Hotchkis TVS with QA1 lower control arms

Suspension, Steering and Chassis

  1. drewmac

    drewmac Well-Known Member

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    Nice thanks. I had initially bought the post 73 TVS kit due to the disc break conversion I did to the later disc's; then realized the front bar needed the post 73 k-member too!? Jegs were great on the exchange. Live and learn.
     
  2. briwill70

    briwill70 Well-Known Member

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    I took a picture of the QA1 LCA next to an early stock arm for reference. Very different tab location.

    dart lca.jpg
     
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    • 72bluNblu

      72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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      Correct, very different from the 67-72 tab location. Next to a 73+ tabbed arm they’re nearly identical.

      On my Duster I went from a factory 73+ tabbed LCA to the QA1’s. I shortened the end link slightly for the QA1 LCS’s, but that was the only change I made for the 73+ Hellwig bar I run. The tab on the QA1 is a little different in the vertical plane, but the end link was still nicely aligned. Just needed to be a smidge shorter.
       
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      • drewmac

        drewmac Well-Known Member

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        I believe you but does anyone have a pic for reference?
         
      • briwill70

        briwill70 Well-Known Member

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        I l found a pic of a later LCA and layered it over the others. Perspective is slightly different but appears to be very close.

        Screen Shot 2020-03-05 at 3.50.51 PM.png
         
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        • drewmac

          drewmac Well-Known Member

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          Thank you so much. That really helps my nugget get around all this. Come on Hotchkiss match up!!!
           
        • drewmac

          drewmac Well-Known Member

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          72bluNblu thanks for all the info. I looked back in the thread and saw the pic you posted of your set up. That is what I hope to match with the Hotchkiss set up. Your awesome!
           
        • GMachineDartGT

          GMachineDartGT Senior Member

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          I’ve spoke to QA1 about this. Without getting into details, I’d bet they are working on this now. Nublu argued with me over and over saying the tabs were in the 73 and up spot. They aren’t. I went through this on a customers car. Unlike many internet people, I don’t speak unless I have a valid reason to back it up. I’ve had early and late sway bars and lower arms all at the same time on the same car to determine this. The bottom line with QA 1 - IF you have a 72 and down k and their arms there is NO bolt in solution.
           
        • 72bluNblu

          72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          Say what now?
          screen-shot-2020-03-05-at-3-50-51-pm-png.png

          The QA1 LCA tab is what, within a 1/4" of that stock 73+ LCA tab on the longitudinal plane? And within an 1" or so on the vertical plane? The vertical plane is an easy fix, it's just a shorter end link.

          My '74. With a Hellwig bar that uses the stock 73+ mounts.
          IMG_4373.jpeg

          My '74 again. Same sway bar, but with QA1 LCA's. You can see the end link is shorter, and there is a slight angle change on the endlink. Well within functional, and probably no more than you'd get with the factory tolerances anyway.
          IMG_4412.jpeg

          The only argument here is if the Hotchkis 67-72 sway bar works with the 73+ tabs. Here's a nice clear picture of the '67-72 Hotchkis bar. This is from this article on an '69 Valiant suspension upgrade Complete Suspension Upgrade on a 1969 Plymouth Valiant - Car Craft Magazine - Hot Rod

          It's not the exact same picture, but you can clearly see the relation between the LCA tab used here and the strut rod is almost identical to the 73+ location, and therefore quite similar to the QA1 location as well. The strut rods are in the same location for the whole 67-76 run. I have the Hotchkis 67-72 bar for my '71 GT, I've been through the instructions and their description of the mounting tab location is basically identical to the 73+ tab location. Hopefully @drewmac will put this to rest once and for all.

          [​IMG]
           
        • BergmanAutoCraft

          BergmanAutoCraft FABO Vendor FABO Vendor

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          I say it's close but not the same. Unless their is a ball joint to account for the misalignment its going to be binding some. Suite yourself. Fits and works properly are two different things.
           
        • drewmac

          drewmac Well-Known Member

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          Ok guys and gals here is where I am at. I got the Hkiss bars finally (holy smokes it is bigger than the stock bar x2 in front!). QA1 arms, 67 k member 67-72 Hkiss bar. The mounts they gave actually bolt up to the stock mounts on the formula S K member (plus 1 new hole and bolt) damn near the same location! Now the arms have to be raised about 1" and then everything bolts together when on stands. At full droop it would not unless I did a little clearancing on the arm and the sway bar. Pics to come as soon as I get a pass lower ball joint.
           
        • briwill70

          briwill70 Well-Known Member

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          Any progress on this? I still need a sway bar for my 65 and not sure what direction to go.
           
        • 72bluNblu

          72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          If you think that the factory mount locations on the LCA's don't vary by a 1/4" (or more!) you're kidding yourself. Like ANY sway bar installation, you'll have to check the range of motion and adjust the end link lengths to make sure everything works. My car has no binding issues, it can be done as long as you just don't slap it on and assume it will work. No aftermarket parts work like that, not even yours. I have a brand new set of LCA pins that are useless to me because they didn't fit your Delrin bushings, despite your recommendation that they were the ones I needed. Start mixing and matching aftermarket parts and you have to actually check things and use some common sense, you can't just assume things were meant to be a certain way just because that's the way they came, or that's what the manufacturer recommended. It's easy to start stacking tolerances even on parts that are supposed to work together. Especially on these old cars, the factory tolerances were very loose and the giant factory rubber bushings made up for a lot of that. Make things stiffer and more accurate and you have to make sure all the tolerances are right and nothing binds.

          Would love to see the pictures! As I mentioned above, you may need to alter the length of the end links to make it work within your range of suspension travel. That's always true for every sway bar. I have to do the same thing with pretty much all of my cars because they're lowered and the bump stop heights are altered to recenter the range of travel around the lowered height. The supplied end links are just what the manufacturer thinks works best, but when you start adding other aftermarket parts or changing the ride height adjustments need to be made.
           
          Last edited: Apr 9, 2020
        • drewmac

          drewmac Well-Known Member

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          Just waiting on the lower ball joint. Should be together early next week.
           
        • drewmac

          drewmac Well-Known Member

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          Ok so I got it put together! Looks like it will work too! Pics are of the lower arm to sway bay orientation. Like I thought I just had to raise the arm a bit and it fit. Its not 100 (but high 90's) perfect but I think it will be fine. Let me know what you think or.if you want more pics.

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          • briwill70

            briwill70 Well-Known Member

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          • drewmac

            drewmac Well-Known Member

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            Drive test is still about a week or 2 away. I'll take more pics for sure.
             
          • drewmac

            drewmac Well-Known Member

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            Here are some more pics of the car on the ground. Looks pretty good.

            20200412_152241.jpg

            20200412_152235.jpg

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            20200412_152213.jpg

            20200412_152204.jpg
             
          • drewmac

            drewmac Well-Known Member

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            One more. 20200412_152418.jpg
             
          • black954

            black954 Well-Known Member

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            Looks great to me. What exact sway bar are you running? I’m trying to get the correct one for my car since the 73’ and up bar clearly won’t.
             
          • drewmac

            drewmac Well-Known Member

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            I got the full Hotchkiss TVS kit it came with that. The PN on the website is 22385F. I have QA1 lower arms.
             
          • black954

            black954 Well-Known Member

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            Ok thank you. So to be clear, you’re using your stock K-member with QA1 LCAs?
             
          • drewmac

            drewmac Well-Known Member

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            Yes. K member is 1967, QA1 lower arms, Hotchkis uppers, 73 spindles and disc brakes. My car had a factory front sway bar so the new swaybar mounts bolted right on the K member. I added one hole and bolt over stock to beef it up.
             
          • black954

            black954 Well-Known Member

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            Ok awesome. I have a similar set up. 69’ K-member with factory sway bar, QA1 LCAs, 73’ spindles with big LBJs, disc brakes. I bought a Hellwig sway bar for 73’, but it wont work unless I cut up my K-member which I don’t want to do. Looks like your solution will work for me as well.
             
          • drewmac

            drewmac Well-Known Member

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            Very similar to mine. I'll add some pics of the sway bar mounts tomorrow. I'd get the front and rear bar kit so the balance is right. I am sending my car to a shop down the road to get the rear bar mounts put in. Once that is done I can add a few more pics.
             
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