The valve cover was indeed leaking, but not a huge amount. When I wiring for the tach I accidentally trapped one wire under the valve cover and gasket at the front and rear passenger corners. It was dripping, but not a ton.
Ideas on what's causing my click/tick/rattle noise?
- Thread starter halfafish
- Start date
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The valve cover was indeed leaking, but not a huge amount. When I wiring for the tach I accidentally trapped one wire under the valve cover and gasket at the front and rear passenger corners. It was dripping, but not a ton.
Agreed, something happened but danged if I can figure it out. Maybe it was just a spell of bad luck. My plan is to put this back together as carefully as possible and see what happens. I did check all the oil passages when I gave the block a bath, and all are good. I have slobbered plenty of assembly lube as I go. I plan to leave the plugs out of it when I start the break-in, and spin the engine to get the oil pump working and the galleys filled. I will fill the pump with vaseline to prime it.
I'm putting in new rings to make sure there's no issue with the oil/rich mixture/carbon business and I may swap out the umbrella valve seals for a set of the positive ones. I shall report on things moving forward.
When you mention using a PC seal, are you speaking of the positive style valve stem seal?
my68barracuda
Well-Known Member
And I see you posted that the rear cam journal did not have a full groove, thanks for the reply.
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my68barracuda
Well-Known Member
Rusty, if one is going to spin the complete motor, crank and all to prime it. Why not just wait until the engine is in chassis, remove the sparkplugs and use the starter to spin it.
Then, promptly put the plugs back in and start the motor for real before everything drains back down.
I didn't say complete motor. JUST the camshaft.
my68barracuda
Well-Known Member
Along with everything you mentioned, I would put a mechanical oil pressure gauge on that motor.
That engine has every indication of too much oil up top and too little to the rods. It will show as low oil pressure with the engine rpm’s up.
yeah that's kinda why I posted what you quoted, so other people can see that, by what I did to that car/ by the combo of parts I used.
(which was necessary simply because of "what I had available" at the time.)
Drainback issue somehow? (or lack thereof) Had that on another of my parents' cars (was a GM product with a sludged up Olds 350, Dad had bought a previously poorly maintained car) Not saying your fresh motor would be sludged, maybe some casting flash blocking the drainback path? or something goofy with the head gasket? Just a thought. On that Olds the drainback holes were completely plugged, I never got such a flood of oil over the head just by pulling the valve cover out of any other vehicle that I have had to work, on as I did on that one.
Though I understand where you are heading with what you are saying, about being flooded with oil. Hi volume oil pump, being used? that would aggravate the issue too.
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That is correct.
"& painted them on the way out." I cannot possibly tell You how many plugs I've pulled that got the threads painted w/oil clinging to the head as I removed them, probably thousands, & now the modern engines that fill the plug tube/well up with oil.
The soot in that unit looks like a combination of excess fuel & oil.
I'm leaning towards fuel contamination of the oil, that will cause this condition, & this failure.
No.
I assume you are talking about the kind with a hollow tube that feeds the gauge inside the cab? If so is that better than an electric one? I have a set of Auto-Meter gauges in my cart at Amazon but they are all electrically powered.
I don't think so, it's the one that was on the truck. I took it apart and spec'ed it before reassembling - it was in good shape and did not need any rebuilding. I'll see if it's the HD version but I doubt it.
I don't think there is an oil passage problem anywhere. I ran wires through them all then flushed them during engine bath time to make sure all were flowing.
One more thing @halfafish, well, 2 more. The Slanty mechanical pump is upside-down, & can leak fuel into the crankcase w/o coming out of the weep-hole, I know this for a FACT. The 2nd point, be very attentive & sure of the ring instructions, position-type-orientation-face up. Some rings appear similar to the old ones, but are installed "counter-intuitively", be certain. It seems a simple task,but I've seen um in wrong, & by pros. Be sure to avoid causing heavy scratches or gouging the ring lands.
my68barracuda
Well-Known Member
Some electronic oil pressure gauges are dampened so they do not respond immediately. That is why I like mechanical oil pressure gauges. What the mechanical gauge shows is what is happening.
Most mechanical gauges will come with a nylon pressure tube. Those will last a long time, but if you want something more robust both copper and steel tubes are available. With hard pressure tubes make a loop at the end that connects to the engine to allow for movement and vibration.
j par
Well-hung Member
Every time I read or see the multiple threads on this engine I'm almost left well actually I'm completely speechless...
Lemmie go mark THAT on the wall.
j par
Well-hung Member
When one looks at how this engine build started and if it will ever end it's just mind-boggling....
I got new rings, they arrived yesterday. I'm going to double check what I installed originally to see if that was the problem.
There was a question of the oil pump being high volume or not. I got two sets of numbers off the pump but I haven't found out what they indicate yet. On the body of the pump I can't read the first digit, but it's _121678. The pump cover clearly has 24563966. More research needed here.
I got the chambers cleaned up. It was very greasy feeling junk in there. I'm thinking if it was just a rich condition the crud would have been baked on but dry. This stuff was seriously greasy and sticky. I had to spray it with rubbing alcohol and use a fiber cup brush in my drill to get it all off, and that took a while. Here's the cleaned up version...
@Killer6 I talked to the guys at the parts store about the valve stem seals. And BTW this was a real store with real car guys and about 20 feet of printed manuals behind the counter. They were not able to locate any positive seals for a slant. Lots of viton umbrella seals, but that was all. Do you know a source for the better seals?
Sadly, work is going to rear its ugly head for the next ten days or so, progress will probably be spotty till I get clear of the end of the tunnel.
j par
Well-hung Member
Hopefully starting my truck on Monday...I got new rings, they arrived yesterday. I'm going to double check what I installed originally to see if that was the problem.
There was a question of the oil pump being high volume or not. I got two sets of numbers off the pump but I haven't found out what they indicate yet. On the body of the pump I can't read the first digit, but it's _121678. The pump cover clearly has 24563966. More research needed here.
I got the chambers cleaned up. It was very greasy feeling junk in there. I'm thinking if it was just a rich condition the crud would have been baked on but dry. This stuff was seriously greasy and sticky. I had to spray it with rubbing alcohol and use a fiber cup brush in my drill to get it all off, and that took a while. Here's the cleaned up version...
View attachment 1715880828
@Killer6 I talked to the guys at the parts store about the valve stem seals. And BTW this was a real store with real car guys and about 20 feet of printed manuals behind the counter. They were not able to locate any positive seals for a slant. Lots of viton umbrella seals, but that was all. Do you know a source for the better seals?
Sadly, work is going to rear its ugly head for the next ten days or so, progress will probably be spotty till I get clear of the end of the tunnel.
my68barracuda
Well-Known Member
Slant oil pump volume is determined by the thickness of the rotor.I got new rings, they arrived yesterday. I'm going to double check what I installed originally to see if that was the problem.
There was a question of the oil pump being high volume or not. I got two sets of numbers off the pump but I haven't found out what they indicate yet. On the body of the pump I can't read the first digit, but it's _121678. The pump cover clearly has 24563966. More research needed here.
I got the chambers cleaned up. It was very greasy feeling junk in there. I'm thinking if it was just a rich condition the crud would have been baked on but dry. This stuff was seriously greasy and sticky. I had to spray it with rubbing alcohol and use a fiber cup brush in my drill to get it all off, and that took a while. Here's the cleaned up version...
View attachment 1715880828
@Killer6 I talked to the guys at the parts store about the valve stem seals. And BTW this was a real store with real car guys and about 20 feet of printed manuals behind the counter. They were not able to locate any positive seals for a slant. Lots of viton umbrella seals, but that was all. Do you know a source for the better seals?
Sadly, work is going to rear its ugly head for the next ten days or so, progress will probably be spotty till I get clear of the end of the tunnel.
There are three thicknesses of the rotor.
Thinnest the oe mechanical lifters is approximately 5/8 inch.
Medium the hydraulic lifters and most replacement pump rotors are approximately 7/8 inch.
Thickest high volume pump are 1 inch thick.
Actual thickness listed in a much more accurate thousands is listed on the internet. The fractions listed above are useful for determining what you have but not for understanding how much wear is present.
Is the pump body aluminum? The oe pump on the slant in the 83 D150 is aluminum. I believe the aluminum pump body is common on hydraulic slants. I have ran the hydraulic aluminum body pump on mechanical lifter slants with the oil passage restricted without issue
Did you service - clean the oil by pass valve in the oil pump as part of the re build. The by pass valve should move freely and the FSM has a spec on spring length.
Oil pump rebuild kits with new inner and outer rotors and gaskets show up from time to time on e bay. Pay attention to get the correct rotor thickness.
To use positive valve seals on a slant the OD of the valve guide needs to be reduced. That is machine shop work.
Federal Mogul does have a press on rubber valve guide seal that fits over the stock OD of the slant valve guide. I have seen those in the Federal Mogul full engine rebuild gasket sets.
While you have the cylinder head off take a flashlight and look into the manifold side of the port to get a visual on the back side of the valves. There may be a lot of coking on the back side on the valves. It will be really bad on the back of the intake valves if the intake valve seals are letting oil get sucked in.
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Dave999
Well-Known Member
can't help with the bearings
but what manufatcuere of rings did you use?
sealed power provide an instruction sheet that is universal to every ring they have ever produced in the last 40 years. as far as i can tell. Lots of pictures, mentions of profiles to inner and outer edges, dykes rings etc some refernce to dots that some rings have and some rings don't . If you buy a set of bog standard or even special material or coated rings for say.... in my case magnum 318 pistons (repurposed for my 265CUI 6). Then the ring installation is covered by the last few sentences on the back of the page which says something along the lines of if it has "inner profile thus and outer profile thus then this way is UP but if not its down but if the rings have dots the dot goes up, but not all rings have dots so use profile to detrmine orientaion. clear as mud. None of the pictures or anything in the extenive text you read in the previos 2 sides of folded A5 sized copy is relveant. 2 sets of rings, two rebuilds, still sooty black and horrible oily looking plugs and occasional smoke after 500 miles... got myself some Mahle branded rings, instructions with them are NICE. said these rings have dots on to show top. My issue. i was using the discussion about profile in the first part of the Sealed Power instructions for my second ring and wondering why it had no dot, so based it all on profile which happend to be a discussion about inner rather than outer.... no discussion of special inner profiles up to this point...Hence second ring upside down twice. It took the mahle instructions to make me take note, and then i could go back and fully understand that the sealed power instructions section i belived was for my rings wasn't and that clear as mud last sentence is read slowly with hindsight and a ring in yoru hand did tell you what you needed to know. I too, had profesionals look at my motor and ended up doing valve guides new stem seals etc. hard lesson learned, and as i had sucessfully built numerouse 2 strokes and VW bug engines over the years from a teenager to my 40s... i felt particularly foolish. i now have a picture on the wall. this profile on the outer side...This way up, and the instructions well they are read afterwards just in case ....
Dave
but what manufatcuere of rings did you use?
sealed power provide an instruction sheet that is universal to every ring they have ever produced in the last 40 years. as far as i can tell. Lots of pictures, mentions of profiles to inner and outer edges, dykes rings etc some refernce to dots that some rings have and some rings don't . If you buy a set of bog standard or even special material or coated rings for say.... in my case magnum 318 pistons (repurposed for my 265CUI 6). Then the ring installation is covered by the last few sentences on the back of the page which says something along the lines of if it has "inner profile thus and outer profile thus then this way is UP but if not its down but if the rings have dots the dot goes up, but not all rings have dots so use profile to detrmine orientaion. clear as mud. None of the pictures or anything in the extenive text you read in the previos 2 sides of folded A5 sized copy is relveant. 2 sets of rings, two rebuilds, still sooty black and horrible oily looking plugs and occasional smoke after 500 miles... got myself some Mahle branded rings, instructions with them are NICE. said these rings have dots on to show top. My issue. i was using the discussion about profile in the first part of the Sealed Power instructions for my second ring and wondering why it had no dot, so based it all on profile which happend to be a discussion about inner rather than outer.... no discussion of special inner profiles up to this point...Hence second ring upside down twice. It took the mahle instructions to make me take note, and then i could go back and fully understand that the sealed power instructions section i belived was for my rings wasn't and that clear as mud last sentence is read slowly with hindsight and a ring in yoru hand did tell you what you needed to know. I too, had profesionals look at my motor and ended up doing valve guides new stem seals etc. hard lesson learned, and as i had sucessfully built numerouse 2 strokes and VW bug engines over the years from a teenager to my 40s... i felt particularly foolish. i now have a picture on the wall. this profile on the outer side...This way up, and the instructions well they are read afterwards just in case ....
Dave
Chrysler used a PC seal that went over a stock guide OD in at least the "452" head('76) B-RB era, & fit inside a single w/damper spring, they are std. & come in the headset. If the guides have been replaced (not lined), they would be 1/2" if they machined the OE down completely, if not the PC's above should work. There are lots of PC's for the 1/2" OD, & modern design/materials.
Post a picture of the oil pump. I can tell if it's HV or not. All the replacements you get are "higher volume" than the original anyway.
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