube helps prevent starving of #4 main bearing help me understand this as well. Here is my take on this.
· #1 main is NOT blocked off
· The cross tube is fed by the left oil galley
· When the tube feeds the right oil galley it is travelling vertically smashing through the oil in the right galley traveling horizontally
· This smashing of the two different travel paths are causing turbulence

Can I get reasoning being this cross tube mod. Am I missing something here?

I am not questioning your skills or knowledge, just trying to understand the why behind it. I will be doing these mods but am holding off on this cross tube part until further clarification.

A couple of more questions.
· When restricting the oil to the cam bearings we do #1, and #3, what about #5?
· For the cross tube, is it possible to use straight fittings and just bend the line to eliminate two of the corners for better flow since it can be smooth, if there is enough room, just a thought/suggestion.

I appreciate your efforts and eagerly wait for your reply.


Thanks
onig
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Guitar Jones said:
Well what you are doing when you use the cross tube and block the oil to the #1 main from the right galley is you are not feeding a lifter galley off a main bearing. This directs more oil to the main as it is now the end of the line. In other words none of the oil that is reaching that bearing has to go feed anything else except the rod bearing.

As for that mod doing something for the #4 main I don't see it, but I'll be the first to admit I don't know it all.

Oh and as for restricting oil to the #5 cam bearing, I'm looking into that. Haven't found a way to accomplish that easily yet.

And for the tube, I've seen it done a couple different ways including AN fittings and braided hose. You'll have to experiment with that.
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Guitar Jones said:
Adult onset Dyslexia I guess, sorry about that. Or it just may have been the Corona talking, lol. When using the crossover tube method you block the oil from the right galley to the #1 main and use the left galley to feed the #1 main.
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onig said:
Well, I am not questioning anybody's ability, practical experiences or knowledge.

I was having a hard time understanding the reason for the cross tube. I didn't quite agree/understand the blocking of the passage that feeds #1 main bearing from the Right lifter galley. Why would you want to block off that passage and feed the #1 main from the Left lifter galley? (don't answer that) I can agree with all the other mods that GJ is doing and I will be doing them very soon as well, hopefully this weekend, if I can find the long bits, I thought I had them when I did my BB, but they are no where to be found.

Anyways, I spoke to a gentleman named Sanborn from Moparchat. He use to do circle track racing for about 30 years running the small blocks 8,000 RPM and higher with no failures to the bottom end in regards to oiling. He knows his SB stuff, he is an engineer with lots of racing experience. He specifically stated NOT to block off the passage TO #1 main, but rather block the passage FROM #1 main to the Left lifter galley. The cross tube is to supply oil to the Left side for the hydraulic lifters only or for light lubrication for the solid lifters if you wanted to. It has nothing to do with feeding the #4 main. If you are running a solid lifter cam you can eliminate the cross tube, splash lube will lube those lifters. That is what I did with my BB and after 5 years no problems (Knock on Wood).

With the other mods that GJ mentioned and blocking off the feed TO the Left side allows for more oil to the mains and rods. This I believe, as it makes more sense to me. By blocking off the Left feed from #1 main, the main does not have to feed anything else besides its self and the one rod bearing allowing for more oil and no lubrication failure. Also when using the cross tube the fitting must not protrude into the oil galley. Test fit and cut some threads off if necessary. Install the fittings where there is the most material, they don't have to be in any particular spot on the oil gallies. I will be RED Loctite-ing them in place.

One other very important point was the oil holes in the bearings. They need to be slotted/elongated to line up with the oil holes in the block. This gives more dwell time for the oil to pass through and getting more. Actually Direct Connection used to sell bearings that had the slotted oil holes for this very reason, until they stopped with the Kit car program.

Circle cars are at high RPM all the time, unlike drag cars that might be there for a second or two. If these mods work for them, they will definitely work for us.


GJ is doing a great job with this post and I hope everybody appreciates his efforts for sharing and showing pics, I know I do. I appologize if I was being a pain in the ***.

So THANK YOU Guitar Jones, I appreciate your efforts. If it wasn't for this post our SB would have gone back together in stock oiling form.

Now get back to posting on here GJ, the rest of us are waiting.

Thanks
onig
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moper said:
Onig - you and I thought the same thing on the block off...
my quote: "The blocking of the # one main feed from the RH galley is a mystery tho. Seems like it would be fine being fed by the RH tubed galley and you'd want to block the feed from the #1 main to the left hand galley. Maybe I just read that wrong or forgot in the time that has lapsed and that was what was said..."

and yours:"He specifically stated NOT to block off the passage TO #1 main, but rather block the passage FROM #1 main to the Left lifter galley. The cross tube is to supply oil to the Left side for the hydraulic lifters only or for light lubrication for the solid lifters if you wanted to. It has nothing to do with feeding the #4 main."

On the #4 bit, as I said. I read it when I was researching it for my buddy who had #4 overheating issues. His block was not tubed and the flow path for #1 was not changed in any way. Then only change was the tube. It fixed his issue, but I'm no engineer and I can't say exactly wh yit helpd...lol. Regardless, no harm done. We're all learning here. My apologies if you read any of my posting here as irritated or aggressive as that's not anything I intended.
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onig said:
Hey moper.
No irritations or aggressiveness taken. Not like some other boards or people that start wars over nothing.

Well I am glad that the #4 issue was solved at your end. I can agree with some of the stuff you said about that cross tube and disagree as well. You might be right, I might be right, you might be wrong, I might be wrong, maybe we are both right or maybe we are both wrong or somewhere in the middle because like you I am not an engineer either.


But that is interesting about your #4 main issue and how the cross tube fixed it. That is something to keep in mind as it works as well, go figure... As long as things work out in the end that is what counts.

Yes we are learning here. I like to take what makes sense to me and apply it or try to remember to use when needed. This thread is very important because a bottom end that fails can be very costly.

Thanks for your input moper! Much appreciated.

onig
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If i didn't us the Right lifter galley to Left galley tube or cross over tube, on a hyd lifter (roller). And just doing all the rest of the mods, wont it work the same?

What if you didn't do the cross over and didn't plug the Left galley. And instead, kept the left galley(#1 main to left lifter galley) open and factory size. Then opened up # 2,3 and 4(mains to Right lifter galley) as GJ has describe. To 5/16, then open up the #1 main to right lifter galley to say, 21/64. the oil volume would stay basically the same to the left lifter galley as the hole or restriction would be un changed but the #1 main would have more flow or volume.

If you us the cross over or feed the left side from #1 main.......Its still the right oil galley that it is coming from, right?

Fill free to show all the holes in my theory and educate me!
 
on my 340, stock rods, there is a hole about 1/16th of an inch in the bearing where the two half bearing shells come together. It goes through side of rod by bolt. I think this is to oil cylinder wall. Do you think i should use bearings with or without this hole. Have clevit 77 now with hole, but was told i can get without holes.
Thanks gary
 
Great thread Guitar! I have always beleived in overkill. If you overbuild it, it will last. I plan on building a 408/415 in the near future, and had not considered any oil mods like that. But after checking this out, I will do the same, may get a few more years out of it. Probably won't spin it above 6500, but you never know! Thanks for the knowledge and pics! 2 thumbs up!
 
340 mopar said:
on my 340, stock rods, there is a hole about 1/16th of an inch in the bearing where the two half bearing shells come together. It goes through side of rod by bolt. I think this is to oil cylinder wall. Do you think i should use bearings with or without this hole. Have clevit 77 now with hole, but was told i can get without holes.
Thanks gary
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Without. The cyl walls get enough oil as is. Also I would suggest drilling a new 1/16" oiling hole in ALL 5 cam bearings & driving them in so this new smaller hole lines up with the vertical passage from the crank. Then either externally oil the (non mag) heads with a T & a line(s) from the sending unit NPT passage at the top rear of the block like Indy does with BB stuff or drill a large access hole in the pass angled passage in the valley up to the deck/head at the bottom of it just above the main gallery then a smaller hole of the proper dia down inside to plumb it into the main gallery. this'll feed the pass rockers & deadhead at the cam bearing. Plumb a line from the main gallery (T ing from the crossover) across to the drivers angled passage ~halfway up to the deck/head to feed the DR rockers & it'll also dedhead at the cam bearing & you'd restrict both sides to the dia you want for the amount of rocker oiling you require. (.080" maybe)
 
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