McGurik
Active Member
The spliced IGN 1/2 wires trigger the relay at 86 pin, you can just pay attention to the second relay. Pulled fused power to pin 30 and out to EFI from pin 87. Wire pin 85 to ground and you’re complete.
Clean 12v switched source that is hot cranking and running
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The spliced IGN 1/2 wires trigger the relay at 86 pin, you can just pay attention to the second relay. Pulled fused power to pin 30 and out to EFI from pin 87. Wire pin 85 to ground and you’re complete.
cdwmotorsports
Well-Known Member
I already have the power, ground and fuel pump wires for the EFI ran I am merely trying to get a “clean switched 12V source”
McGurik
Active Member
No one on these forums knows what your wiring looks like. You will need to find the IGN 1/2 wires that, I’m assuming, connects to your MSD ign box. Pull it from there.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
I have tried to explain this to you. There is ONLY ONE switched "run" source under the hood and that is the IGN1 "ignition run" and it GOES DEAD during cranking. So you must splice the IGN1 and IGN2 which is the (normally brown) resistor bypass circuit together.
There is no magic. The ignition switch only has so many outputs. and these^^ iz it!!
Switch:
Main power IN to the switch, always hot, unfused, from the ammeter circuit
OUT:
Accessory, hot in both acc and "run"
IGN1 "run" sometimes but not always dark blue hot ONLY in run, goes DEAD during "start"
IGN2 the coil bypass circuit sometimes brown. connects to the coil+ side of the ballast
START--the yellow start wire triggers the start relay
That is IT there ain't no mo
There is no magic. The ignition switch only has so many outputs. and these^^ iz it!!
Switch:
Main power IN to the switch, always hot, unfused, from the ammeter circuit
OUT:
Accessory, hot in both acc and "run"
IGN1 "run" sometimes but not always dark blue hot ONLY in run, goes DEAD during "start"
IGN2 the coil bypass circuit sometimes brown. connects to the coil+ side of the ballast
START--the yellow start wire triggers the start relay
That is IT there ain't no mo
famous bob
mopar misfit
Why not just go to a switched spot on ur fuse box , easier , fast, no relays needed .
cdwmotorsports
Well-Known Member
Are those hot while running and cranking?
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
THERE IS NO SWITCHED SPOT ON THE FUSE BOX!!!!!
I have attempted to explain this dammit. There are only so many OUTPUTS from the ignition switch.
ALL of the switched power in the fuse panel COMES FROM ACCESSORY. This means If you tap power out of the fuse panel, the car WOULD RUN with the key in either "run" or in "accessory."
READ THIS!!!
THERE IS ONLY ONE SWITCHED SOURCE PERIOD!! IT COMES FROM THE IGNITION SWITCH and is known commonly as "ignition run" AKA IGN1
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
READ THIS CAREFULLY!!!
The power PATH is battery.......starter relay stud (junction point)........fuse link.........through the bulkhead.........(ammeter red)..........through ammeter........out on ammeter big black........to WELDED SPLICE........branch off TO IGNITION SWITCH.......through the switch.........out on IGN1.........back through the bulkhead........into engine bay........the dark blue IGN1 "run" wire.
That is IT!! There is NO other!!!!
That wire GOES DEAD in start!!!
You must jumper it with IGN2 if you are NOT using a ballasted ignition system.
If you are using a ballasted system, you must devise a relay/ diode to jumper "start" power into the "run" line during cranking.
The power PATH is battery.......starter relay stud (junction point)........fuse link.........through the bulkhead.........(ammeter red)..........through ammeter........out on ammeter big black........to WELDED SPLICE........branch off TO IGNITION SWITCH.......through the switch.........out on IGN1.........back through the bulkhead........into engine bay........the dark blue IGN1 "run" wire.
That is IT!! There is NO other!!!!
That wire GOES DEAD in start!!!
You must jumper it with IGN2 if you are NOT using a ballasted ignition system.
If you are using a ballasted system, you must devise a relay/ diode to jumper "start" power into the "run" line during cranking.
DionR
Well-Known Member
My ‘74 has a circuit in the fuse box that powers the instrument panel, fuse #6. It comes off the blue IGN1 wire and is only powered in run. It’s the only one that does that though.
Did the earlier cars not go through the fuse box to power the IP?
DionR
Well-Known Member
What about a different ignition switch?
Didn’t the F-Body do away with ballast resistor when they had lean burn?
If so, maybe the circuit in the switch is different and run doesn’t go dead when in start. Maybe that switch is similar enough it could be swapped in?
Didn’t the F-Body do away with ballast resistor when they had lean burn?
If so, maybe the circuit in the switch is different and run doesn’t go dead when in start. Maybe that switch is similar enough it could be swapped in?
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
But that is part of the problem. That line basically is the same as IGN1 so it goes dead in crank
DionR
Well-Known Member
Ah, true. I was thinking about it too simplistically.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
Latest book I have is 76. All diagrams are similar, and all ignition switches seem similar, all are labled with J2 circuit, dark blue. I don't know about later ones. Other than a junkyard, and physically comparing switches, that seems like a really long shot.
DionR
Well-Known Member
I do have a Volare ignition switch, so I dug it out and check resistance when going from start to run.
It looks like maybe the IGN1 circuit stays powered between the two positions? My connections might have been suspect so it would be nice if someone else also checked.
The switch itself looks the same, too.
Big issue is that it’s uses blade connections at the plug rather than the round ones.
It looks like maybe the IGN1 circuit stays powered between the two positions? My connections might have been suspect so it would be nice if someone else also checked.
The switch itself looks the same, too.
Big issue is that it’s uses blade connections at the plug rather than the round ones.
DionR
Well-Known Member
Only reason I wonder about it is your comment that an ignition that doesn’t use a ballast resistor would need a different switch. If I am correct that the lean burn system did away with the ballast resistor, it implies that the switch might be what is needed.
But I am not absolutely certain the ballast resistor went away.
DionR
Well-Known Member
Ok, here's how I think this works. Below is the plug end of an F-Body ignition switch (switch on the left):
Based on checking for connectivity, it looks like the F-Body splits the power and both the red and the pink wires would be hot.
When the switch is in the run and start position, the red wire connects to the blue wire. Best I could tell, that is the only connection with the red wire.
The pink wire connects to the black/pink wire when in the run position only, while it connects to the yellow wire in the start position only.
The black wire between the blue and the yellow connected to the pink wire, but only when in acc.
The small black wire next to the red wire didn't connect to anything that I could tell.
So, to get this switch to run in my '74 Duster, I would need to connect the following:
Duster -> F-Body Ign Switch
Red -> Red
Red -> Pink
Blue -> Blue
Brown -> Yellow
Black -> Black/Pink
Black -> Black between yellow and blue
That would give me a switch that is hot on the blue IGN1 wire in both start and run positions.
The black wire between the yellow and blue wire could be ignore if one didn't care if acc worked on the switch. If it is hooked up, need to look at what runs off the black wire in your car to make sure it doesn't pull too much for the smaller wire.
Hate that the ignition and start/acc power would both be on the same wire then, but that is how the stock system is so at least it isn't worse than stock.
Based on checking for connectivity, it looks like the F-Body splits the power and both the red and the pink wires would be hot.
When the switch is in the run and start position, the red wire connects to the blue wire. Best I could tell, that is the only connection with the red wire.
The pink wire connects to the black/pink wire when in the run position only, while it connects to the yellow wire in the start position only.
The black wire between the blue and the yellow connected to the pink wire, but only when in acc.
The small black wire next to the red wire didn't connect to anything that I could tell.
So, to get this switch to run in my '74 Duster, I would need to connect the following:
Duster -> F-Body Ign Switch
Red -> Red
Red -> Pink
Blue -> Blue
Brown -> Yellow
Black -> Black/Pink
Black -> Black between yellow and blue
That would give me a switch that is hot on the blue IGN1 wire in both start and run positions.
The black wire between the yellow and blue wire could be ignore if one didn't care if acc worked on the switch. If it is hooked up, need to look at what runs off the black wire in your car to make sure it doesn't pull too much for the smaller wire.
Hate that the ignition and start/acc power would both be on the same wire then, but that is how the stock system is so at least it isn't worse than stock.
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DionR
Well-Known Member
That should be a 77-78 Volare based on what I looked up on RockAuto.
I was wrong about the black/pink wire, it is only hot when in run. But not start or acc. The black wire between the yellow and blue wires is hot in acc. Will fix my original post.
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DionR
Well-Known Member
My guess is that the blue wire only feeds the ignition in a Volare (and thus is only 14 ga or so) and the black/pink wire feeds everything else that is one with the ignition (gauges, radio, etc.). On my car, the blue wire is 12 ga and feeds both the ignition and the gauges.
famous bob
mopar misfit
One that activates as soon as the key is turned .
DionR
Well-Known Member
Found the small black wire connection. It's connects to the body of the switch in the start position. It's a ground.
The ignition switch for a '78 Volare works for a D100 or D150 from 1978-1987, so I went looking for wiring diagrams for those since I can't find one for the Volare. Found this website with a zip file labeled "1979 Dodge & Plymouth Truck / Ramcharger or Trail Duster" - MyMopar - Mopar Forums & Information - Mopar Wiring Diagrams
The schematic shown on page 22 seem to match ok, minus some wire color differences.
Interesting thing is, this is for a truck without lean burn. It uses a wire off the starter relay to up the power on the coil during starting, but doesn't appear to care that IGN1 is still powered.
The ignition switch for a '78 Volare works for a D100 or D150 from 1978-1987, so I went looking for wiring diagrams for those since I can't find one for the Volare. Found this website with a zip file labeled "1979 Dodge & Plymouth Truck / Ramcharger or Trail Duster" - MyMopar - Mopar Forums & Information - Mopar Wiring Diagrams
The schematic shown on page 22 seem to match ok, minus some wire color differences.
Interesting thing is, this is for a truck without lean burn. It uses a wire off the starter relay to up the power on the coil during starting, but doesn't appear to care that IGN1 is still powered.
DionR
Well-Known Member
I have to be missing something. The black/pink wire appears to power the heater (this is called ACC2 in the above linked diagram) while the 14 ga black wire (ACC1) between the blue and yellow wire appears to power the radio and horn. So they both should be hot during run. This means I probably need to retest those because it only makes sense that they are both hot in the run position.
DionR
Well-Known Member
Ok, figured out what was going on with the ACC1 wire. It is powered off the red wire in Run and off the pink wire in acc. So it is powered in both, just not from the same source. Weird.
I also found some diagrams, in a Haynes of all places. The Dodge, Plymouth, CHrysler (RWD) book has some schematics and while they aren't comprehensive, they were useful in this case.
This one is from the "Typical C Body" section and shows an ignition switch like I have been messing with where the ACC1 wire is hot on the pink wire for acc and the red wire for run.
The next one is from the "Later M body" section:
So in my car, the black "acc" wire powers the fuses in #2, #3 and #4 cavities all with 20 amp fuses. This would be the heater/AC, radio, wipers, blinkers, reverse lights and rear window defrost (if I had it). In the later M-Body above, they split the radio, wipers and turn signals off to the 18 ga ACC1 wire through two 20 amp fuses and one 5 amp fuse while the header/AC , power windows and a couple other things are on the 12 ga ACC2 wire with two 30 amp fuses and a 20 amp fuse.
So the danger would be, if I wired both the ACC1 and ACC2 wires on the switch to the black wire in my harness, and ran the radio, wipers, heater, turn signals and reverse lights with the key in the acc position, I might be pulling a bit much through the 18 ga wire that is powered in that position.
But it looks like there is an option for an additional circuit on the 18 ga ACC1 wire for fleet accessories. If this fuse is 15 amps or bigger, then the circuit protection on that wire is equal to or greater than the circuit protection on my car currently, which could imply that I should be ok.
Truth is, I have never used the acc position in my car, and doubt I would be using all the circuits even if I did.
Really looks to me like this might work. Only trick left is figuring out how to connect it.
I also found some diagrams, in a Haynes of all places. The Dodge, Plymouth, CHrysler (RWD) book has some schematics and while they aren't comprehensive, they were useful in this case.
This one is from the "Typical C Body" section and shows an ignition switch like I have been messing with where the ACC1 wire is hot on the pink wire for acc and the red wire for run.
The next one is from the "Later M body" section:
So in my car, the black "acc" wire powers the fuses in #2, #3 and #4 cavities all with 20 amp fuses. This would be the heater/AC, radio, wipers, blinkers, reverse lights and rear window defrost (if I had it). In the later M-Body above, they split the radio, wipers and turn signals off to the 18 ga ACC1 wire through two 20 amp fuses and one 5 amp fuse while the header/AC , power windows and a couple other things are on the 12 ga ACC2 wire with two 30 amp fuses and a 20 amp fuse.
So the danger would be, if I wired both the ACC1 and ACC2 wires on the switch to the black wire in my harness, and ran the radio, wipers, heater, turn signals and reverse lights with the key in the acc position, I might be pulling a bit much through the 18 ga wire that is powered in that position.
But it looks like there is an option for an additional circuit on the 18 ga ACC1 wire for fleet accessories. If this fuse is 15 amps or bigger, then the circuit protection on that wire is equal to or greater than the circuit protection on my car currently, which could imply that I should be ok.
Truth is, I have never used the acc position in my car, and doubt I would be using all the circuits even if I did.
Really looks to me like this might work. Only trick left is figuring out how to connect it.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
I looked at that truck Dion and thought "Maybe" but it still shows a ballast resistor. So without that switch in hand, I don't know HERE IS THE THING Others have successfully installed EFI with no problem so I'm not sure I "see" this. It "might be" that if some switches in some cars are a bit "iffy" they might "glitch" sometimes between "S" and "run." But I think normally the answer is way simpler.
Also unless I mis-read that truck diagram it appears ther are TWO battery sources?? Looks like (I think) Red is b1 and Pink is b2?
DionR
Well-Known Member
Yes, both go back to a splice and are power feeds. I think they did it to cut down on the amps in the connection?
I agree it might be overkill to do this swap. But I also have seen several people on here recently saying they couldn't get their new Hemi swap to fire. Someplace I read that those are really picky in this regard and people have had to buy some kind of add on module. I don't think a Magnum swap would care as much unless you are really slow going from start to run, but I do think the G3 Hemi's have an issue with this. And so far it seems like the only solution I have seen is a push button for the starter and divorcing it from the switch entirely.
I could bring you one of these switches when I deliver that 400 if you wanted.
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