How to Assemble the Front of a Small Block
- Thread starter krazykuda
- Start date
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hemitheus
19? Plymouth Scampenstein
helluva write up amigo.
If it has the nylon coated gears, I would think that it is the old single row 318 type chain.
I like the Edelbrock true roller double roller chains. They are a step up from the stock 340 chain and are only $62 at Mancini Racing. I've run them over 250,000 miles. I once was rebuilding an engine with 130,000 on it and the chain was in good shape still, but replaced it anyway because I had already bought a new one...
http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/edelbrock4.html
thanks for the write-up.
I got a 273 some took the front off, heads, and intake etc. is there anything I need to know different when I put it back together??? its just a 65 2 bbl 273, going back stock.
I got a 273 some took the front off, heads, and intake etc. is there anything I need to know different when I put it back together??? its just a 65 2 bbl 273, going back stock.
No, all small blocks go together the same way.
I would upgrade the timing chain to a true roller double roller. It's a step above the stock 340 double roller chain and will last a long time. The original chains that they put in the 273 & 318 are single row with plastic coated gears. They stretch easily and I've replaced them as early as 84 k miles, and gotten almost 2 MPG increase. The true roller double rollers can go over 200 k without stretching very badly on a daily driver.
Here's the chain that I like to use.
http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/edelbrock4.html
How do you feel about locktite on the cam bolt?
There's nothing wrong with using loctite on the cam bolt, but you don't need it if you clean your threads with a tap and die and then torque them to spec with a torque wrench. There's a reason that they give torque specs, it's so the parts don't come apart if torqued properly, but loctite is an extra piece of mind. If you want to use loctite, chase the threads for the cam and bolt with a tap and die and torque them properly.
Do not oil the bolts before torquing, it can lead to overtightening...
69_340_GTS
Well-Known Member
Great write-up! A question: will a timing cover from a '69 (or older) 340/318 fit on a '74 or newer 360 engine? Thanks!
Yes, but the timing marks are 90° off between the two. You would have to find your TDC, then put a paint mark on the damper to match the new location. I think that you will then also have to run the cast iron water pump with the lower radiator hose on the opposite side.
You can make it work.
In 70 they changed to the aluminum water pump with the radiator outlet on the opposite side and moved the timing marks also. The radiator outlet may block the timing marks if you don't use the one that "matches" the timing cover for that "era".
If you have power steering, the bracket mounting locations are also different from up to the 69 set, than the newer 70 and later. You may have to change that over also.
mopowers
Well-Known Member
I just tore down the front of my 340 for a cam swap and noticed those two front oil galley plugs under the cam thrust plate were missing. Where can I get these? Does anyone have a part number?
Thanks!!!
Thanks!!!
They are an odd size and sometimes hard to find.
Mancini sells them in a kit that covers the whole block freeze plugs and oil galley plugs. Maybe call them and ask if they are sold seperately.
Year one also has a block hardware kit with them.
http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/blocharpac.html
mopowers
Well-Known Member
Damn! I'd hate to have to buy a $40 kit for 2 small pugs. I did notice the back of the thrust plate is machined flat. Does that not seal those lifter galley ends?
Hopefully I can find something that'll work at the auto parts store.
Hopefully I can find something that'll work at the auto parts store.
69_340_GTS
Well-Known Member
Thanks. That will make it easy to keep my old pre-'69 water pump, p/s, alternator, and radiator when I put in the 360-based stroker I plan on installing. I know about the balancer. Wouldn't ever trust a new one to be marked correctly anyways!
No, In my experience the camshaft thrust plate will not seal the lifter galley.
On the very first engine that my brother and I built when I was 13, the machine shop that did our block work did not put the plugs in behind the camshaft thrust plate.
ops:I installed the 340 in my 72 Challenger, and started it up. It only had about 25 psi oil pressure cold and would drop below 10 on a fresh rebuild. I pulled the engine out of the car 4 times before finally finding it. :violent1:
After the 1st pull, we found that the distributor drive gear did not line up with the hex drive for the oil pump and chewed it up. We repaired that and installed the engine and started it again. Same thing, barely 25 cold and about 10 when warmed up.
ale:We were going around asking others what could be going on. Most of the people said that we trashed our bearings when we started it and ran it with low oil pressure. I didn't buy that. :tool:
I finally talked with a Ken Neve who was the head of Mopar Muscle Club back then and he ran a repair shop. Ken was a great mechanic. He told me to make a priming shaft and spin the oil pump and look for oil gushing out of the engine somewhere. Wherever the oil is gushing out, is where we were loosing pressure. That sounds more reasonable. #-o
The priming shafts were not available back then from Mopar, but I had a welding class in high school. (we built the engine and it sat for a few years before I put it in my car as I was 16 now). So I bought an allen wrench and cut the small end off and welded it to a 3/8 steel bar in class one day. So I pull the engine out for the 4th time now, put it on the stand and spin the pump... Nothing... :violent1:
We did not have our big garage built in back yet, and were renting a 7 car warehouse in an industrial strip "mall". So I'm hanging out in the warehouse, and my brother and his friend come by and he sees the priming shaft and drill in my engine and just HAD TO MESS WITH IT. (You know how annoying older brothers can be - monkey see, monkey play...). So he hits the drill trigger and spins the pump. I was standing about 6 feet in front of the engine and a jet of oil squirted out and almost hit me. I freak out and tell him to do that again (he thought that I was pissed and mad at him for a second). He hits the trigger again and the oil squirted out from behind the thrust plate. I yell, "there's the problem..." So I took the camshaft thrust plate off and the galley plugs were missing. :banghead:
The oil didn't squirt out when I was priming the engine, but when he did which tells me that it may sometimes seal them, and sometimes not. I went to the parts store that did the machine work and the a--hole only gave me the two plugs to install, not even offering me a set of gaskets or any money back for his short comings. I changed parts stores/machine shops after that. :finga:
When I installed the plugs and put the engine back in for the 5th time now. (I got to where I could put it together, installed, and started in 17 hours by myself after doing it so many times. - by the way, my main and rod bearings were still good as I suspected). The oil pressure now went to 65 cold start and 50-55 warm. Never had an oil pressure problem with that engine after that. :cheers:
So with the oil not squirting when I spun the pump, and then doing it when my brother did, that indicates that it can also be that way in the car, on and off with the pressure. Now I check every engine for those. After having to pull that engine 5 times, I will never make that mistake again... :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Yes, I would just keep the original balancer for the 360 only, and re-use the old style timing chain, water pump to work with your radiator and power steering set up that originally came in your car.
I just looked at some of my galley plug kits.
I also bought a few "complete block hardware" kits from Year One. MP part # P5249261AB.
It's a complete "block hardware kit" with all of the freeze plugs, galley plugs, distributor bushing, oil filter plate, gasket and "screw", and dowel pins. I'm sure it costs more than the "more basic" kit in the link from Mancini above, but I would try to see if Mancini would have a better price on it if I were doing a complete rebuild. Here's what the instruction sheet lists:
View attachment Plug kit instr A02 B2.jpg
Of course, they don't list any part numbers or plug size in the list for the oil galley plugs, so I took one out of the kit and measured it for you. Here's what the smaller leading edge measures:
View attachment Cup plug small end 02 b.jpg
Here's what the larger end measures at the edge of the plug (they are slightly tapered):
View attachment Cup plug big end 01 b.jpg
The instruction sheet says that it is for all 64 - 92 LA engines and 92 - 03 magnum engines. I would go to a dealer and have them look it up. If they don't have a listing for the older LA engines, then have them look it up as an 02 or 02 magnum engine. They may still be available through the dealers....
If you can't find one, PM me and I can split a kit and help you out. I'm sure one of my engines I may do a quick refresh and not need to replace them.
They should be somewhere between 9/16" or 19/32" as a ball park figure. It's best to use the numbers shown in the pictures above to make sure that you get the right ones.
Last edited by a moderator:
mopowers
Well-Known Member
Thanks Karl. I'll let you know if I can't find one. I appreciate the help.
mopowers
Well-Known Member
For anyone interested, I found a couple part numbers for these front lifter galley plugs
Dorman: 555-009
Sealed Power: 381-3054
Dorman: 555-009
Sealed Power: 381-3054
Great info. This thread is also posted in the "How to Section" so all information will be available in the future to everyone.
Keep on updating as we get more info. :cheers:
z_daddy
z_daddy
Hello I'm not using the fuel pump going elect as far as the the eccentric if I don't use it do they make a washer I can buy ???
grumpuscreature
Resident Curmudgeon
Great thread, sure will help a lot of folks out. FWIW, back when I could still work, I changed the timing chain on a '90 or '91 Dakota 3.9L V6. The timing cover had the oil dripper cast into it. It served the dual purpose of making a hell of a racket when the timing chain stretched. Might be a way to go if you need a dripper and can't find one.
Divenut
Well-Known Member
Hey Karl/Folks,
Can you tell me which of the water pump/timing cover bolts require sealer to prevent coolant leaks? Marked the old bolts when I pulled them, but like a dummy cleaned them w/o noting which ones had sealer on them :banghead: Ended up getting new fasteners anyway....
Be well and thanks in advance.
Pat
Can you tell me which of the water pump/timing cover bolts require sealer to prevent coolant leaks? Marked the old bolts when I pulled them, but like a dummy cleaned them w/o noting which ones had sealer on them :banghead: Ended up getting new fasteners anyway....
Be well and thanks in advance.
Pat
I believe that it's all four of the long bolts. I know a couple of the go into the water jacket for sure.
I also use the silver powder "stop leak" and it will seal them after everything is together. Don't use Bar's leak, it will clog the heater core - too thick.
z_daddy
z_daddy
K I'm stuck I bought a cloyds true dnt roller it's has 3 keyways I'm using std o now when I bring up num 1 cyl compression stroke and put crank gear on it doesn't line up ? There are two zeros on gear one by teeth and one by the notch which one do I use?
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