Ideas on what's causing my click/tick/rattle noise?

[Professor Fate]

A thought just occurred to me, but you'll have to clarify a couple things for me first.
You've got an '82 hydraulic head with early mechanical valve gear- did the stock '82 head use exhaust valve rotators? (IDK, I'm not well versed in slants...) If so, is there any chance the late springs may have been installed with the early valve gear? Springs used with rotators were a hair shorter than the standard ones- this might be enough to cause a tick in the valvetrain when used with normal retainers...?
Or maybe I'm way out in left field.

 

[Bewy]

Easy check of the valve train.
Warm up engine. Remove valve cover. Put some rag around the engine to collect the oil. Wear gloves.
Start the engine, idling, put your finger on each rocker. If the sound changes you have found the culprit.

 

[halfafish]

Not just any exhaust leak, a leak between the head and the headers. Was the mating surface on the headers flat? did you use some nice thick gaskets?

Yes the header surfaces were good, and I'm using a Remflex gasket. I did tighten up the header-to-exhaust pipe bolts, they weren't loose but I was able to get them to tighten some more.

so do you have solid or hydraulic lifters???

Solid lifters and valve train, transferred into a hydraulic head.

Have you ever gotten a video?

That's on today's agenda. I will have to talk to one of the GF's kids to see how to post it on youtube. I'm pretty sure they have done it.

Is the tapping/ticking at engine speed, half engine speed, double engine speed..... You may ask how do you tell? At idle I've used a timing light on a spark plug. That is half engine speed.

Excellent suggestion, I'll get to that today. I will also follow someone else's suggestion to move the timing light from wire to wire to see if the tick lines up with one particular cylinder.

 

[halfafish]

You've got an '82 hydraulic head with early mechanical valve gear- did the stock '82 head use exhaust valve rotators?

I have no idea, and I didn't know there was such a thing as a valve rotator. How would I figure that out?

Easy check of the valve train.
Warm up engine. Remove valve cover. Put some rag around the engine to collect the oil. Wear gloves.
Start the engine, idling, put your finger on each rocker. If the sound changes you have found the culprit.

Excellent suggestion, I'll give this a whirl. I have quite the chore list going, it's a good thing I have the next few days off to work on this. Updates coming after I go get greasy for a while.

 

[j par]

I still think it's a marble in the ashtray....
Bahaha...

 

[Professor Fate]

I have no idea, and I didn't know there was such a thing as a valve rotator. How would I figure that out?

Rotators were used on various engines' exhaust valve instead of a standard retainer, they were designed to "rotate" the exhaust valve during operation to prevent carbon buildup (after the introduction of unleaded fuel). They are a substantially thicker multi-piece design that by necessity used a slightly shorter valve spring. However, I have no idea if or when they were used on slants... just a possibility.

 

[halfafish]

Time for an update, and not a good one I fear. I checked every suggestion above and came up with no results to ID the problem. I sent in the oil for analysis and finally got it back. Not good news for a new engine with 700 miles on it.

Bearing metal is at a SIGNIFICANT LEVEL; Check air induction system (filters, housings, air intake, etc.) for source of abrasives (dirt). Abrasives (Silicon) are at a SIGNIFICANT LEVEL; Cylinder region metals (pistons, rings, liners etc.) are at a MODERATE LEVEL; FUEL DILUTION is at a MINOR LEVEL.

I had two friends under the truck while it was in the air on the lift and both said the noise is inside the pan. Doing the same thing, I agree. With the info above it's time to pull the engine and see what's going on. Since the girlfriend isn't up to the party we were going to tonight, I'll be ringing in the new year prepping the truck to yank its little heart out tomorrow. Many thanks for all the suggestions.

 

[j par]

Time for an update, and not a good one I fear. I checked every suggestion above and came up with no results to ID the problem. I sent in the oil for analysis and finally got it back. Not good news for a new engine with 700 miles on it.

Bearing metal is at a SIGNIFICANT LEVEL; Check air induction system (filters, housings, air intake, etc.) for source of abrasives (dirt). Abrasives (Silicon) are at a SIGNIFICANT LEVEL; Cylinder region metals (pistons, rings, liners etc.) are at a MODERATE LEVEL; FUEL DILUTION is at a MINOR LEVEL.

I had two friends under the truck while it was in the air on the lift and both said the noise is inside the pan. Doing the same thing, I agree. With the info above it's time to pull the engine and see what's going on. Since the girlfriend isn't up to the party we were going to tonight, I'll be ringing in the new year prepping the truck to yank its little heart out tomorrow. Many thanks for all the suggestions.

May I refer you back to Post 40...
Well and 42 that was a knee slapper...

 

[halfafish]

May I refer you back to Post 40...
Well and 42 that was a knee slapper...

Haha. And a big dose of whatever.

I shall soldier.on.

 

[j par]

Haha. And a big dose of whatever.

I shall soldier.on.

The good thing is it ran long enough to get that free cheeseburger LOL.,

 

[halfafish]

The good thing is it ran long enough to get that free cheeseburger LOL.,

True story. I guess I probably slithered by on that bet since it was first truck running, not first truck to stay running because it was assembled properly.

 

[Thee TMC]

Can I hijack this post or start new?
Having same issue with a new to me 65 Plymouth valiant \6

 

[Killer6]

Can I hijack this post or start new?
Having same issue with a new to me 65 Plymouth valiant \6

Best to start Your own thread, welcome to FABO!

 

[Thee TMC]

Best to start Your own thread, welcome to FABO!

Thx

 

[halfafish]

Can I hijack this post or start new?
Having same issue with a new to me 65 Plymouth valiant \6

Feel free to hijack away. It's just more info to help solve the issue.

 

[Thee TMC]

Feel free to hijack away. It's just more info to help solve the issue.

I will post video of mine tonight

 

[Thee TMC]

Feel free to hijack away. It's just more info to help solve the issue.

Bell housing bent
Easy fix

 

[Scooper]

"New" is a problem in this case. New \6 fuel pumps tend to be much poorer quality than we used to be able to get. They no longer have the arm follower spring—which is what kept the pump's lever arm in contact with the camshaft even when the mainspring was compressed. Without the follower spring, when the mainspring's compressed, the lever arm is free to flop up and down, and in that condition it can easily make a click/tick/rattle when the cam lobe smacks it.

If you go too far the other direction, old fuel pumps pose risks as well—rubber doesn't react well to age, and some of it doesn't react well to alcohol in the fuel—but I had consistently fine results buying and using NOS AC № 6972 fuel pumps. Cheap and easy on eBay, such as this and this.

OP: to check if this is what's causing your noise, unbolt the fuel pump and pull it away from the block. Start the engine; if it was running recently, the fuel in the carb bowl should be enough to run it long enough for you to hear if the noise has gone.

He can also run it off of some bill-cosby-in-a-can if his bowl runs dry.

Someone mentioned ignition pinging. What about the distributor alltogether? I've had a 'noisy' distributor that made an odd ticking sound before. God knows how it could, or why. Swapped in another and it was gone.

 

[slantsixdan]

I've had a 'noisy' distributor that made an odd ticking sound before. God knows how it could, or why.

Answer is probably as discussed in this long (but worthwhile) thread and this story.

 

[halfafish]

It's time for an update. I tried every suggestion for tracking down the noise and checking EVERYTHING under the hood and under the truck that could have been loose/rattling/vibrating. I came up empty handed. I put the truck in the air and held another session with two different friends that have good hearing. They both said the noise was coming from the oil pan, towards the rear. I did a listening session and I agreed. So I started the painful process of pulling the engine.

Much to my surprise, this beeyotch came out pretty easy using a standard cherry picker. I used a forklift last time and wasn't sure a picker would have enough reach but with the trans removed first it came out easy-peasy. Yay for me. The good news is after pulling the pan I checked the torque on the rods and mains, they were good. So at least the assembly was good and I didn't leave any bolts loose. However, the bad news is the #4 rod bearing was pretty well thrashed. No wonder this was making a lot of noise.

Oh, and lotsa flakes and crap in the bottom of the pan.

A trip to the machine shop shows I got lucky and shut this down at the right time. I only had to polish the crank and do the teeniest clean up work on two rods. Otherwise no serious damage done. Consensus at the MS was too much timing for detonation. Lots of things to get right the second time around, to be revisited in Mission Creep on a D-150. Sadly, sometimes I learn by thinking I know what I'm doing, only to find out the hard way, I don't.

 

[bcschief]

Ok you found the failure now what is the cause of the failure?

 

[halfafish]

Ok you found the failure now what is the cause of the failure?

It appears I had way too much timing in it, and it was detonating. Some of that likely had to do with me not understanding how to properly set timing, plus I think my old dial back timing light is way off. I bought a new light to check that out and set the new build. Both machinists at my shop agree from plug inspection and checking my distributor and vacuum advance. Most of the rod bearings had lost their crush but the mains are still OK.

 

[Charrlie_S]

I would take a close look at the rings/ring lands. If it was detonating that bad, you might have a problem there. I have lost a couple of piston/rings, from detonation, but the rods bearing were still fine.

 

[Charrlie_S]

One other thing I would check is the bearing clearance. Is the crank std size, or has it been turned? If the crank has been turned (some time in the past, such as .010 under) and standard size bearings were used, it would lead to excessive clearance. Have the crank micked, and look at the back of the bearings. They should be marked as to what size they are. It is rare but I have seen the incorrect size bearings in a box. I always double check with plastic gauge.
(the ideal way is to install the bearing in the rods, and measure with a dial bore gauge, or inside mic, and compare to the crank journal measurement, to determine the oil clearance)

 

[halfafish]

I would take a close look at the rings/ring lands. If it was detonating that bad, you might have a problem there. I have lost a couple of piston/rings, from detonation, but the rods bearing were still fine.

Agreed, this is on today's agenda when I get done with work.

One other thing I would check is the bearing clearance. Is the crank std size, or has it been turned? If the crank has been turned (some time in the past, such as .010 under) and standard size bearings were used, it would lead to excessive clearance. Have the crank micked, and look at the back of the bearings. They should be marked as to what size they are. It is rare but I have seen the incorrect size bearings in a box. I always double check with plastic gauge.
(the ideal way is to install the bearing in the rods, and measure with a dial bore gauge, or inside mic, and compare to the crank journal measurement, to determine the oil clearance)

I did check the clearance when I originally assembled the motor. It was bored .030 over and cleaned up at that time. All the rod and main bearings were in spec using plastic gauge.

This week I had the crank and rods checked after I found the bad rod bearing, they are all OK and ready to go back in the block. I have a set of new rod bearings, but I think I'm going to install new main bearings and rings to be on the safe side. The mains look good and I will have a report card on the rings later today.