Camshaft question

-
All I know is my 410 stroker I changed my camshaft from a 234/238 110 to a 238/242 112 and lost a little torque on the chassis dyno but picked up from 390 rwhp to 425 rwhp . My car is a manual and on the road it is much calmer, less bucking when you come down in the revs but feels much faster, at two thousand revs in second gear when you just step on the gas it breaks into wheelspin straight away and goes straight away to the seven thousand rev limiter until you change gears and feeel much stronger in third gear as well! I did also go from ported edelbrock heads to Trick flows as well. I ran 11.4 @ 120 mph before but have not been to the track to see the final out come!
 
crackedback said:
I forget which cam MP produced in both 108 and 114 variations 484 or 508. All I know is the 114 wasn't even good to use as a doorstop. JUNK

Don't know what they did for ignition timing on those test, but, I'd bet all three of them would like a different initial timing setting. No mention of that in the article, IIRC.
Click to expand...
Focusing on the 284/.484 that was on a 108 LSA it has 68° of overlap whereas the 114 LSA version has 56° of overlap.
Big difference right there.
All I ever read from MP was that they changed the LSA to make it more street friendly, have better drive ability IIRC. Obviously they were selling the 108° LSA versions to more guys with low compression, turd converters and highway gearing......mismatched and poorly tuned combos than they were to those that were competent in putting together a cohesive combination.
 
James Clews said:
All I know is my 410 stroker I changed my camshaft from a 234/238 110 to a 238/242 112 and lost a little torque on the chassis dyno but picked up from 390 rwhp to 425 rwhp . My car is a manual and on the road it is much calmer, less bucking when you come down in the revs but feels much faster, at two thousand revs in second gear when you just step on the gas it breaks into wheelspin straight away and goes straight away to the seven thousand rev limiter until you change gears and feeel much stronger in third gear as well! I did also go from ported edelbrock heads to Trick flows as well. I ran 11.4 @ 120 mph before but have not been to the track to see the final out come!
Click to expand...


So you made multiple changes but the cam change was the biggest influence? Highly unlikely.


The vast majority of driveablity issues are carb/timing/tuning issues.
 
12many said:
Focusing on the 284/.484 that was on a 108 LSA it has 68° of overlap whereas the 114 LSA version has 56° of overlap.
Big difference right there.
All I ever read from MP was that they changed the LSA to make it more street friendly, have better drive ability IIRC. Obviously they were selling the 108° LSA versions to more guys with low compression, turd converters and highway gearing......mismatched and poorly tuned combos than they were to those that were competent in putting together a cohesive combination.
Click to expand...
Doesn't the 114 cam close the intake valve later, making the low end issue worse if installed straight up? Counter productive to an already weak low end camshaft.

I used to install the 108 cam at 100-102 all the time. Makes a huge difference in grunt. Tune up is key as always.
 
This has turned into a lively discussion! The Dart is currently at the body shop getting a few repairs, so I have not had a chance to start the tuning process. I’m looking forward to devoting time to making the car run as good as it can with the current cam. My next forum question wil be on a more Simple subject like “ what’s the best oil to use!”.
 
Airstream65 said:
My next forum question wil be on a more Simple subject like “ what’s the best oil to use!”.
Click to expand...
That’s an easy one.

63650385-1114-42B2-BEDB-930A7DF9FE41.jpeg
 
Ever notice how some cam lobes look like an egg?
Talking about eggs, I like mine scrambled.
How does everyone else like their eggs?
 
crackedback said:
Doesn't the 114 cam close the intake valve later, making the low end issue worse if installed straight up? Counter productive to an already weak low end camshaft.

I used to install the 108 cam at 100-102 all the time. Makes a huge difference in grunt. Tune up is key as always.
Click to expand...

crackedback said:
Doesn't the 114 cam close the intake valve later, making the low end issue worse if installed straight up? Counter productive to an already weak low end camshaft.

I used to install the 108 cam at 100-102 all the time. Makes a huge difference in grunt. Tune up is key as always.
Click to expand...
Heck I don’t know! An intake that closes that late with a 114 LSA strait up? on a cam with those adv/.050” duration numbers? No thank you! I’ll take them with a 108° or better yet a 106° advanced a smidge. Cause that’s how I like to roll:steering:
 
crackedback said:
Doesn't the 114 cam close the intake valve later, making the low end issue worse if installed straight up? Counter productive to an already weak low end camshaft.

I used to install the 108 cam at 100-102 all the time. Makes a huge difference in grunt. Tune up is key as always.
Click to expand...

So if we close the intake sooner we build more cylinder pressure right?

Now go back and look at that so called cam test and look at where the 101 vs 113 camshafts closed the intake and look at the cylinder pressure differences as a result.

Is it really about LSA or is it really where we close the intake and how much cylinder pressure we build.
 
Hysteric said:
So if we close the intake sooner we build more cylinder pressure right?

Now go back and look at that so called cam test and look at where the 101 vs 113 camshafts closed the intake and look at the cylinder pressure differences as a result.

Is it really about LSA or is it really where we close the intake and how much cylinder pressure we build.
Click to expand...
Uhmmm, it's about both......they have different functions, and can be equally important depending on the application.
Pro Stock heads obviously aren't following the same pattern as a pocket-ported J head.
I stated (accurately), that the cam listed would suck the wind out of that stroker, and it will.
 
Hysteric said:
So if we close the intake sooner we build more cylinder pressure right?

Now go back and look at that so called cam test and look at where the 101 vs 113 camshafts closed the intake and look at the cylinder pressure differences as a result.

Is it really about LSA or is it really where we close the intake and how much cylinder pressure we build.
Click to expand...
None of the above..
I think what's it's really about is just how much milk you need to make a well textured scambled eggs.
 
Bakerlite said:
None of the above..
I think what's it's really about is just how much milk you need to make a well textured scambled eggs.
Click to expand...
I use cream as it gives it a better texture. I also like to use Parmesan.

Killer6 said:
Uhmmm, it's about both......they have different functions, and can be equally important depending on the application.
Pro Stock heads obviously aren't following the same pattern as a pocket-ported J head.
I stated (accurately), that the cam listed would suck the wind out of that stroker, and it will.
Click to expand...

Maybe to you it is but to some one else who's pushing the limits of combustion and making 2 HP per cube on pump gas in street cars they chose wider LSA's for very good reasons.
 
James Clews said:
All I know is my 410 stroker I changed my camshaft from a 234/238 110 to a 238/242 112 and lost a little torque on the chassis dyno but picked up from 390 rwhp to 425 rwhp . My car is a manual and on the road it is much calmer, less bucking when you come down in the revs but feels much faster, at two thousand revs in second gear when you just step on the gas it breaks into wheelspin straight away and goes straight away to the seven thousand rev limiter until you change gears and feeel much stronger in third gear as well! I did also go from ported edelbrock heads to Trick flows as well. I ran 11.4 @ 120 mph before but have not been to the track to see the final out come!
Click to expand...
All that 112 did was maintain the same overlap with the longer duration, TF heads + an engine that will love more cam, no surprise there. Gotta love a great runnin' car w/a stick! Be sure to let Us know what she lays down next time at the track.
 
Hysteric said:
I use cream as it gives it a better texture. I also like to use Parmesan.



Maybe to you it is but to some one else who's pushing the limits of combustion and making 2 HP per cube on pump gas in street cars they chose wider LSA's for very good reasons.
Click to expand...
Lol, OK Sport....
 
Making 2hp/ci is a relevant expectation on a LA SBM with a std port window which is most of the street beaters in here are going to run. Perfectly irrelevant.

The 113 only good points is it makes higher vacuum at idle compared to the other two and is equivalent or beats them in HP in the last 500rpm or so of the range. Sort of how the 484 is a better cam than the 508 is the same range, except the last 500 or so RPM. What do you want to give up for that benefit? Don’t bother answering as this has already devolved to the ridiculous. :)

If presented with a choice of the three cams tested, 101,107,113, I know which I would choose and how I would install it.
 
crackedback said:
Making 2hp/ci is a relevant expectation on a LA SBM with a std port window which is most of the street beaters in here are going to run. Perfectly irrelevant.
Click to expand...

You're right. Back to magazine tech and only 3 options.

I better not mention 240 cranking PSI on street unleaded either.........
 
I had that mopar performance 292 510 114 cam in my 340 six pack with 11 to one forged pistons. It ran really good and was really nice to drive and ran in the low thirteens. Forty years later I put what I thought was the same 292/ 510 cam in my stroker but found out it was on a 108 lobe sep. I did not really like how it behaved as you had to be over two thousand revs before it smoothed out.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top