Any one interested in the oiling mods I did?

[Duane]

There is conflicting info in this thread about where the #1 main bearing feed is plugged. Using the crossover line with hydraulic lifters do you plug the passenger side feed, drill out the driver side to 5/16 and plug the cam feed an drill it 1/8in.
This is the way I thought it was done in the 70s.


Or do you block the left lifter galley feed from the #1 main and drill out the right side passage to 5/16 and plug the cam feed with a 1/8 hole plug. Then the cross over is just feeding the lifters.

IMHO your first mod mentioned is correct. The reason their is confusion is that it is not universally understood that there are two widely accepted methods to the small block that both address the same issue. That issue namely to slow down the oil velocity in the passenger main galley so that the number four main bearing will oil properly is not totally understood. There also has been another "new type" of crossover tube that is being confused with the original type crossover tube.
The new type is to address the oiling to the rockers and the original was to address number 4 main bearing.
There are some on this thread including the original poster who know the mods but not the reasoning.
I recently purchased a fresh copy of a book that was published back in the late 1970 s at the peak of small block oiling development to make sure that I was understanding this issue myself.
The book discusses both approved mods with the issue being number four main bearing starvation caused by excess oil velocity in the right side oil galley.
To understand better, your car has a hard time making a sharp right hand turn at high speed, but has a much easier time if you slow down first. This is what the oil in the galley is being asked to do, to feed the main bearings. After the oil comes out of the pump it goes into a straight run in the galley at high speed and mostly goes right past the first turn which is number four bearing. Also, number four is being asked to feed your rockers way up on top also at the expense of the crank bearings.
The addition of the other crossover tube discussed in the " how to build big inch stroker small blocks" will allow number 2 and 4 cam bearings to be restricted as well because the rockers are now fed directly by the new crossover tube and not the main bearings.
My new build will contain two crossover tubes as well as bushed lifter bores that will be pressure fed with a .030 feed hole.
Hope this clears the issue better.

Duane

 

[Jadaharabi]

Thank You Duane. That is exactly how I thought it was done and for that reason. To slow down the oil to feed #4.

 

[Jadaharabi]

On the oil to the heads. After doing the crossover pipe. Why not rotate number 2 an 4 cam bearings to block the passage to the head. In the lifter valley drill a hole in the passage. then take a smaller bit an drill thru the back of the passage into the oil galley on both sides of the engine. Then tap and plug the 2 holes in the valley you just drilled. The cam bearing would be oiled thru a 1/8 hole. The heads would have a constant supply of oil and the mains would have more oil.

 

[davescuda]

A lot of good stuff here
thanks for everybody's post

 

[Marcohotrod]

the stock setup has the rocker oiling restricted/timed. if your idea has a constant supply of oil going to the heads/rockers then the mains would not have more oil

 

[Jadaharabi]

the stock setup has the rocker oiling restricted/timed. if your idea has a constant supply of oil going to the heads/rockers then the mains would not have more oil

The mains would have more oil because they would not be passing oil to the cam then to the rockers. The oil would stop at the cam bearing allowing the oil to stay at the crank. The hole feeding the rocker passage would be small so as not to flood the rockers and drop oil pressure. My thinking is to just feed the cam bearings crank and rods without starving them by pushing oil up to the rockers. Then feed the rockers separately.

 

[grimreaper]

I recently purchased a fresh copy of a book that was published back in the late 1970 s at the peak of small block oiling development to make sure that I was understanding this issue myself.
The book discusses both approved mods with the issue being number four main bearing starvation caused by excess oil velocity in the right side oil galley.

Can you provide the name and information on this book that clearly explains Mopar oiling?
Thanks!

 

[Duane]

On the oil to the heads. After doing the crossover pipe. Why not rotate number 2 an 4 cam bearings to block the passage to the head. In the lifter valley drill a hole in the passage. then take a smaller bit an drill thru the back of the passage into the oil galley on both sides of the engine. Then tap and plug the 2 holes in the valley you just drilled. The cam bearing would be oiled thru a 1/8 hole. The heads would have a constant supply of oil and the mains would have more oil.

This is exactly the modification that is described in the "how to build big inch stroker small blocks" book. It is the same idea that Guitar Jones described earlier in this thread but he used drilled out bolts as the restricter that were threaded into the oil passage. He stated that he he did not restrict number 2 and number 4 because they are feeding the rockers via through the cam bearing. In the stroker small block book they recommend to use a redrilled hole in the cam bearing and align the new hole with the oil passage to act as a restriction to help direct more oil to the main bearings. The crossover tube is plumbed into the main galley on the right side and "crossed over to the driver side head passage( not the driver side oil galley.) that feeds the rockers. Because the head passages are now being fed oil from the main oil galley, the rockers have full time oiling instead of pulse oiling and the number 2 and 4 cam bearings can also be restricted just like the other 3 cam bearings to improve oiling to the main bearings.
On my new engine build I am restricting all five cam bearings to 1/8 and running two crossovers lines to address each unique issue.

 

[Duane]

I recently purchased a fresh copy of a book that was published back in the late 1970 s at the peak of small block oiling development to make sure that I was understanding this issue myself.
The book discusses both approved mods with the issue being number four main bearing starvation caused by excess oil velocity in the right side oil galley.

Can you provide the name and information on this book that clearly explains Mopar oiling?
Thanks!

The books that I mention are as follows. " How to build Dodge/Plymouth Performance." Published by SA design and written by Larry Atherton and Larry Schreib.

The other is the How to build big inch stroker small blocks by Jim Szyilygy ( not sure on last name spelling)

The first book discusses the inherit oiling problem of Number 4 bearing and the two approved and tested fixes.
The other book discusses the new not to be confused crossover tube to improve oiling to the rockers and main bearings.

Hope that helps

Duane

 

[Duane]

the stock setup has the rocker oiling restricted/timed. if your idea has a constant supply of oil going to the heads/rockers then the mains would not have more oil

Because the oil that comes to the main bearing only has to supply the main bearing with lots of volume and the cam bearing with minimal volume and that's it . Surely you understand that Guitar Jones is showing the restriction of the cam bearings to improve oil to the main bearings.
But his method can only be applied to number 1,3, and 5 because no other provision was made to supply the rockers. The new crossover line to full time oil the rockers provides this and allows cam bearings 2 and 4 to have the same restrictions for the same reasons as number 1,3 and 5.
It is the best of both worlds if you think about it.

Duane

 

[Marcohotrod]

slide the cam in and the oil is restricted

 

[67 gt]

IMHO your first mod mentioned is correct. The reason their is confusion is that it is not universally understood that there are two widely accepted methods to the small block that both address the same issue. That issue namely to slow down the oil velocity in the passenger main galley so that the number four main bearing will oil properly is not totally understood. There also has been another "new type" of crossover tube that is being confused with the original type crossover tube.
The new type is to address the oiling to the rockers and the original was to address number 4 main bearing.
There are some on this thread including the original poster who know the mods but not the reasoning.
I recently purchased a fresh copy of a book that was published back in the late 1970 s at the peak of small block oiling development to make sure that I was understanding this issue myself.
The book discusses both approved mods with the issue being number four main bearing starvation caused by excess oil velocity in the right side oil galley.
To understand better, your car has a hard time making a sharp right hand turn at high speed, but has a much easier time if you slow down first. This is what the oil in the galley is being asked to do, to feed the main bearings. After the oil comes out of the pump it goes into a straight run in the galley at high speed and mostly goes right past the first turn which is number four bearing. Also, number four is being asked to feed your rockers way up on top also at the expense of the crank bearings.
The addition of the other crossover tube discussed in the " how to build big inch stroker small blocks" will allow number 2 and 4 cam bearings to be restricted as well because the rockers are now fed directly by the new crossover tube and not the main bearings.
My new build will contain two crossover tubes as well as bushed lifter bores that will be pressure fed with a .030 feed hole.
Hope this clears the issue better.

Duane

Duane when you talk about oil starvation on no 4 main due to oil feeding rockers , if your using mag heads on a LA block and your feeding rockers via push rods and its not going via its regular route ,lifter gallery should hold more oil or would there be some slow down in the gallery's forcing oil to make its way into 4 main thus less chance of oil starvation on No 4 main.????? just thinking !

 

[Jadaharabi]

Duane when you talk about oil starvation on no 4 main due to oil feeding rockers , if your using mag heads on a LA block and your feeding rockers via push rods and its not going via its regular route ,lifter gallery should hold more oil or would there be some slow down in the gallery's forcing oil to make its way into 4 main thus less chance of oil starvation on No 4 main.????? just thinking !

To add to that thought since the magnum does not feed the rockers thru the #2 or 4 mains would that cure the oil starvation of the rods? Do stock magnums have a problem spinning rod bearings?

 

[Jadaharabi]

Can you provide the name and information on this book that clearly explains Mopar oiling?
Thanks![/QUOTE]



E bay auction # 222022554206 in the 4th picture tells about the "bugaboo in the oiling system" on the small block

 

[Duane]

Duane when you talk about oil starvation on no 4 main due to oil feeding rockers , if your using mag heads on a LA block and your feeding rockers via push rods and its not going via its regular route ,lifter gallery should hold more oil or would there be some slow down in the gallery's forcing oil to make its way into 4 main thus less chance of oil starvation on No 4 main.????? just thinking !

I said the problem with number four main is caused by high oil speed in the galley and the oil has trouble making the turn to number four. What oil does get there is also being asked to oil the cam and the rockers which only adds to the problem with number four getting enough volume.
I run early W2 heads. They do not oil through the pushrods.

Duane

 

[Duane]

Duane when you talk about oil starvation on no 4 main due to oil feeding rockers , if your using mag heads on a LA block and your feeding rockers via push rods and its not going via its regular route ,lifter gallery should hold more oil or would there be some slow down in the gallery's forcing oil to make its way into 4 main thus less chance of oil starvation on No 4 main.????? just thinking !

I am not a fluid engineer. I am only quoting the fixes to a well documented problem that has been proven by Chrysler engineers to solve the problem.

Duane

 

[Duane]

slide the cam in and the oil is restricted

Do you think the camshaft that turns at half the rpm of the crank and does not see nearly the loads of the crank needs the same volume of oil as the crank does.? Is the oil restricted when the oil holes in the cam journals line up.

 

[Jadaharabi]

Because if not I don't want to waste my time but if you want to keep your LA alive above 7000 I'll post what you need to do.

Thank You Guitar Jones

It most defiantly was not a waste of your time.
The first time I saw these mod done was 1977 on Carl Harvey's 340 that he ran in his old John Force funny car in econo funny. That motor was freshened up many times over the years and was last freshened up in 2008 but not put back in a car at that time. Carl died last Nov but that small block still lives because of these oil system mods. We use to call it the, A & W oiling system mods.

Thank you again Guitar for showing us the ins and outs of how to do this.

 

[Marcohotrod]

Do you think the camshaft that turns at half the rpm of the crank and does not see nearly the loads of the crank needs the same volume of oil as the crank does.? Is the oil restricted when the oil holes in the cam journals line up.

No, that is why my main oil clearance is .003", and the passage from the lifter galley goes to the mains at 9/32" then up to the cam at 3/16" and the cam oil clearance is .001". My rockers like some oil, and the very small percentage of the time when the cam oil holes line up is minor. A small block has #2 feed one head and #4 feed another, a big block has #4 feed both heads, think about it

 

[Jadaharabi]

Thought this might help some.

 

[Duane]

Thought this might help some.

It would be very helpful if you could post the paragraphs that go with this schematic that explain that this modification is to help number 4 main bearing.
That seems to be where the confusion is in this thread . Also that tubing the right side galley is for the same reason and tubing is for solid lifter motors only. That is also explained in the article.

Duane

 

[Jadaharabi]

It would be very helpful if you could post the paragraphs that go with this schematic that explain that this modification is to help number 4 main bearing.
That seems to be where the confusion is in this thread . Also that tubing the right side galley is for the same reason and tubing is for solid lifter motors only. That is also explained in the article.

Duane

Here I what I have at the moment. From pages 12-14

 

[Jadaharabi]

Might as well finish the pictures from the book and a picture how I did mine. Notice that 45 degree angle fittings are used not 90. You really have to drill in at the right spot an at the right angle for them to screw in correctly.

 

[crash520]

Sorry, what book was this taken from again?

 

[Jadaharabi]

The books that I mention are as follows. " How to build Dodge/Plymouth Performance." Published by SA design and written by Larry Atherton and Larry Schreib.

The other is the How to build big inch stroker small blocks by Jim Szyilygy ( not sure on last name spelling)

The first book discusses the inherit oiling problem of Number 4 bearing and the two approved and tested fixes.
The other book discusses the new not to be confused crossover tube to improve oiling to the rockers and main bearings.

Hope that helps

Duane

Both are good books to have.