Cam opinions 418

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junkyardhero said:
i don't think any of the aftermarkets have the offset t-stat besides the performer. and i know that the performer is the only one that's got the provisions to mount the compressor bracketry.

with an aftermarket bracket and the shorty compressor the weiand twins fit no problems.
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I remember reading that Dave Hughes said he could get the performer manifold to flow the same as a stock rpm ag with his stage 2 deep porting.
I think i remember this work being around $350.
Not sure if he is doing this work anymore. I think he is just mostly selling parts now
 
4eighteener said:
I remember reading that Dave Hughes said he could get the performer manifold to flow the same as a stock rpm ag with his stage 2 deep porting.
I think i remember this work being around $350.
Not sure if he is doing this work anymore. I think he is just mostly selling parts now
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i wouldn't buy anything from hughes that wasn't in stock or that i could cancel an order for and get a refund.

i would put exactly zero-point-zero into that manifold and buy anything else (*cough* air gap *cough*)

yeah you could put some shine on that diamond, but with the skrilla you drop for that you'd be in new manifold territory that stomps balls on the performer all over.
 
junkyardhero said:
i wouldn't buy anything from hughes that wasn't in stock or that i could cancel an order for and get a refund.

i would put exactly zero-point-zero into that manifold and buy anything else (*cough* air gap *cough*)

yeah you could put some shine on that diamond, but with the skrilla you drop for that you'd be in new manifold territory that stomps balls on the performer all over.
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I have no problem with buying an airgap but I need to figure out how to mount the ac compressor. I know they sell the bracket that looks like the bat signal, but i was trying to avoid that aftermarket look and I am not sure if the trick flow overhang will interfer with it anyways.
I like how you politically said, "put some shine on that diamond" instead of the euphemism, "polishing a turd"!
 
4eighteener said:
I have no problem with buying an airgap but I need to figure out how to mount the ac compressor. I know they sell the bracket that looks like the bat signal, but i was trying to avoid that aftermarket look and I am not sure if the trick flow overhang will interfer with it anyways.
I like how you politically said, "put some shine on that diamond" instead of the euphemism, "polishing a turd"!
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these are about the best aftermarket non-bling-y brackets that kinda sorta keep everything in the stock location.

Products: AirCon Compressor Brackets - Bouchillon Performance Engineering

Bouchillon Performance Engineering - Specializing in Mopar geniune and custom engineered parts and accessories located in the low country of South Carolina.
www.bouchillonperformance.com www.bouchillonperformance.com

should clear errybody without too much fuss.

i loves me some performer on 318's and mild 360's. it's great intake for what it is, but it's terribly suited to high RPM operation (in stock form), but it's a great piece if you were building something stock ++ or like a touring car.

the issue is with your set up you've got mismatches on top of mismatches and trying to accomplish something that wasn't particularly in mind at the initial build level. you've got great bones with the stroker long block and AFR heads, but then it just all kinda falls apart from there. that set up screams big power-- .500+ 280+ cam, air gap and a big old honkin' double pumper. but then you're in a truck, with big tires, freeway flyer gears and no stall. none of that is conducive to that set up. but you already figured that out.

there's some super solid advice upthread here and that's sort of the direction i would take. i like that howards cam and if i was buying off the shelf, that would probably be my pick. but i'd contact ken over at oregon and get his thoughts on the matter, he may have something a little more tailored to what your specific needs are. so, resist the urge to go whole hog solid roller with 300 duration and keep it more reasonable in that department. then nab an airgap (or one of the weiand wonder twins), and something in the 750~800 range with vac 2ndaries that's also got down leg or annular boosters and it should round out into a very nice package for your particualr application.
 
junkyardhero said:
these are about the best aftermarket non-bling-y brackets that kinda sorta keep everything in the stock location.

Products: AirCon Compressor Brackets - Bouchillon Performance Engineering

Bouchillon Performance Engineering - Specializing in Mopar geniune and custom engineered parts and accessories located in the low country of South Carolina.
www.bouchillonperformance.com www.bouchillonperformance.com

should clear errybody without too much fuss.

i loves me some performer on 318's and mild 360's. it's great intake for what it is, but it's terribly suited to high RPM operation (in stock form), but it's a great piece if you were building something stock ++ or like a touring car.

the issue is with your set up you've got mismatches on top of mismatches and trying to accomplish something that wasn't particularly in mind at the initial build level. you've got great bones with the stroker long block and AFR heads, but then it just all kinda falls apart from there. that set up screams big power-- .500+ 280+ cam, air gap and a big old honkin' double pumper. but then you're in a truck, with big tires, freeway flyer gears and no stall. none of that is conducive to that set up. but you already figured that out.

there's some super solid advice upthread here and that's sort of the direction i would take. i like that howards cam and if i was buying off the shelf, that would probably be my pick. but i'd contact ken over at oregon and get his thoughts on the matter, he may have something a little more tailored to what your specific needs are. so, resist the urge to go whole hog solid roller with 300 duration and keep it more reasonable in that department. then nab an airgap (or one of the weiand wonder twins), and something in the 750~800 range with vac 2ndaries that's also got down leg or annular boosters and it should round out into a very nice package for your particualr application.
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Thanks for the link!
I do see a small block bracket on there that uses a shorty Sanderson compressor that might work with an rpm air gap. I will definitely look into that!
I never intended it to be a hot rod with a 300 duration cam. The jist of my initial question was if the cam quoted by Howards was too large for my needs. I like AJ's theories of cylinder pressure, and from what I calculated, it was lower than expected with that cam.
I went with the trick flows heads, 1, because I had them, and 2, because i didn't want to sink money into unported J heads which probably would just have added to a mismatch as much as the performer and 650 (actually they may have all played nice with each other)
Yes, the carb and intake are not the best match for sure, but hey, only 2 mismatches for me in a build isn't too bad. I didn't buy them for the build. They were something I had until I could find a solution to the ac issue.
I will take your what you, 5.9 mag, and rumble have said as sage advice.
If all it takes is an air gap and bigger carb and that cam to have something equivalent to my old 440 power wagon from the 70's, I will be happy
 
Porting a dual plane intake is t as easy as it may seem. Air and fuel have weight that can be hard to manage inside those runners. Your aforementioned porting could go deeper and just focus on raising the roof and side walls as deep as the bit fits. You’ll be good from there.

For the A/C brackets, that can be a bit tough. The one back bracost for the stock compressor isn’t really needed but it’s a big plus to have doing its job.

PS, while I do love AJ, don’t take what he writes to seriously. While he has a point and it’s “technically” hard to argue against it, it stupid to take it to heart and very seriously because your stepping over diamonds to pick up wet mushy dog poop to hold high over your head like you won the mega millions lottery jack pot of all time making Bill Gates look poor as the **** your picking up.

This has been proven by other members, some of which have retired or passed on. The threads are here but you have to dig back years to find them. They will prove what I say. So at this point, ether believe me or not, it’s your coin being spent. Make it worth while in the right spots.
 
Problem with AJ is he's too focused on CR (V/P), Obviously cr is important but not at the cost of overall air flow. In the end of the day it's the power curve that's important not how you get it.
 
I have a 1979 Dodge truck with a 360. About a month ago I took off the 1970 340 4-barrel intake and intstalled and Air Gap. No problems whatsoever with the AC brackets except I had to grind about 1/8" off 1 corner of the bracket that mounts to the driver side intake manifold bolt. No problems with radiator/heater hoses. My AC compressor is the factory RV2 however.
 
You'll find the best quality products and best performance from Jones Cams
 
Earlie A said:
I have a 1979 Dodge truck with a 360. About a month ago I took off the 1970 340 4-barrel intake and intstalled and Air Gap. No problems whatsoever with the AC brackets except I had to grind about 1/8" off 1 corner of the bracket that mounts to the driver side intake manifold bolt. No problems with radiator/heater hoses. My AC compressor is the factory RV2 however.
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Thanks Earlie A!
It sounds like the rv2 uses a different bracket than the Sanderson, and although that is a huge compressor, it is probably not as deep as the Sanderson either.
I liked the bracket that junkyard linked to, and the shorty Sanderson compressor and will look into that.
Since the performer is just a copy of a factory 4 barrel manifold, did you notice a difference in your engine's performer when switching to the rpm air gap, and if so was it throughout the powerband? What size carburetor did you use for the new intake?

I know
 
74 Cuda said:
You'll find the best quality products and best performance from Jones Cams
I have heard good things about Jone's Cams, and i started to fill out their online cam selection form but when it came for the cylinder heas flow information I had to refer back to FABO articles and lost the information on the form that I had already inputted. I told myself I would go back and fill it out, but then received the recommendation from Howard's
The forum gossip is that Jones is still waiting on mopar cam core blanks, although I am not sure if that is true
Thank you
Click to expand...
 
4eighteener said:
Thanks Earlie A!
It sounds like the rv2 uses a different bracket than the Sanderson, and although that is a huge compressor, it is probably not as deep as the Sanderson either.
I liked the bracket that junkyard linked to, and the shorty Sanderson compressor and will look into that.
Since the performer is just a copy of a factory 4 barrel manifold, did you notice a difference in your engine's performer when switching to the rpm air gap, and if so was it throughout the powerband? What size carburetor did you use for the new intake?

I know
Click to expand...
My truck had been sitting for 10 years, had way too big a cam in it, had 7.7:1 compression and the 1970 manifold. I had the heads milled 0.080", ported the heads, changed the cam to a much smaller cam and installed the Air Gap with a 650 AVS2 all at the same time. It does run much better but still needs some tuning. I can't tell you how much difference the Air Gap made, but by looking and running my fingers through the manifolds I know it's a good bit better than the factory one.
 
273 said:
Problem with AJ is he's too focused on CR (V/P), Obviously cr is important but not at the cost of overall air flow. In the end of the day it's the power curve that's important not how you get it.
Click to expand...
I think his v/p index adherence and making cam choices taking advantage of cylinder pressure is the "go to" for low rpm daily driver cars. It may not be as pertinent when you get beyond stock to mild rebuilds or racing from what people on the forum say.
I have reached out to him in the past for advice in other builds, and he was generous with his time in trying to help
 
Earlie A said:
My truck had been sitting for 10 years, had way too big a cam in it, had 7.7:1 compression and the 1970 manifold. I had the heads milled 0.080", ported the heads, changed the cam to a much smaller cam and installed the Air Gap with a 650 AVS2 all at the same time. It does run much better but still needs some tuning. I can't tell you how much difference the Air Gap made, but by looking and running my fingers through the manifolds I know it's a good bit better than the factory one.
Click to expand...
With the porting skills you have shown on this site and your attention to detail, I am sure it will be a good runner!
Now that we are so close to black Friday, I was thinking about trying to catch a speedmaster deal on their version of the air gap. I know the poster from blueprint engine says it is down on power compared to the original edelbrock, but it may be better than the performer.
 
4eighteener said:
With the porting skills you have shown on this site and your attention to detail, I am sure it will be a good runner!
Now that we are so close to black Friday, I was thinking about trying to catch a speedmaster deal on their version of the air gap. I know the poster from blueprint engine says it is down on power compared to the original edelbrock, but it may be better than the performer.
Click to expand...
If the Speedmaster version is a copy of the Edelbrock it should work well.
 
rumblefish360 said:
Porting a dual plane intake is t as easy as it may seem. Air and fuel have weight that can be hard to manage inside those runners. Your aforementioned porting could go deeper and just focus on raising the roof and side walls as deep as the bit fits. You’ll be good from there.

For the A/C brackets, that can be a bit tough. The one back bracost for the stock compressor isn’t really needed but it’s a big plus to have doing its job.

PS, while I do love AJ, don’t take what he writes to seriously. While he has a point and it’s “technically” hard to argue against it, it stupid to take it to heart and very seriously because your stepping over diamonds to pick up wet mushy dog poop to hold high over your head like you won the mega millions lottery jack pot of all time making Bill Gates look poor as the **** your picking up.

This has been proven by other members, some of which have retired or passed on. The threads are here but you have to dig back years to find them. They will prove what I say. So at this point, ether believe me or not, it’s your coin being spent. Make it worth while in the right spots.
Click to expand...
Thanks rumble, I like the advice, "it's your coin being spent. Make it worth while in the right spots" !
I am glad you have had good luck with your summit brand carb. I like mine, it starts up like fuel injection. I have used them on several builds. This one i knew worked well and when I went to break in my engine I wanted to eliminate an unknown and go with something tested and that I knew would work and start/run quickly. It wasn't meant to be the end all be all carburetor for this build and I am not wedded to it.
 
I think (if I remember right) in tests Ive seen the chinagap wasn’t quite as good as an edlebrock but it wasn’t far behind. I’ll see if I can find some numbers.
 
Johnny Mac said:
The professional products intake made 30 less horsepower on our aluminum headed 408 than the edelbrock. So 470 to 440. Can't speak for the speedmaster but I wouldn't expect edelbrock numbers.
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Maybe I was wrong. @Johnny Mac from blueprint has tested it and it was down more than I thought.
 
Earlie A said:
If the Speedmaster version is a copy of the Edelbrock it should work well.
Click to expand...
They are but port out better. According to the head porters here, they require a bunch of work making them as or more expensive than Edelbrock heads with all the extensive work that’s being done. If a full tilt head is the order of the day, they would be the route vs a Edelbrock head.
4eighteener said:
Thanks rumble, I like the advice, "it's your coin being spent. Make it worth while in the right spots" !
I am glad you have had good luck with your summit brand carb. I like mine, it starts up like fuel injection. I have used them on several builds. This one i knew worked well and when I went to break in my engine I wanted to eliminate an unknown and go with something tested and that I knew would work and start/run quickly. It wasn't meant to be the end all be all carburetor for this build and I am not wedded to it.
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Thanks. And yep, the Summit carb is a very good carb. I also had an earlier version by Holley. It was the small spreadbore version. I’d like to find the big spreadbore version. I was given one by a member, but, it’s a Marine version that came with missing parts. While I’m sure it will still work and function as intended, it’s missing the choke and parts aren’t available for an electric choke anymore. Not that I need it much here in mid Florida.

You know the drill, use what you have/want/works best for you and/or the vehicle. Screw what anybody else says/thinks.
The half of them don’t truly know **** anyway.
TT5.9mag said:
I think (if I remember right) in tests Ive seen the chinagap wasn’t quite as good as an edlebrock but it wasn’t far behind. I’ll see if I can find some numbers.
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On an upgraded to mild hot rod engine, I found it to be ok and fine for it all. When it comes to my opinion to anyone, my advice is the Edelbrock or the Weiand dual plane intakes. They are both excellent performers.
 
Johnny Mac said:
Our 408 sure doesn't like it! I imagine a milder engine would have less of a reaction.
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I own the magnum that was tested on the engine masters show. It’s a basic 300hp mopar crate engine with a bigger comp cam. On that engine the RPM air gap was tested against an M1, and the air gap was better every where.

M1-350hp, 409tq
RPM AG- 361hp, 423.3

EC75CB5E-50EB-45F7-9169-2316DEFC7095.png

60E44B7A-0CD9-47B9-BFFE-8B66B9EFE046.png
 
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