Inspection of a 904 torqueflite

-
glhx said:
On the 904......from the front of the drum. It steps up
On the 999.....it steps down. It not being burned has me thinking it’s original but I go back and forth.

If .050 wore that thing down.
It wouldn’t be smooth if the reverse band wore it down. It would be grooved and have hot spots if it was naturally worn down that much.

The converter is going to be rebuilt by a company up the road.
Click to expand...
The 999 drums are beefed up in the rear planetary drive lug area.
The step area has nothing to do with the rear band. It is to leave more meat in the drive lug area where the rear planetary engages.
You are mistaking this step as drum wear, it is not.
 
glhx said:
Direct drum 999

the old frictions show .086 and are not worn at all.
The new ones have not been saturated in transmission fluid and spec out at .084.
I’m sure this is the right set from raybestos......that’s .010 difference between all 5 of them.

How much does this matter if at all

Do they swell up to .086???

The clearance with the new clutch packs shows .082
If they do swell up that’s .072 and shows too tight as the spec is .075 on the low end.

I am trying to figure out which flat washer to put in there
Click to expand...
That clearance will be fine. 12-15 thou per clutch. It does not hVe to be exact, it has to be in range. Your rear clutch clearance is more important as the range is tighter.
 
glhx said:
I’m replacing both
Click to expand...
If you are planning to put in a new converter, then I would stop worrying about the black fluid. Make sure what you can see and visually inspect are good and in tolerance. It would be difficult for you at home to test the used converter because you cannot really see inside it. So change it and move on and stop worrying about what happened before and concentrate on getting it right this time.
IMHO
 
glhx said:
Do the clutches swell up to spec when saturated. If not....I’ll send them back to raybestos and see if they can get me some new ones

By the way rusty.....new Hampton just this week started supplying the local autozne. It’s cheaper to buy one from autozone than to have my redone by them

They want $150
Click to expand...

That ain't bad. I can vouch for it too if it's from them. They make a good product.
 
glhx said:
One thing I need to do is check the clutch pack clearances. The wave snap rings are being replaced with flat snap rings.

Someone on here said not to go crazy tight on the clutch pack clearances.

What is crazy tight? Does that mean stay in the middle of the spec?
I am replacing the seals....all of them.

I just bought the new ring seals ten minutes ago.

As far as the converter goes.....what do you think I should do?

Test it.....replace it for the heck of it?

I know you d t talk to everyone like this. Even people that don’t know what the hell they are doing. I just saw a post where you guided someone through testing the direct clutch clearance and talked about how it gets a little side ways and throws the spec off.

That guy did way less of what was asked.

Hell.....what more can I do?

At this point I’m not refreshing it. I’m basically replacing about everything that’ could be worn out.


I guess I could just buy a new converter just in case.
Click to expand...
Exactly which waved snap rings are you replacing with flat.
If you change the front clutch pack to a flat, the clutch engagement will be firmer, sometime too firm. Sometimes the waved snap rings break. I would put in a brand new waved for reliability.
 
The forward pack is within clearance with the new frictions

The direct is as well so I’ll run them. I was going to make both of them flat style but I can see where it would just slam the frictions into the housing where as a wave style would absorb some of that.

The 999 stock
Direct......wave
Forward.....flat

904 has
Direct......flat.......061
Forward ......wave is .052

I don’t know which snap rings the 999 originally they came with. Should I put wave back in both?
One problem is the wave is thinner When compressed and will throw the clutch packs out another .010.

For regular driving, which one would be best in which clutch pack with factoring in the already aggressive tf2 for shifting? I haven’t bought them yet.
 
Last edited:
Raybestos tech line said the forward clutch frictions are out of spec by .001
Since these are exactly .057 and not .058 they are out of their spec.
As long as the clearance is fine he said the packs should be fine. Clearance is good so I’ll run them

And the direct clutches are within their spec.
Even though they are .084, raybestos has a +/- of .003 for bounce back and expand. When they get saturated and used the first time. They compress under heat. When they come back after being compressed they swell up some.
 
On the new converter. What they call a low stall means 1700 and a high stall is 1800. I’m guessing that a range like 1800-2200 but that’s an assumption.

Someone said when running the tf2.....the rear servo retainer weakens and falls out. Have any of you had that happen?
 
Still messing with this. Had to put it on hold for a while.

I’ve decided also since I don’t really know how drilling the holes is really supposed to feel like. I’m drilling them as large as the instructions say.
48524350876_436c728a6d_z.jpg
-

How do the different diameters affect shifting. I don’t want neck snapping shifts or soft shifts. Maybe something in between.
I guess I can always put in a different transfer plate if I hate it. Figured I’d just ask first

48462155616_06f933b2ca_z.jpg


48462315082_14f0bea281_z.jpg
 
Last edited:
If it were me, I would not drill as large as they say is the max. Go for middle to start. Play it safe.
Tom
 
Aren't you drilling the valve body and leaving out the checkball for B? And go big on the rest. The accumulators make a big difference.
 
I was thinking about going to the motor home setting and leaving the check ball in. If it doesn’t shift hard enough I can always take the ball out and drill larger holes.
 
What would you suggest for a weekend street car?
I’ve never run a shift kit before so I have no idea what any of these setting will do.

I’m looking for longer lasting and mild performance.

The guy at Transgo said to run the motor home setting. Then if I wanted it more firm I could slowly turn up the line pressure. I’ll drill and thread a port in the transmission case to gain full time access to the line pressure adjuster.

Maybe I should have gotten the tf1 kit instead of the tf2. I bet it’s more of what I’m looking for.
 
Last edited:
I finally got around to getting the line pressure hole drilled. The measuring was good and lined up perfectly with the valve body mocked up.

I drilled a 1/8 hole in the back of the case to lube the sprag clutch better.

And then drilled a decent sized hole for a 1/8th pipe thread plug or a vent to be put there and possibly block the vent in the pump. I know this was unnecessary but while I was at it and had aluminum shavings ll over the place. I figured to just get it all done at once whether I was gonna use it or not.

I do wonder though. Why do people block the pump vent and open up the top of the case or put it toward the back near the governor.
 
Last edited:
glhx said:
I finally got around to getting the line pressure hole drilled. The measuring was good and lined up perfectly with the valve body mocked up.

I drilled a 1/8 hole in the back of the case to lube the sprag clutch better.

And then drilled a decent sized hole for a 1/8th pipe thread plug or a vent to be put there and possibly block the vent in the pump. I know this was unnecessary but while I was at it and had aluminum shavings ll over the place. I figured to just get it all done at once whether I was gonna use it or not.

I do wonder though. Why do people block the pump vent and open up the top of the case or put it toward the back near the governor.

Why not just have both vents and vent out pressure and heat from two locations? Either way.....I don’t think I’ll use it but it’s there.

I haven’t had a chance to drill the valve body yet for the Transgo. Been busy with work.

But as said above.
I decided to go the more tf1 route and go with the largest of those.

The .140

Hopefully it will be more of what I’m looking for. I opted out of the shift command mod.

I should be drilling the separator plate tomorrow and start the process of putting this back together.

It’s been out for way too long. Longer than I expected by far but other stuff gets in the way. The book by Tom hand and the other book by Carl munroe are both excellent. I recommend both of them.
Click to expand...
I am surprised that you claim to have drilled the hole in the case for line pressure adjustment with no mention of welding.
I too did that mod but it required adding a piece of aluminum to the case by welding to get the hole in the right location.
The reason some builders block the vent at the front is usually because it is required if using a transbrake. The instructions with some brakes requires a small bleed hole to be drilled in the front drum under the piston. This hole will allow fluid to spray out of the hole at high pressure and it will spray fluid right at the vent in the pump. Plugging the vent and moving it to the rear allows the trans to still be vented without having a leak.
 
Duane said:
I am surprised that you claim to have drilled the hole in the case for line pressure adjustment with no mention of welding.
I too did that mod but it required adding a piece of aluminum to the case by welding to get the hole in the right location.
The reason some builders block the vent at the front is usually because it is required if using a transbrake. The instructions with some brakes requires a small bleed hole to be drilled in the front drum under the piston. This hole will allow fluid to spray out of the hole at high pressure and it will spray fluid right at the vent in the pump. Plugging the vent and moving it to the rear allows the trans to still be vented without having a leak.
Click to expand...

Well......after taking a better look at how I drilled it. The hole was accurate to be able to adjust the pressure externally. I was able to get a hex head plug in it and grind around the base to allow room for the hex and a socket and seal it off.

This was the initial set up before I put the hex head plug in there. It goes right to the pressure adjustment.
48660859081_15fa2be238_m.jpg


However....the plug doesn’t sit flush. It sits diagonally and tightens on one side. I don’t like it, so I have to re evaluate it. Would it be fine......probably.

I’m going to take it to a welding shop and have them either close up the hole, or add to it to make it so that a larger 1/2 nf or 3/8 npt ....non hex head plug... will sit inside a fabricated structure that’s built on top of that area.

I thought about drilling a large hole in the side of that area. Big enough to get a shouldered o ring plug in there and have it sit flat. I know it would work. But I don’t know how much I would weaken the case, grinding out the area above the numbers to be able to have the larger diameter shoulder clear it.

Not sure which route to go. I don’t see ever having to adjust the line pressure after I put this back together as I’m not racing really after harder shifts. Might just have them weld it shut and call it a day.

I decided last night to not even go on the high side of the tf1 and go in the middle.....like .120 instead of .140
And .100 or close instead of .110.

Basically going in between those high and low numbers.

I just don’t know enough about what these holes being bigger feel like after it’s in the car and running. I don’t have a problem removing the valve body and going bigger if I don’t like it.
I guess it’s just one of those things you have like or not and adjust it to whatever you want and that takes some messing with.
 
Last edited:
glhx said:
Well......after taking a better look at how I drilled it. The hole was accurate to be able to adjust the pressure externally. I was able to get a hex head plug in it and grind around the base to allow room for the hex and a socket and seal it off.

This was the initial set up before I put the hex head plug in there. It goes right to the pressure adjustment.
View attachment 1715387962

However....the plug doesn’t sit flush. It sits diagonally and tightens on one side. I don’t like it, so I have to re evaluate it. Would it be fine......probably.

I’m going to take it to a welding shop and have them either close up the hole, or add to it to make it so that a non hex head plug will sit inside a fabricated structure that’s built on top of that area.

I thought about drilling a large hole in the side of that area. Big enough to get a shouldered o ring plug in there and have it sit flat. I know it would work. But I don’t know how much I would weaken the case, grinding out the area above the numbers to be able to have the larger diameter shoulder clear it.

Not sure which route to go. I don’t see ever having to adjust the line pressure after I put this back together as I’m not racing really after harder shifts. Might just have them weld it shut and call it a day.

I decided last night to not even go on the high side of the tf1 and go in the middle.....like .120 instead of .140
And .100 or close instead of .110.

Basically going in between those high and low numbers.

I just don’t know enough about what these holes being bigger feel like after it’s in the car and running. I don’t have a problem removing the valve body and going bigger if I don’t like it.
I guess it’s just one of those things you have like or not and adjust it to whatever you want and that takes some messing with.
Click to expand...
Here's a few pics of mine and a couple from a and a trans. Blue trans is mine.

image.png


image.png


image.png
 
Thank you for the pictures. That’s much better than what I did.
I’ll show them at the shop or shops I take it to. I’m guessing a welding shop and a machine shop.

How big is that plug? I’m guessing you built that up. Then drilled a small hole to get to the line pressure. And then a larger hole so the plug would sit in there and have something to seat into?

Let me know if that’s what you did.
 
glhx said:
Thank you for the pictures. That’s much better than what I did.
I’ll show them at the shop or shops I take it to. I’m guessing a welding shop and a machine shop.

How big is that plug? I’m guessing you built that up. Then drilled a small hole to get to the line pressure. And then a larger hole so the plug would sit in there and have something to seat into?

Let me know if that’s what you did.
Click to expand...
The plug is 1/8 pipe. The bung I guess was about 3/4 inch diameter slug of aluminum bar stock. I never went to a machine shop, just a welding shop with a tig welder. I just hand fitted the slug to the case with files and a dremel etc. after welding I draw filed the welds to blend with the pan rail bottom and sides. The red rill you new access hole and tap with 1/8-27 pipe. Just time and work mostly. You probably don,t need this but just take your time and be careful. You don,t want to trash the case. Aluminum is soft and easy to work with.
 
You used round stock and the welder just filled in the base and built it out?

Did you drill all the way through 1/8 npt. My biggest problem was the angle on this and the plug just threaded all the way through the hole because it had nothing to seat against.

I was thinking maybe do a 1/4” diameter all the way through to the valve body......and then drill a size or two bigger for the plug....just not going very deep with it. Maybe 3/4” deep or less into the long drilled hole. so the plug would seat. Using a 1/8 pipe thread which has an outside diameter of closer to 1/2” (.40). It looks like that’s what you did and a&a did as well.

Your plug is sitting flush with the surface.

What would it take to trash the case to the point it’s ruined in this particular area?

I looked at 3/4 x 1” bar stock 6061 aluminum on eBay to start with, but I’m not around the transmission right now. Just looking at the pictures. The welder might even have this bar stock laying around and have an idea of what they want to do.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top