Here are the numbers the Calculators are coming up with:
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Help me find the umph in my 360
- Thread starter dustyaman
- Start date
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Possibly you are feeling the converter Locking Up in second gear, instead of not making it into 3rd yet??
Poor adjustment of the Lokar Cables, not getting the shift points right???
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Looking like you are taking your mph/rpm readings while it is still in second gear, the way these numbers are coming out.
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Poor adjustment of the Lokar Cables, not getting the shift points right???
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Looking like you are taking your mph/rpm readings while it is still in second gear, the way these numbers are coming out.
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I don't know what size the combustion chambers are on a Speedmaster head, but for what it's worth, the pistons in my 360 (67 Barracuda) are .100 in the hole at TDC. With 62 cc Indy LAX heads and .24-.28 thick composition head gaskets my CR calculates to 9.5 to one, give or take a tenth or two depending on the actual head gasket thickness. Not ideal, and not the best setup for quench, but it works well enough I'm not gonna spend $$$$$$ to rebuild the motor. And it doesn't lack for low end torque. In fact, it will burn a set of street tires all the way through low gear. That's why I'm running Nitto 275/60/15 drag radials on the street.
But if the OP's CR is 8:1, milling the heads and running thinner head gaskets will bump the CR up significantly. Personally, I don't think the OP's cam is too much for his setup if it were properly tuned and had a better torque converter. But then what do I know??
But if the OP's CR is 8:1, milling the heads and running thinner head gaskets will bump the CR up significantly. Personally, I don't think the OP's cam is too much for his setup if it were properly tuned and had a better torque converter. But then what do I know??
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honestly now thinking about it the rpm gauge was setup on the 6cy for the slant 6 that was in the car, and i honestly cant remembering changing that to 8 on the gauge. Man would that be a big relief if it was just that on at least the rpm issue. Crossing fingers when i get home lol!
Thinking through all of this = Big Brain Teaser....
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Honestly i forgot that gauge has the 3 settings on it. I will update what i find tonight everyone.
OK, UPDATE TIME!!!
So first thing, The rpm being to high... found the issue, it was the tach. I never reset it to run on 8cyl mode when I swapped the slant 6 to the 360. Huge sigh of relief. So when I thought my car was idling at 1000 rpm was technically 600 rpm.
Second: attached photo is my exhaust was tapping my transmission cross member. So when I turned through a round a bout, basically a big circle for any of you that's never scene one, the exhaust had adjusted and basically had it tapping the crap out of my transmission mount. Took it off and dented the tube with a 4 pound sledge. Never going to let that happen again lol. I believe that was the terrible sound i heard and fealt this morning on the way to work. I'm stopping there tonight. I will work on looking at cam timing tomorrow and verify if it is truly set at top dead center or if was installed retarded/advanced.. And still maybe shop for a different cam. Maybe get a new one Maybe not.
So first thing, The rpm being to high... found the issue, it was the tach. I never reset it to run on 8cyl mode when I swapped the slant 6 to the 360. Huge sigh of relief. So when I thought my car was idling at 1000 rpm was technically 600 rpm.
Second: attached photo is my exhaust was tapping my transmission cross member. So when I turned through a round a bout, basically a big circle for any of you that's never scene one, the exhaust had adjusted and basically had it tapping the crap out of my transmission mount. Took it off and dented the tube with a 4 pound sledge. Never going to let that happen again lol. I believe that was the terrible sound i heard and fealt this morning on the way to work. I'm stopping there tonight. I will work on looking at cam timing tomorrow and verify if it is truly set at top dead center or if was installed retarded/advanced.. And still maybe shop for a different cam. Maybe get a new one Maybe not.
That will put you at 2250 rpm at 50 mph, 67 mph at 3000 rpm. Makes a lot more sense.
Probably another reason why she fealt sluggish. When I'm in drive thinking it was at 900 it was like at 500 is probably another reason it fealt really sluggish also.
To get a feel where you are with cam timing.
Bring it up to fire TDC on cylinder #6 compression stroke.
Now cylinder #1 will be transitioning between intake and exhaust.
Put a straight edge on the push rod end of the rocker arms, if they are level to each other then the cam is installed straight up.
If the exhaust rocker is higher then the cam is advanced.
If the intake rocker is higher then it is retarded.
Taking into consideration Performance Cams usually have a 4° advance ground into them, so this should show up even when the cam is installed straight up. Dot to Dot.
Worthy of a deeper look.
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Bring it up to fire TDC on cylinder #6 compression stroke.
Now cylinder #1 will be transitioning between intake and exhaust.
Put a straight edge on the push rod end of the rocker arms, if they are level to each other then the cam is installed straight up.
If the exhaust rocker is higher then the cam is advanced.
If the intake rocker is higher then it is retarded.
Taking into consideration Performance Cams usually have a 4° advance ground into them, so this should show up even when the cam is installed straight up. Dot to Dot.
Worthy of a deeper look.
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Couple of points:
- a tq conv always has some slippage [ only a lock up con vert in LU mode has no slippage ]
- the slight surging you are feeling at slower cruise speeds is because of the cam duration/overlap
- the cam has 5* of advance ground into it. The LSA is 112*. If the cam is correctly ground & everything is machined accurately, then if you installed the cam on the '0' mark of your timing chain set, the ICL is 107. So it is already 5* advanced from the 'straight up' position & I would not advance it any more than an extra 4*.
- a muuuuuuuch better cam for your combo would be the Isky Mega 270. It will idle better [ has 15* less seat timing ] & perform better everywhere else. You can get the current lifters re-faced if they are ok & use them.
- a tq conv always has some slippage [ only a lock up con vert in LU mode has no slippage ]
- the slight surging you are feeling at slower cruise speeds is because of the cam duration/overlap
- the cam has 5* of advance ground into it. The LSA is 112*. If the cam is correctly ground & everything is machined accurately, then if you installed the cam on the '0' mark of your timing chain set, the ICL is 107. So it is already 5* advanced from the 'straight up' position & I would not advance it any more than an extra 4*.
- a muuuuuuuch better cam for your combo would be the Isky Mega 270. It will idle better [ has 15* less seat timing ] & perform better everywhere else. You can get the current lifters re-faced if they are ok & use them.
Yes I installed it dot to dot when I put the cam in. So technically me adding that much more advance to it when installing should of gave me more torque down low anyways. Tonight I'm going to go through a whole start over on the Tuning process. Since I thought my park idle was at 1000 when it was in "6cyl mode" on the tach my idle has been wrong this whole time. So I will adjust everything accordingly when I get back from work tonight. That is probably the reason why when I would gun it from idle it fealt so sluggish. With raising the idle to the right point and such it should feel much more snappy. When I started the car after changing the tach setting it was idling at 500 rpm. So hopefully it runs better after some adjustments.
Ok update number 2:
So fixed the idle now, since I had it idling at 500 rpm instead of 1000 because of it being set in 6cyl mode on tach. So idle is now set at 1000 in park, 850 in drive idle, I took some cable back out on transmission pressure tension, shifts way better now. Now on to the meet and potatoes, so with me adding 4 degrees extra to the camshaft by installing it dot to dot on the gears, when it already had 4 degrees ground into it. I guess it's in the engine at 8 degrees advanced. So when I was messing with ignition timing I noticed the engine loves 26 degrees mechanical initial timing and almost seems like it wants more. It starts great, idles great has no "sluggish drive idle off throttle tendencys" has really fast response on mashing the gas in first gear. But I am having a issue with the engine spitting up around 4000 rpm when flooring it in first. My afr gauge shows around 11.5 afr when full throttle occurs. It doesn't do this in idle revving, only under load. Now my carburetor is a edelbrock 1405 and my gas pressure is at 5.5 psi, running 91 octane, I have iridium plugs in it that come with a .045 gap. Probably wrong plugs but just wanted to throw them into the stuff I'm using for this question. Summit racing billet distubitor, orange box, stock coil, and still have ballast resistor. Wires are new, basically everything is new. Except coil. I do have a msd coil on the shelf but have not put it in yet. So question I'm asking is what would make the engine spit and sputter at the higher rpms under a load at full throttle.
Ps: this car burns rubber good now runs and cruises alot better and has plenty of low end grunt now.
So fixed the idle now, since I had it idling at 500 rpm instead of 1000 because of it being set in 6cyl mode on tach. So idle is now set at 1000 in park, 850 in drive idle, I took some cable back out on transmission pressure tension, shifts way better now. Now on to the meet and potatoes, so with me adding 4 degrees extra to the camshaft by installing it dot to dot on the gears, when it already had 4 degrees ground into it. I guess it's in the engine at 8 degrees advanced. So when I was messing with ignition timing I noticed the engine loves 26 degrees mechanical initial timing and almost seems like it wants more. It starts great, idles great has no "sluggish drive idle off throttle tendencys" has really fast response on mashing the gas in first gear. But I am having a issue with the engine spitting up around 4000 rpm when flooring it in first. My afr gauge shows around 11.5 afr when full throttle occurs. It doesn't do this in idle revving, only under load. Now my carburetor is a edelbrock 1405 and my gas pressure is at 5.5 psi, running 91 octane, I have iridium plugs in it that come with a .045 gap. Probably wrong plugs but just wanted to throw them into the stuff I'm using for this question. Summit racing billet distubitor, orange box, stock coil, and still have ballast resistor. Wires are new, basically everything is new. Except coil. I do have a msd coil on the shelf but have not put it in yet. So question I'm asking is what would make the engine spit and sputter at the higher rpms under a load at full throttle.
Ps: this car burns rubber good now runs and cruises alot better and has plenty of low end grunt now.
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Had a similar issue recently. Ok while in park/neutral but sputtered under load. Turned out to be the distributor. I believe it was from the timing/advance and reluctor phasing. Check the gap there too. I think it's .010. Had a spare distributor so I never really found the cause. Ran good after the swap.
Dusty,
Post #89. Great results & on the right track:
- Irid plugs are good, as long as the correct heat range. NGK 5 heat range.
- 26* at idle & wanting more. Not surprised. Give it more if it wants more. Cut back the centri curve. You can also use vac adv connected to manifold vac [ MVA] to add idle timing. Adding idle timing helps the engine run cooler, & helps tip in response. Engine I tuned last Sunday liked 45*. A most misunderstood topic.
- spluttering under load could be too much timing, fuel related, lifter pump up or poor ign. If you use another coil [ like MSD ], check to see if a bal res is needed with it & make sure you use THAT bal res. Coil & BR need to be matched.
More on MVA benefits [ Chrys failed here ] , scroll down to post #6:
www.hotrodders.com/forum/vacuum-advance-hooked-up-directly-manifold-bad-47495.html
Post #89. Great results & on the right track:
- Irid plugs are good, as long as the correct heat range. NGK 5 heat range.
- 26* at idle & wanting more. Not surprised. Give it more if it wants more. Cut back the centri curve. You can also use vac adv connected to manifold vac [ MVA] to add idle timing. Adding idle timing helps the engine run cooler, & helps tip in response. Engine I tuned last Sunday liked 45*. A most misunderstood topic.
- spluttering under load could be too much timing, fuel related, lifter pump up or poor ign. If you use another coil [ like MSD ], check to see if a bal res is needed with it & make sure you use THAT bal res. Coil & BR need to be matched.
More on MVA benefits [ Chrys failed here ] , scroll down to post #6:
www.hotrodders.com/forum/vacuum-advance-hooked-up-directly-manifold-bad-47495.html
And I think my coil just went out was revving good up to 5000 rpm and the engine shut off. I measured the ohms on the coil and it was at 0. So i think that's been the issue this whole time. Luckily I have a new coil sitting on a shelf. Have to run home to get it. Had to get help from work buddy to tow the rest of the way to work.
When I crank the motor and look at the slot for the disty it doesn't move. It stays in the same orientation
It's also a brand new melling shaft also.
k.. the gear on the intermediate shaft is usually pinned in, it's rare but they can shear the pin.. if you are lucky nothing else is hurt (it shouldn't have run at all when it sheared) new shaft time... unless you are using a high volume pump i would just use a stock shaft.. but that's me.
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