Can it hook?

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crackedback said:
You won't get there with that MPH.

6400, 27" and 3.91's = ~15.5% converter slip. That's your biggest issue. Slip number is REALLY bad if the tach is correct. The converter is not a good match.

Post all incrementals from your best run. Someone will find something
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You have a nice car and it's running decent in my opinion. But you have some top end slip for sure, at least 500 rpm's more then being efficient. But even so, if your looking to get into the 10's, i'm not sure i'd look at another converter just yet. I think you'll need to make some significant power upgrades to get there, and that will require a spec'd converter for that combo. I'd just hate to see anyone dumping $$$ into these things along the way just to replace them with another upgrade. I think your 75hp or so away from your ultimate goal.

Just my opinion. :thumleft:

Good Luck moving forward.
 
Oh I know, I'm just getting started and have a long way to go to make it to the 10's. Yes, I will definetely need to find some more power for 10's. Here is everything of my best run, 60' 1.638, 330' 4.823, 660' 7.538, 1/8 mph 90.25, 990' 9.842, 1320' 11.929 1/4 mph 111.28. I'm thinking of some engine changes also. I've talked with my engine/trans builder a few weeks ago. I'm pretty sure with a bigger cam, Super Victor intake and a bigger carb I can find about 60 hp. Another guy has an engine built the same as mine and made those changes and that's what he gained. My engine made 501hp@5700 rpm, but something to remember is on the dyno your not running the water pump or a mechanical fan. You have open headers instead of a full exhaust and it's sucking cool air instead of hot under hood air. Those things all rob horse power.
 
It's running like a 400-420 engine not a 500hp deal. I believe the converter is not working well. The slip numbers should be in the 5% range.

IMO, if you were losing 25hp from fan drag and hot air I'd be surprised. Full exhaust lots of times is beneficial. It's acting as though it's losing 80-100hp.

I'd spend time figuring out why the MPH is weak before throwing more $ at it in the form of intake/cam changes. If it really makes 500, it should run bottom 11's easily with MPH in the 120 range.
 
340 said:
Oh I know, I'm just getting started and have a long way to go to make it to the 10's. Yes, I will definetely need to find some more power for 10's. Here is everything of my best run, 60' 1.638, 330' 4.823, 660' 7.538, 1/8 mph 90.25, 990' 9.842, 1320' 11.929 1/4 mph 111.28. I'm thinking of some engine changes also. I've talked with my engine/trans builder a few weeks ago. I'm pretty sure with a bigger cam, Super Victor intake and a bigger carb I can find about 60 hp. Another guy has an engine built the same as mine and made those changes and that's what he gained. My engine made 501hp@5700 rpm, but something to remember is on the dyno your not running the water pump or a mechanical fan. You have open headers instead of a full exhaust and it's sucking cool air instead of hot under hood air. Those things all rob horse power.
Click to expand...

Be careful about going much bigger on everything. Bigger isn't always better. It can be surprising how much you can gain from the effort to tune what you have. "Peak HP" isn't what you should be after. IMO the Super Victor would be your biggest mistake.

I don't want to sound like I'm bragging, especially since there are guys out there who have done even more with less than I have. But here is an example using my car:

360 + .060, unported LA-X heads w/1.92" in/1.625" ex., .474" lift cam but with lots of duration, honest 10.5-1 compression, Holley Strip Dominator (A good dual plane is close) and Holley 750 DP. Low gear 904 and converter actually flashes to 5000+, 4.86 gears and 9"x30" radial slicks. I shift & go through the lights around 6,700+. My car weighs 3,540+ and has TTI 1 5/8"-1 3/4" step headers with 3" x-pipe ending with Dynomax UltraFlo mufflers at the rear axle.

* Best 1/4 Mile ET/mph: 11.227 @ 116.27 mph
* Best 1/8 Mile ET/mph: 7.034 @ 94.55 mph
* 1.47 60' times

...footbraking. I don't remember if I had run in the 11.teens, but it can.

It's a matter of tuning and matching things up to work together efficiently within the same rpm range. Your 60's need the most work and accelerator pump tuning can help a lot. But it's a little of everything. Changing one thing can affect the optimum tune of something else! i.e.: Change the cam or the exhaust system, you may need to retune the carb. Change to a converter that works better with you engine torque and you may need to work on the suspension. ETC.......

Trust me, it wasn't easy and I'm always tweaking.

But good luck. I can appreciate a fast "stock appearing" Mopar!
 
^^^ I was just thinking the same about the intake swap. ^^^ The super victor is pretty much an all out race intake that'll give up a good deal of low end torque. I don't think it'd benefit you at all 340. I think you'd benefit much more from a converter swap because as Rob pointed out it's slipping terrible. 15% slip will cost you a pretty good amount in the 1/4. If you are dead set on changing the cam/intake or any other part of the engine do that AND have a converter built for your application. If you just want to make one single decent improvement have a good converter built for what you have and tune tune tune.... Tuning may be kinda time consuming and seem tedious but the gains can be quite a bit. Whittle off .05 here and .08 there a few times over and pretty soon your going quite a bit quicker. That's one big reason why you see guys like Myron running the times he runs. Lots of patient tuning
 
Well I'm not going to panic or run out and buy a bunch of parts. I should have said the cam, intake and carb were something for down the road, maybe. I've only had the new combination to the track once and got 9 runs on it. I need to get out a lot more before spending some money on stuff. I'm sure theres more there with a lot of tuning.
 
I went 11.27 @ 120mph with 446hp. All steel, full interior 71 duster. If you are making 501hp then something is eating a ton of hp down the line, or that thing is a real tank. Find out why the mph is down so much and go from there.
 
What's your combination? Cubic inch, cam, intake, carb, stall convertor, gears weight of your car? What was your 60'?
 
3200lbs, 402cu, .580lift solid roller, factory 71 intake, factory thermoquad, 1600 stall ultimate converter, 4.10gears, g70-14 repo polyglass.

1.68 60ft was the 11.27 pass. Has dipped into the 1.64 as its best.
 
Alright, have not posted anything for a while. I'm just going to give an update of where I'm at and what changes I plan to make. Hopefully the comments won't be to brutal, you know, things like calling the car a "pig" or telling me to buy a different this, that or the other. They know somebody who's car runs 9's on 400 horse and other interesting comments. I have to say that I am really surprised by some of the negative comments I have got.

My best time last year was a 11.934 @ 111.25 60' 1.643. The car hooks and spins when it takes off. I know it does not have enough pinion angle for the super stock springs, 4 degrees is all I can get in it with out cutting the factory spring perches and moving the axle and welding it. I also think the car is over geared for the cam, I have 3.91's and a 27" MT ET Street. I'm going through the lights at 6400 plus rpm. My engines peak HP is at 5700 rpm, I'm not floating the valves and the car feels like it's out of wind a couple hundred feet before the finish line. My trans has the low first gear (2.74) so the starting ratio is pretty deep.

My plans for changes. I have a dana 60 I will be going to with 3.54 gears and I will be going to a set of caltracs. I also plan to pull the back seat and install a roll bar for chassis stiffening and safety reasons. I will be pulling my tail pipes and dumping at the rear axle. That way I can pull the exhaust for open headers and it also eliminates some weight.
 
340 said:
I know it does not have enough pinion angle for the super stock springs, 4 degrees is all I can get in it with out cutting the factory spring perches and moving the axle and welding it.
Click to expand...

Had the same problem with my car and I installed pinion angle shims. Helped quite a bit. Nice quick and easy $30 fix. Just make sure and buy the steel ones. Seen a lot of problems with aluminum ones cracking. I bought mine on E-bay but if you have a 4x4 driveline shop nearby they should have what you need. They come in different sizes (2 degree, 3 degree, 4 degree, etc) so you can dial it right in. If your switching to Cal-tracs right away don't worry about it but if it's going to be a while the shims will fix you up.
 
I skimmed the whole thread and couldn't find some info that might be key to finding the "down on power" issue:

What carburetor are you using?
What heads (and are they ported)?
Current cam specs?
Compression ratio?

Sorry to hear you are still having problems with this one, hang in there and keep tuning.
 
Well I'm not really having any problems with the car. It runs good, revs fast. I did only get to the track 2 times do to a now ex-girlfriend. Women, I hope someone figures them out someday. lol I was planning on getting to the track a lot more but that's life.

My pinion angle is at 2 degrees with out any shims. I have tried putting a 3 degree shim in but they get so thick on the one end that the locating pin on the springs barely engages the spring perch locating hole. I didn't think it was a safe set up so I stayed with a 2 degree shim. I figured the best would be to put new spring perches on. This is an 8 3/4 that I have already broke once when I first put this motor in. I have a Dana 60 I will be narrowing and building so I just decided to put my effort towards that. Part of my reason for going to caltracs is to get away from a pinion snubber. The bottom of my car where it hits is starting to get beat up. You also only run about 3 degrees of pinion angle (I think?) which is better for the u-joints and street driving.

Here are the specs on my motor: 418.37 cubic in., 9.67 comp. ratio, ported X heads 2.05 int. 1.60 exh. intake flowed 264 @ .500 exhaust 196 @ .500 Cam is a cam motion hydraulic flat tappet 110 lobe center installed @ 106 center line gross lift is .544 with Indy 1.6 roller rockers, duration @ .050 is 246, carb is a Holley 750 double pumper on a Edelbrock RPM airgap that was port matched. Engine dynoed 496.7 HP @ 5700 rpm TQ was 521.2 @ 4500 rpm.

I'm not discouraged. It will get there with some work. Hopefully I can get to the track more this year.

Thanks
 
How are u measuring your pinion angle???? Not being a smart *** but there is a lot of confusion how to do it,Sounds stupid but have friends who have screwed it up.Also why the Dana 60 ???? Your adding a lot of weight,If your using cal-tracks why not back brace the 83/4?????
 
Pinion angle is the angle between the drive shaft and the rearend. The rearend should always be nose down in relationship to the drive shaft. As power is applied the the pinion tries to line up with the drive shaft. As for the Dana 60, I'll take the weight for the reliability over the 8 3/4.
 
340 said:
Well I'm not really having any problems with the car. It runs good, revs fast. I did only get to the track 2 times do to a now ex-girlfriend. Women, I hope someone figures them out someday. lol I was planning on getting to the track a lot more but that's life.

My pinion angle is at 2 degrees with out any shims. I have tried putting a 3 degree shim in but they get so thick on the one end that the locating pin on the springs barely engages the spring perch locating hole. I didn't think it was a safe set up so I stayed with a 2 degree shim. I figured the best would be to put new spring perches on. This is an 8 3/4 that I have already broke once when I first put this motor in. I have a Dana 60 I will be narrowing and building so I just decided to put my effort towards that. Part of my reason for going to caltracs is to get away from a pinion snubber. The bottom of my car where it hits is starting to get beat up. You also only run about 3 degrees of pinion angle (I think?) which is better for the u-joints and street driving.

Here are the specs on my motor: 418.37 cubic in., 9.67 comp. ratio, ported X heads 2.05 int. 1.60 exh. intake flowed 264 @ .500 exhaust 196 @ .500 Cam is a cam motion hydraulic flat tappet 110 lobe center installed @ 106 center line gross lift is .544 with Indy 1.6 roller rockers, duration @ .050 is 246, carb is a Holley 750 double pumper on a Edelbrock RPM airgap that was port matched. Engine dynoed 496.7 HP @ 5700 rpm TQ was 521.2 @ 4500 rpm.

I'm not discouraged. It will get there with some work. Hopefully I can get to the track more this year.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Good design pinion angle shims require you to take the center bolt out of the spring and bolt them in place. That way there's plenty of the bolt head sticking out to engage into the perch.
 
I did not know that. You learn something new everyday I guess. Who sells that type of angle shim?

Thanks
 
340 said:
Pinion angle is the angle between the drive shaft and the rearend. The rearend should always be nose down in relationship to the drive shaft. As power is applied the the pinion tries to line up with the drive shaft. As for the Dana 60, I'll take the weight for the reliability over the 8 3/4.
Click to expand...

Try this. Look down in this thread for the protractors, transmission and rear ends.

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=228120&page=2&highlight=pinion

It's still soft on MPH if it's really making 500ish hp.
 
Are u using a angle finder and of coarse you know u measure it at the bottom and top and subtract the two and that is your angle right???? Oh of coarse I must be a idiot for asking RIGHT????? U just don't measure one angle or just the top or just the bottom. as per Dave's chassis book,Oh and also 500 hp is no sweat for a 8 3/4 I have 650 to mine-Good luck
 
swifter said:
Are u using a angle finder and of coarse you know u measure it at the bottom and top and subtract the two and that is your angle right???? Oh of coarse I must be a idiot for asking RIGHT????? U just don't measure one angle or just the top or just the bottom. as per Dave's chassis book,Oh and also 500 hp is no sweat for a 8 3/4 I have 650 to mine-Good luck
Click to expand...

I didn`t read all this post and replies, but I think u need to look at your 60 ft. time. seems pretty slow to me compaired w/ some of my past projects.my vega had high 1.40`s ( over tired,) and the 92 GMC had 1.50 flats ran high 12.0`s w/ undersize rear jets.----bob
 
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