Harold's F'ing me over - big time.

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It's almost been 2 years, FILE....:rambo:.........:nike:
 
MoparLvr said:
There seems to be lots of talk about this guy. If he's that bad stop buying from him. It's simple.
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Problem is he makes somthing that is unique. If anyone wants to go into the header business in Ontario let me know. What is stopping someone?Does he own the pattern? Are the Laysons units the same?
 
OK,
first of all how much was Laysons asking for headers, I called them and they actually called back and they said they did not know anything about them!???
I may be a position in a few months to start a business and was actually thinking about the header situation. I was thinking about a set of smallblock midlength headers with 3/8" flanges, regular steel, for $350. If ceramic coating was desired I would shunt that through Cuda Chick.
Thoughts?
Andrew
 
blue missile said:
OK,
first of all how much was Laysons asking for headers, I called them and they actually called back and they said they did not know anything about them!???
I may be a position in a few months to start a business and was actually thinking about the header situation. I was thinking about a set of smallblock midlength headers with 3/8" flanges, regular steel, for $350. If ceramic coating was desired I would shunt that through Cuda Chick.
Thoughts?
Andrew
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Great idea, the need has been established.
 
I know the need is there, I was talking about the pricing. I will be making a set for the missile, but if the product is to be made available to all of you, it has to make enough money to support the business.
Andrew
 
65Vart said:
Problem is he makes somthing that is unique. If anyone wants to go into the header business in Ontario let me know. What is stopping someone?Does he own the pattern? Are the Laysons units the same?
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The man's going to keep doing what he is doing as long as people are buying from him.
 
I think the price would hold as long as the headers were a little nicer than Harold's. His serve the purpose, are built well, and fit but less visible welds and a more "finished" look would carry a higher price.
 
well at least old Harold is consistent...not really....but he has been a crappy business man since he started screwing people around 5 years ago. I was interested in him using my 72 Dart as a car to develop the headers on....many years ago. But his email skills were bad....so I blew it off.
 
Harold is a real joke to deal with. I talk to him 5 times with in the last 2 months about a set of headers. He keeps telling me they are sent out or I forgot they will be sent out Friday. I would like to find someone else who can make or carries under chassy headers.
 
blue missile said:
OK,
first of all how much was Laysons asking for headers, I called them and they actually called back and they said they did not know anything about them!???
I may be a position in a few months to start a business and was actually thinking about the header situation. I was thinking about a set of smallblock midlength headers with 3/8" flanges, regular steel, for $350. If ceramic coating was desired I would shunt that through Cuda Chick.
Thoughts?
Andrew
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i saw them at carlisle or the nats i forget which one a few years ago. i believe they had $450 on them. they looked exactly like spit fires.
 
WELL I tried to call Harold ( just to see if I could even get him to send them COD) and he does not answer his phone tried like 5 different times during a day...VOICE MAIL and nothing more...Left messages for him to call me back...NADDA....tried for 8 days and I am done with that idea. Tried calling Laysons...they said someone beside Harold as building their version BUT that Co. was out of business and the Laysons headers are on "backorder" which from Laysons means you will likely see the return of Elvis before they come off "backorder" AND essentially the same header that Harold sells for $250, Laysons priced out at $550.... SO I began to look at the "Box Stores" Jegs etc.... and read countless blogs and message boards...the long & the short of it.... even the high end headers need to be "finessed" dimpled etc etc etc...for my money it is better served to have them custom made right to the vehicle....they will fit them will be removable I will be able to change the regular starter etc etc.... NO $250 extra for a mini and no dropping the entire front end. Honestly it is worth it to just pay the $$ and have them custom fit to YOUR car/set up. Cracks me up that we all spend large $$ on building the engine and then the exhaust & tranny get the left over crumbs. I have seen the light and I am going for it. Screw the Scammers and the double price gougers and the guys charging 800+ for something that needs to be tweeked all over the place.....find a good header guy and just forget the LOW price ripoffs and stuff that will give you headaches trying to squeeze & schlep them into the early small block A ...have them MADE to fit your car and call it a day I am so sick of hearing how ONE idiot holds so many good people hostage with the lure of low priced never delivered stuff....PAsture Pattys!! give your life a break, stop thrashing trying to get a DEAL that never materializes....if ya cant do it this year save up and do it next year or the year after...GOOD things take time!!
For those of you that got a set that were actually delivered God Bless ya!! I am happy for your deal...for those of you who sent him money... life is filled with lessons and none of them are free..... you just learned that "TOO good to be true " is a very REAL situation THAT CAN happen to YOU....the warnings have been plastered across this and MANY other sites for at least 3 years!!! I can see one or two people being frustrated but there has to be at least 30 that this guy has pealed like a Banana...... one guy has a freeking website DEVOTED TO HAROLD BASHING he has waited 3 years and still has ZIPPO!!
FORGET this guy! do not let yourself be drawn into his lure, spread the word.... his headers are crap anyway I spent several hours talking with a GM exhaust engineer and the guy took the picture of Harolds design and painstakingly plugged it into his simulator at the GM design center.....harolds design actually causes damage and based on the TRI Y the flow, mix & pull ( exhaust synergy ) whatever the hell that is, comes out to be below that of a standard 340 cast iron manifold in fact its worse that that OF A standard 318 cast manifold!!! You would be better served to buy a handful of lottery tickets and go have your headers made to fit and spend your time killing bugs vs wondering how to get good old Harold to pony up
 
66cuda,

Would your engineer design a set of headers that would work and fit correctly. If so why don't you and him sell the design to someone to make the headers?
 
I was kind of thinking the same thing........ If there is a genuine market for this type of header (and it sounds like there is),why hasn't someone stepped on top of this numbsky and cut in on the action..............
Daryl
 
I spent several hours talking with a GM exhaust engineer and the guy took the picture of Harolds design and painstakingly plugged it into his simulator at the GM design center.....harolds design actually causes damage and based on the TRI Y the flow, mix & pull ( exhaust synergy ) whatever the hell that is, comes out to be below that of a standard 340 cast iron manifold in fact its worse that that OF A standard 318 cast manifold!!!
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just shows that engineers and computers can be wrong. I have personally felt the night and day difference between a 340 manifold and spitfire headers. The improovement was incredible when we bolted the header on. That engineer put some data in wrong. Is it a perfect design? I'm sure it isn't. But it does work and work pretty well in my opinion. A full length header I'm sure would still be better but spitfires do work quit nicely.
 
What is the primary tubing diameter on these headers?
What size is the collectors?

Are these sizes appropriate with everyone, or is there a better / more ideal configuration?

Would you want them with the a 3 bolt header flange, 2 bolt ball type flange, or as seen with straight flange?
 
I spoke to Harold this evening. He stated that he is reworking his design and it will be a month or two before he starts shipping parts for A bodies again.
 
Oaklacar & 440WIP.... this guy builds custom headers to YOUR car ON your car. That is his business, he does custom exhaust. I asked him to copy the set he makes for me and put them up for sale...his reply was kind of interesting!? he asked me WHY? he said why should he make headers for customers he has never seen...I had no answer. He further explained that he has no intention of trying to compete with TTI ( and others) who already do it...why bother? Makes sense to me. He builds custom exhaust to each of his customers cars. TTI's and Hooker & Hedman are already doing that.... his point being the only way to ensure a positive correct fit that does not require modifaction of any kind , no dimples etc etc...is to custom make the headers for the specific car in question. He has a point.

AbodyJoe
engineers and computers can be wrong NO dispute there. a quick check of your credit score and IRS records along with several attempts to keep airliners airborn via computer prove that beyond a doubt. HOWEVER....the manifolds used were the 340 TA types and they have been repeatedly tested by several competent technical sources to be around 5% less efficient than TTI or Hooker headers.....which are presumably a marked percentage more efficient than spitfires....leaving a range less than 5% for the spitfires. benefit of doubt 2.5% ....the tri Y design causes somesort of undesired turbulence which reduces the pull & flow synergy produced by full sized headers and is said to reduce the overall efficiency to equal or below the stock TA manifolds ( not regular stock 340 manifolds :) My only question to you ( not sarcastic ) is you claim to be able to "feel" a potential 2.5% improvement? OR you were not using the TA manifolds? if you were not using them then you likely felt an improvement in excess of 2.5% which maybe makes sense, but if you are telling me that you felt a possible 2.5% improvement, then you are one sensitive guy!! ( friendly sarcastic) And I would bet you would also notice a pea under your mattress.
IF I was forced to pick between the top technical exhaust designer at GM using his multi million dollar computers and software and what You feel .... no offense but my money rides with Him. THAT coupled with Harolds poor business practices , poor communication COD requirement and a wait time that exceeds the "second coming" leads me away from even considering Spitfires for any reason.
just my 2 cents
 
hey 66...

I've ran mainfolds on my 66 cuda - 71 340 manifolds ran 13.3 @102

I've ran spitfires, they run 12.80 @108 through the same exhaust

thats one hell of a pea under my mattress.

I used to just chirp the wheels when i stabbed it

then went to spitfires and then I could slide left and right through 1st gear - again same setup, same exhaust - swapped to the spitfire headers.

let me say this again,,,, with the facts I just provided....

Spitfires made MORE POWER on my 66 cuda then manifolds...

you can put your percentages, and testing babble all you want - I increased mph in the quarter, and thats power, I also went through tires faster, and can definately feel peas under my mattress...

can you "feel" 6 mph in the quarter? I could... and Joe helped me install them and sat in the seat as we blasted down my street for the first time with them...

you cant argue your percentages VS a time slip!



PS - after a converter change it has gone 12.56 @ 108 with the spitfires... never got into the 12's with manifolds!
 
DJV.... I will try this one more time for your sake.
First off my point WAS NOT that headers can or cannot improve your time. MY point in the ( Harolds F'in me over thread) was that his headers are not worth dealing with him and that ain't "babble" .... you had good luck Hooray for you....there are at least 20 guys that can't get his headers or have waited for them for months & months & months if they come at all. The guy has comments about his non responsiveness on several sites, ONE devoted specifically to him and his non performance ..... there are several guys HERE on FABO that have been either ripped off or in progress for far too long after paying him. The secondary conversation was that coupled with dealing with his pathetic business practices, his headers ain't all that, maybe you got a different build than what was tested by us, think about that? MOST know that Harold has had several different "designs" and several different builds...maybe the one I had spec'd was an early design with smaller tubes or poor welding.....and that lil fact can account for the results obtained by both of us. I am not here trying to throw mud and I outlined the "sarcastic" parts so they would not become or be interpreted as insults.
I do not and would not take any classic vehicle to the strip for competition, so your time slip means nothing to me. I am not building "race cars" I am building classic cars that are fun, not competitive....competition for me is based on looks and body and mechanically sound classic vehicles. sure they scoot OK and burn tires up...but no one in my crowd goes to the strip with their classics and none of them have ever blown a classic motor or trans apart. a very few of them do have "race cars" in addition to their classics but those cars are mostly fiberglass and tube frames and fuel cells and super chargers with engines & drive trains that cost several tens of thousands of dollars .... they run in the 8's & 9's and they run headers but not spitfires and they are not run on the street.
Bottom Line: ( not sarcastic but very matter of fact-ly)
IF a time slip is how you measure your car we are on totally different planes. AND if you are willing to deal with Harolds antics to get your headers then you have my sympathy. BUT if you are trying to impress me with your shadetree race car's time slip you failed and if you are trying to suggest that I engage Harold and annoy myself and wait endlessly, you are sadly misguided.
I am very happy that you can feel the pea and that you are "that sensitive," I just hope you don't break a nail hitting second. LOL lighten up
66cuda
 
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