Yep, that is about how far it is retarded now. Good Discovery
Cam degreeing help me understand!
- Thread starter Dartfreak75
- Start date
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Now you are "Expert"
You can thank @yellow rose for leading us to the steps for figuring this out.
It's why I follow the lifters. Hours and days can be lost messing with the degree wheel if you go there first. Lifters won't lie to ya. 60 second check. It's how the top fuel guys use to check between tare downs in between runs when there wasn't time for a degree wheel. In 60 seconds the lifters will throw the flag or say proceed ahead.
Dartfreak75
Restore it, Dont part it!
Ok got the used TC on and now at tdc both lifters are flush i check on 6 and 1 compression and they are flush both ways now when I go 180 the exhaust is higher that's 180 degrees after number 1 compression
Dartfreak75
Restore it, Dont part it!
I have to give 318willrun run some credit too he pmed me and told me to check the lifters yesterday I just didn't see what I was supposed too. I was looking for a huge difference. But yes thank you YR and everyone that helped out this thread has been great imo!
Just Awesome
you'll never forget this. You can't buy this kind of education in college.
Dartfreak75
Restore it, Dont part it!
Now I kinda question alot of this build! I im using engine tech exhaust valves and pushrods. Wonder if they are as shotty?
Dartfreak75
Restore it, Dont part it!
I just wonder how many people out there would have threw it in dots aligned and ran it retarded? How many retarded engines are out there and they have no clue? Would it even run 22 degrees off like that?
yes, it would run. I've seen them run 2 teeth off.
Enginetech is good products, I use their new valves all the time . . no problems.
Customer Service is great too, they shipped out an order 1 valve short, called them and the shipped out another immediately no questions asked.
That enginetech cam grear was just marked wrong. Looking at some online here and the timing dot is in a different spot.
Going to have to be watching for that now specifically on engine assembling.
Guess I learned something here myself, Thanks DartFreak !
Dartfreak75
Restore it, Dont part it!
I think its funny it happened on my first go around i was back and forth about actually degreeing it vs just lining the dots im glad i did now.
Dartfreak75
Restore it, Dont part it!
Now the question stands should i buy a new TC or just keep advancing it till its right lol
Buy a new matched set timing gears and chain.
That Enginetech timing set is supposed to have a year warranty on it, send it back for a refund.
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Dartfreak75
Restore it, Dont part it!
Yea thats what i was leaning towards it would take out the error on my inexperienced degreeing haha
beanhead
Well-Known Member
So......the cam sprocket was made inaccurately causing the cam to be retarded when using the dots.......
And you just showed why degreeing is important!
And you just showed why degreeing is important!
Dartfreak75
Restore it, Dont part it!
Yep crazy isnt it? I did it over and over again and at first i kinda figured i was doing wrong but then after a while I figured even i couldn't screw this up something had to be off! Lol thus the thread!
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Yes. I don’t use a positive stop. Never have. By the time you get it bolted on, I’ve found TDC and have moved on to the rest of it.
I’m not a fan of the cardboard degree wheel. You can buy a decent 8 inch steel degree wheel for 20-30 bucks.
All I use is an 8 inch wheel. The bigger ones are nice, but I’m not paying that kind of money for one.
BTW, in the above picture of your lifters, if that’s overlap it *LOOKS* like the exhaust valve is higher than the intake. If it is, the cam is retarded.
Pictures can be deceiving.
I forgot to mention that most of those small degree wheels have a hole in them for GM stuff. There are a couple of ways to make it easier to use on Chrysler stuff.
One is to take an old damper bolt, face it off flat and drill and tap it for 3/8-16. Then machine the face for a step that is the diameter of the hole in the degree wheel.
Then the wheel is centered on the damper bolt and you can turn the crank with that bolt, and you only loosen the 3/8 bolt to adjust for TDC.
The other way is to do the same to a damper bolt but make up a spacer to fill the hole in the degree wheel.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
LOL, I should have read the whole thread before post 94.
Now you know why there are many of us who say NEVER EVER do the dot to dot send it method.
Can you imagine how HORRIBLE that would have performed going in that far retarded? If it didn’t bend the exhaust valves, it would have ran like dog poop.
How many cars out there underperform because the cam isn’t degreed correctly?? I’d say a bunch.
I’m not a big fan of advancing the cam, but I’d rather have it advanced. I never retard a cam past split overlap.
A retarded cam is the biggest power killer next to detonation I can think of.
Very cool you worked through it and figured it out. You are now a cam timing expert, and you’ll never forget what you learned.
As 318WR said, you can’t pay for an education like that.
Now you know why there are many of us who say NEVER EVER do the dot to dot send it method.
Can you imagine how HORRIBLE that would have performed going in that far retarded? If it didn’t bend the exhaust valves, it would have ran like dog poop.
How many cars out there underperform because the cam isn’t degreed correctly?? I’d say a bunch.
I’m not a big fan of advancing the cam, but I’d rather have it advanced. I never retard a cam past split overlap.
A retarded cam is the biggest power killer next to detonation I can think of.
Very cool you worked through it and figured it out. You are now a cam timing expert, and you’ll never forget what you learned.
As 318WR said, you can’t pay for an education like that.
Just for the fun of it, looked at all the cam gears here to see if I can find one where the dots are off.
Everything looks good here, put them on the clock with the dot at 6:00 O'clock, the keyways all line up at around 3:30 on the clock face.
Some are the original mopars, one new one is Cloyes, all the same dot location.
Think DartFreak75's Enginetech cam gear was probably made in Brazil. Man made, things go wrong at times . . good to check.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Those are all pretty close, but you have to add in the key way in crank. And in the cam gear and cam.
You can have a pretty big tolerance stack up when you start looking at all the potential places for an error.
As near as I can figure from DartFreak75's pictures looks like his camshaft gear dot mark was 1 tooth off to the retarded side, making up the 20° retarded that he was showing on his tests.
You do know your indicator reading will not be accurate with the dial that far off the center axis of the lifter, right?
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
I agree. At the very least he needs to take the guts out of a hydraulic lifter and use a pushrod in it to degree the cam. Or a solid lifter.
If the OP doesn’t have a hydraulic lifter to gut, he can PM me and I’ll send him one and a pushrod so he will have it if he needs it.
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