If engine is correct why not cut the pipe at the joint and shorten by a bees dick and reweld the pipe giving you a solid finger clearance to tower? How bad is clearance around the steering column etc?
Finally get to pretend I am one of the cool kids - Holley kit swap
- Thread starter DionR
- Start date
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DionR
Well-Known Member
Looks like shifting the k-frame over is a no-go. Based on a square on the frame rails, the lower control arm pins appear to be centered on the frame rails as it sits now.
So I either accept it is off an 1/8” or fix it using something more drastic than I hoped.
So I either accept it is off an 1/8” or fix it using something more drastic than I hoped.
DionR
Well-Known Member
Target is 1.25” offset to the passenger side, but the motor sits at 1.125” offset to the passenger side. Header clears now, but it is tighter than I would like. I think it would be fine with a little push on the inner fender.
I'm not real familiar with the spool type K frames but looking at pictures, it appears that the saddles are straight up and down..maybe level-ish? I wonder if in a previous life, that maybe the car received a jolt and caused them to shift a little. or perhaps the slots are worn, little the engine to sit just a touch lower. would it help if the engine was a little higher in the saddle? Giddy-up! I'd be really tempted to just pie cut something..small pie.. and just shift a little.
DionR
Well-Known Member
Here's a picture of the k-frame in the car:
Yes, saddles are straight up and down. Because one is tied to the steering box mount, I kind of doubt things are bent. And because they are vertical, I don't think wear or something would cause it to set the motor at the wrong offset.
If I don't ignore the offset issue, best idea I have right now is to cut the mounts apart to weld them back together. Not too keen on trying to pie cut the mounts, maybe cut the saddle off square like they do when making a BB k-frame but instead of shifting them back I would shift them towards the PS. Neither option is very exciting to me.
I keep coming back to "it's an eight of an inch". The motor fits and would only need a little clearancing at the DS inner fender. And the header isn't hitting, it's just closer than I would like.
Map63Vette
Well-Known Member
Maybe unlikely, but could it be possible the fender has just moved in a little over time from fatigue? So the "problem" might actually be the fender to begin with, not the K frame? I'm more inclined to believe that it was just tolerances at the time and how things stack up when all assembled together, but makes you think at least.
I thought this was you at first.. Then I saw the borg box. He has same issue
You're at a fork.. Pick a oath and run
DionR
Well-Known Member
I am measuring from the inside of both frame rails to the center of the crank bolt and seeing an offset of 1.125" rather than the 1.25" it should be. So the clearance to the inner fender is more an indication of the wrong offset rather than a structural issue with the inner fender.
DionR
Well-Known Member
You won't hardly ever see me post anything on FB. I might comment on something but other than a marketplace ad and some FWD turbo stuff I tried to give away earlier this year I don't really share anything there.
The fact that he has a similar clearance on that header makes me wonder if Holley didn't build the mounts off 1/8". Maybe their mock up didn't have the motor in the right spot or something. Maybe I should reach out to Holley and point it out.
Now to decide which way I want to go. Decisions, decisions.
Yea, I knew you didn't really there.. That's why I was surprised at first loo, it looked like yours.
Honestly.. I don't think holley is gonna give 2 ***** and people have dealt with it.
You could use a cutoff wheel and widen the slots to the pass side.. Then build a bead down the other side and smooth it.
Just throwing ideas until something sticks. I wanna see this done lol
DionR
Well-Known Member
Yea, I knew you didn't really there.. That's why I was surprised at first loo, it looked like yours.
Honestly.. I don't think holley is gonna give 2 ***** and people have dealt with it.
You could use a cutoff wheel and widen the slots to the pass side.. Then build a bead down the other side and smooth it.
Just throwing ideas until something sticks. I wanna see this done lol
I don't think Holley will care either. Pretty sure the response would be; "A friggin eight of an inch?? Call us back when you have a real problem".
Don't think I will touch the k-frame. My gut says it is in the Holley mounts. And if a cutoff wheel and welder touch anything it will be those. I just have to decide if I want to delay the crossmember and tunnel work to do that or if I am going to ignore it.
I could save it for later; build the new crossmember and trans mount with some adjustability (clearance and slots) so that I can build it square now and put the new motor in right later. Not sure.
340sFastback
Well-Known Member
I would hammer dolly inner fender in and move forward with build and sleep on what if anything else to change/modify. A lot of times punting sleeping on it circling back you gain a better perspective over time.
Only suggesting working on the K because the angles on the mounts can be deceiving and on one side, there isn't alot to play with and they weld those tubes in pretty good.. but a even cut on those and open the cut just a litte (pie) at opposing corners, might just get you enough lean to one side. Then just weld the cuts closed. BTW... this is just the beginning
DionR
Well-Known Member
Been lots of sleeping and thinking on this so far. Tried to move the k-frame last Saturday and the rest of the time I have been kicking around ideas and checking things like how centered the k-frame itself appears to be.
I agree, walking away can have benefits. My problem is I think about it too much and too long, both giving me a headache and resulting in (sometimes) no real progress for way too long.
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DionR
Well-Known Member
Only suggesting working on the K because the angles on the mounts can be deceiving and on one side, there isn't alot to play with and they weld those tubes in pretty good.. but a even cut on those and open the cut just a litte (pie) at opposing corners, might just get you enough lean to one side. Then just weld the cuts closed. BTW... this is just the beginning
If I mess with the mounts, I will create a jig of some type to so I can feel somewhat confident that I can get it right. I don't think I would have to cut the tubes free from the plates on the mounts, just cut the mounts at the engine plate side and fit them up and weld them back on. I can see it in my mind, but that generally doesn't go like I imagine.
When I was making Hooptys mounts, I had to draw out the mounts with correct angles and to scale, when I wanted to shift to one side.. I made a prototype set of mounts from cardboard, while the motor was sitting where I wanted. The Hemi block is 45 degrees (close enough) and then I got the angle off the mounts and width of my perches and worked from there. It can be a little tricky to shift to one side and not cause a lean or change height. Put some osb between the pan and k, and just let it set little there and shift it around a little. You got this.. this is nothing man. Or.. a deadblow
DionR
Well-Known Member
Just trying to decide which way I want to go. The deadblow is definitely the quicker and easier way.
I think I could even modify the mounts without having to leave the motor in.
I think I could even modify the mounts without having to leave the motor in.
340sFastback
Well-Known Member
I always flag tricky issues, press forward, keep going, and circle back. Every project always unexpected difficult issues to over come. Situation normal.
Out of everything that I've thrown against the wall...Changing the slots is the most appealing to me. This could be done in 30 minutes, without any visual changes. You're only shooting for 1/8".. take 1/8" off the the vertical slots (blue) and then add 1/8" to the other side of the slot (green). Do it on both mounts to the pass side. Done! Test fit before welding anything, naturally. And man, the reality is.. you'll never go back to an LA, so any mods you make, won't really have a future effect. Plus, if you did drop one back in.. shifting it right 1/8" will have zero effect.
Welders tip in case you don't know.. You can clamp a piece of copper behind something and use it as a backer. The weld won't stick to it. Build up the edge, knock the copper off and then finish grind.
I agree with 340sFastback and sometimes you just gotta come back to it.. but if your brain is anything like mine.. it won't let go
Welders tip in case you don't know.. You can clamp a piece of copper behind something and use it as a backer. The weld won't stick to it. Build up the edge, knock the copper off and then finish grind.
I agree with 340sFastback and sometimes you just gotta come back to it.. but if your brain is anything like mine.. it won't let go
340sFastback
Well-Known Member
Easiest quickest solution. Agree with use of copper as a backer. I buy copper pipe from local hardware store, slice it, open it up, and hammer flat. Cheap, works great.
DionR
Well-Known Member
I don't think that would work. The mount on the k-frame has a flange that captures the washer. The washer and flange on the mount are what actually keep the motor from lifting. Not sure there is room for the washer if I move the slot over. I could grind one side of the washer down to fit but that feels iffy as the washer would have to be oriented from then on when bolting the mount down.
I agree that I don't expect to ever go back to an LA.
One thing that hadn't occurred to me until this morning is I haven't even tried to twist the motor. It could be that it isn't square in the chassis and my 1/8" could all be because the header is pushing the back of the motor over. Something I now need to look into before I do anything. I might have to pull the motor and remove the header and see how it lands after that.
And yes, my brain is such that I can't just let go of this.
Someday, I need to educate myself on these pesky spool mounts. Could you just grind a little off one edge of the washer? Trying to visualize it
DionR
Well-Known Member
My guess is I would have to grind 1/8" off the edge. I will get a picture later.
Well there ya go.. just D shape it a little.
Side note: Locktite and torque the motor mount to the block. Both of mine were had loosened up over the summer. I didn't locktite them or check actual torque when installing. just gave a good ol 1-2. First motor mounts I've ever seen get loose. To my amazement, the header bolt were all still tight af. Also, clean that oil pan! Mine was filthy right out of the box with fine material.
racerjoe
Well-Known Member
Interesting find on the mount bolts. I usually do spot checks on bolts but never thought to check those. I guess I need to now.
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