FiTech EFI system
- Thread starter 71duster06
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ken5124
65 Valiant Signet
Thanks.. I tried the distributor pickup both ways.. Went home over the lunch hour to check some things.. Think I have been running way too much advance.. heard a bit of detonation last night which caused me to re check timing.
Dumb *** move.. reading the timing off the wrong mark DUH. (stupid mistake)
Backed it way down to where it should be.. still doing some hunting at idle out of gear. but runs way better everywhere else.. I suspect the timing control will work fine when change back to it. Will re check rotor phasing first though. Not sure how it was working so far advanced before before ???
Will get it straightened around over the next few evenings
Dumb *** move.. reading the timing off the wrong mark DUH. (stupid mistake)
Backed it way down to where it should be.. still doing some hunting at idle out of gear. but runs way better everywhere else.. I suspect the timing control will work fine when change back to it. Will re check rotor phasing first though. Not sure how it was working so far advanced before before ???
Will get it straightened around over the next few evenings
ken5124
65 Valiant Signet
Soooo, It's running ,, but at idle with IAC at about 7-10, every 30 seconds or so, it drops down to about 400 rpm and the IAC opens to allow air in to recover to 12 to 1300 rpm before it settles back down, and so on and so on.
Seems like a vacuum leak to me, and probably a PCV valve that is hanging open most times, and then slowly shuts down, cutting off that extra air and driving the rpm down until the IAC allows air back in.
Am I on the right track ? I will take the PCV valve out of the equation later for the next test.
Seems like a vacuum leak to me, and probably a PCV valve that is hanging open most times, and then slowly shuts down, cutting off that extra air and driving the rpm down until the IAC allows air back in.
Am I on the right track ? I will take the PCV valve out of the equation later for the next test.
Phreakish
Well-Known Member
Hard to say. What's your afr do when that happens? Using timing control? What's the advance do when the rpm drops? How high does the iac go?
What's your initial timing at the moment? Is it verified with a timing light?
Mayne data log the idle and post some numbers or a screen capture of the data.
It could very well be a misfire or the timing is moving to try and hold idle and its not helping. Could be too lean or rich of an afr. Could be the learn value moving too fast, or the afr jumping too much at a time.
This was exactly what I had and reducing the idle learn and loop rate helped a bunch. As did making the afr jumps smaller.
ken5124
65 Valiant Signet
Thanks !
Not using timing control for now. Afr jumps lean. idle AFR set at 14.10. tried it richer and leaner and it made no difference in the random drop off.It will be idling at 840 and then drop off. IAC will jump to 30-50 to compensate.
I put a new PCV VALVE on and no change. Blocked off the PCV Valve with my finger and RPMs still dropped off. Appears random, and will hold for a minute or 2 sometimes, then fall.
Other interesting thing, if I have it in gear, then it won't fall??
Initial timing 14, verified by timing light. Have to see if timing is changing when it drops. Not using any vacuum advance at this time.
No fault codes on the ecu.
Going to check for a possible vacuum leak under the throttle body, as that's the only thing that was off the motor since it worked ok. I have changed the idle loop up and down already.
Unfortunately I have to work during the day, so, may not get back to it till tomorrow night
Phreakish
Well-Known Member
@ken5124 Exactly what I had: no load idle would randomly drop but recover. It's good to eliminate any possible vac leaks, but that may not be it.
Go into 'afr closed loop' then scroll down to idle fuel learn rate. Turn this down to 2-3.
Then scroll up to 'idle trim jump' both pos and neg. Write down what they are, then try setting them at 10~15. Write down your AFR loop speed, and then cut it in half. Remember to 'send' each change after you edit the value by pushing the button. Then go to 'idle trim rate' and write them down too - but then lower them to about half the default. The POS value should be higher than the neg by 10-30% (based on my playing).
Then go to idle control. Look at the Loop rate up/down. Lower your 'down' setting to very low. 1/2 to 1/4 the default value.
Doing all this should have immediate effect on your idle quality. I did this while idling in the garage. It went from a choppy 600~1100 idle that sounded like it wanted to die on the low end, to a solid 850 and varies by less than +-75.
Go into 'afr closed loop' then scroll down to idle fuel learn rate. Turn this down to 2-3.
Then scroll up to 'idle trim jump' both pos and neg. Write down what they are, then try setting them at 10~15. Write down your AFR loop speed, and then cut it in half. Remember to 'send' each change after you edit the value by pushing the button. Then go to 'idle trim rate' and write them down too - but then lower them to about half the default. The POS value should be higher than the neg by 10-30% (based on my playing).
Then go to idle control. Look at the Loop rate up/down. Lower your 'down' setting to very low. 1/2 to 1/4 the default value.
Doing all this should have immediate effect on your idle quality. I did this while idling in the garage. It went from a choppy 600~1100 idle that sounded like it wanted to die on the low end, to a solid 850 and varies by less than +-75.
72Duster440
Well-Known Member
I'll have to try that as well, mine stumbles randomly at idle and the timing bounces all over when it does according to the data log. It doesn't sound as bad as your guy's issue, but if I can tune it out, I might as well.
ken5124
65 Valiant Signet
Just installed a FiTEch EFI on a Magnum 360 in a 67 Dodge Dart.
Very happy with the results! It took a lot of tinkering on my part since we are re-wiring the whole car and changing a lot of items. Wasted a lot of time not purchasing the MSD Pro-Billet from the beginning, and not installing a jumper wire from IGN1 to IGN2 to by-pass all the ballast BS. Since we are working with a painless kit and the original switch it tripped us up for quite a while.
Suggested to Pace Performance to put together a kit with the Street 600hp, FCC, and Lockout Dizzy ready to go. I would have sold them 2 more kits last week if they want to put that together (all Chevy guys at work).
Very poor documentation on the Timing control, I have worked with the FAST and Megasquirt items in the past but they need to clean that up. I still don't comprehend why they need the phasable rotor, and talking to Tech Support they describe a completely different way to install it.
We have a lot more tuning to go on the car, but installing new gauges and finishing the wiring before we drive it (slowly) so it can learn and then I will start messing with the tunable options.
Very happy with the results! It took a lot of tinkering on my part since we are re-wiring the whole car and changing a lot of items. Wasted a lot of time not purchasing the MSD Pro-Billet from the beginning, and not installing a jumper wire from IGN1 to IGN2 to by-pass all the ballast BS. Since we are working with a painless kit and the original switch it tripped us up for quite a while.
Suggested to Pace Performance to put together a kit with the Street 600hp, FCC, and Lockout Dizzy ready to go. I would have sold them 2 more kits last week if they want to put that together (all Chevy guys at work).
Very poor documentation on the Timing control, I have worked with the FAST and Megasquirt items in the past but they need to clean that up. I still don't comprehend why they need the phasable rotor, and talking to Tech Support they describe a completely different way to install it.
We have a lot more tuning to go on the car, but installing new gauges and finishing the wiring before we drive it (slowly) so it can learn and then I will start messing with the tunable options.
You and i had a phone conversation as you were working on your buddies car correct? If anyone needs a new, pace purchased, pro billet distributor pre locked I will do it for $50. tsp or msd. If that helps anyone else out.
There are several videos out on the rotor phasing and what it does. Essentially your are verifying that crank TDC is in fact matched to the distributors shaft/terminal pole position. Engines are VERY commonly 2-6 degrees off.
So...at low load cruise, the fitech throws a load of timing at the engine for economy. If its off another 6 degrees, you are on the verge of spark jump, or detonating. If that helps the reasoning
Hi Johnny- What distributors are you recommending for the FiTechs? Can you provide some URLs? Thanks!
74SwingerSpe
Well-Known Member
Check out Johnny's post on this thread #795.
Excellent. Thank you sir!
Sure,
I'm sure they are in this thread somewhere, but i'll past them again.
Distributors
phasable rotor required for timing control. (PRO BILLET FITMENT ONLY)
MSD PHASABLE ROTOR FOR PRO-SERIES BILLET DISTRIBUTORS
back to basics...timing control has to be with a pro-billet. ($166 ish) non-timing control can work with the HEI module small or big.
you can NOT use the cheapo mallory clones, unless you're running an external box.
Coils also
Ignition Coils
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you boys beat me to it.lol thanks
BTW, Purchasing the TSP and Phase Rotor from Pace Performance. Paid for expedited shipping. The distributor was on backorder which they communicated to me the following day after ordering the items. It shipped regular instead of expedited, and they refunded me the entire shipping costs not just the difference.
Very impressed with their customer service and professionalism. I have already recommended them to two fellow car builders.
Very impressed with their customer service and professionalism. I have already recommended them to two fellow car builders.
340Duster247
Well-Known Member
Well I pulled the trigger. Hopefully it all works out on my 408 stroker.
I'll post pics when done and let you all know how it goes.
I'll post pics when done and let you all know how it goes.
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340Duster247
Well-Known Member
I know it's been asked before, but I didn't read a strait answer and want to double check with my set up. I'm going to run timing control, and wiring the system with my MSD box. My question is where are all you guys running your white acc. wire. I just want to make sure I'm getting the Acc. Power when cranking.
74SwingerSpe
Well-Known Member
Hi 340Duster247,
I believe if you want to use the FiTech timing control, then you can't use the MSD box. You can use the MSD but, but timing will need to be handled by the distributor.
Travis
Phreakish
Well-Known Member
Page 10, figure 12 of the manual shows how to connect the system with an MSD box.
The only time timing control won't work is with an HEI style distributor and electronics.
Any constant hot 12V, that includes crank and run.
some guys have been pulling a choke wire. others source the fuse box.
340Duster247
Well-Known Member
I know all about the timing control and using an MSD box(figure 12) all I wanted to know was where guys are pulling a constant 12volts acc when cranking.
340Duster247
Well-Known Member
That's what I did. Now I need to take on the rotor phasing. Before my engine was locked out at 34. Didn't mind it at all. Ran best there.
If I follow fitechs instructions. Can I set my base timing at 20 or 25 and go from there?
My first time phasing a rotor....
If I follow fitechs instructions. Can I set my base timing at 20 or 25 and go from there?
My first time phasing a rotor....
Phreakish
Well-Known Member
You *Can* do anything you want, whether it works or not is the question. Phasing isn't tough, and can be worked out so long as you have adjustable parts.
I know that I was able to use a stock distributor set to 10deg base timing and then tweaked from there - so far, no crossfire issues.
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