Jeep 4.0 in 69 Barracuda

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Crap, I just thought of something. I dont believe I can push the engine back. I dont know if I have the space to notch the oil pan any further closer to the pickup tube. And if I can get closer to the tube, I will need to make sure I make clearence on the front for the pickup portion.

This puts me right back to the HDK rack and pinion upgrade.
 
Sorry for the misinfo on the bellhousings. 72 and up AMC 6 and 8's share the same bolt pattern. and that is when Torqueflites started being used. wishful thinking they were the same.
 
Well everyone, I think 75Slant6 may have the solution. I am waiting to hear from HemiDenny tomorrow. It looks like I would have almost 9.5 inches with my engine current location to the nuts which hold the lower control arm pivot nuts to the chassis. That would allow the OEM starter to work. The location of the Steering Rack should allow me to go back to the 4.0L oil pan, oil pump, and oil pickup tube.

75Slant6, When looking at the firewall, on the passenger side, the proud portion below the heater fan at about 4:30. i measured there to the bell housing mating surface of the block which would be the same surface that starter would mate with. The measurement was 1.75 inches. Add that to the OEM starter length of 8 inches and round up, we get 10 inches. Would you mind measuring 10 inches and seeing what I would hit of the HDK suspension? Also consider that I can get a 6 inch starter as well.

Heres to a good conversation with HemiDenny.

The big question is what can I sell for how much to recoup some of my loss. All are new components.

All 1973 to 76
  • Power Steering Box
  • Steering linkage including V8 Drag Link
  • Steering knuckles and single piston brake caliper brackets
  • Front Rotors
Sadly, I have had engine mount brackets welded to the 1969 V8 K-Member motor mount pads. Welded location can be easily cleaned for stock use.

There is probably $1500 in new parts and the drag link there.
 
abdywgn said:
YIKES!
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yeah, keep in mind the $5kish on the first suspension I bought with the rack in front of the knuckles. Then take into consideration the $4500 for the fab work to get the engine in the car with this current suspension from HDK. Add in the cost of those custom lower control arms I bought trying to make the first kit work, and the OEM style parts listed above for the current solution. It adds up to a huge loss.

If after speaking with HemiDenny hopefully I find I can keep my control arms, Shock Hoops, and coil overs. If thats the case and good measurements from 75Slant6 prove I am in a possible solution, then the new cost should put this behind me and allow me to install a starter. And I bought a new welder, so hopefully I can avoid another $4500 fab bill to install motor.
 
JohnFM3 said:
Well everyone, I think 75Slant6 may have the solution. I am waiting to hear from HemiDenny tomorrow. It looks like I would have almost 9.5 inches with my engine current location to the nuts which hold the lower control arm pivot nuts to the chassis. That would allow the OEM starter to work. The location of the Steering Rack should allow me to go back to the 4.0L oil pan, oil pump, and oil pickup tube.

75Slant6, When looking at the firewall, on the passenger side, the proud portion below the heater fan at about 4:30. i measured there to the bell housing mating surface of the block which would be the same surface that starter would mate with. The measurement was 1.75 inches. Add that to the OEM starter length of 8 inches and round up, we get 10 inches. Would you mind measuring 10 inches and seeing what I would hit of the HDK suspension? Also consider that I can get a 6 inch starter as well.

Heres to a good conversation with HemiDenny.

The big question is what can I sell for how much to recoup some of my loss. All are new components.

All 1973 to 76
  • Power Steering Box
  • Steering linkage including V8 Drag Link
  • Steering knuckles and single piston brake caliper brackets
  • Front Rotors
Sadly, I have had engine mount brackets welded to the 1969 V8 K-Member motor mount pads. Welded location can be easily cleaned for stock use.

There is probably $1500 in new parts and the drag link there.
Click to expand...
Well, I’m not sure how much help I’ll be tonight, due to have a small block with headers in a car that’s slammed 2”+, it’s real difficult to get any kind of decent measurements. That said, I’ve got about 1.25” from that bump in the firewall to my bellhousing mating flange. Then I’ve got about 5” from the bellhousing to the rear of the rear support. That said, my rear support doesn’t go straight across like the one in the picture I posted above, mine has a curve/offset that pushes it back towards the bellhousing an inch or more, so the straight one would buy you a little more room. Idk if any of this makes sense, so tomorrow, I’ll try to jack the car up and get some more accurate measurements and pictures for you.
 
75slant6 said:
That said, I’ve got about 1.25” from that bump in the firewall to my bellhousing mating flange. Then I’ve got about 5” from the bellhousing to the rear of the rear support.
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Thank you. That does not sound promising. I too will take some pictures tomorrow.

Night everyone and thank you.
 
75Slant6,
I am interested in the measurement from the firewall to the a point on the K-Member to see if there is a difference which could change my fitment. I am thinking of trying to get measurements from firewall to the passenger back k-member bolt and the firewall to the V8 motor mount pad slot hole.

I am sorry, when I first asked I thought the Red car in the picture was yours making for easy measurements.
 
So the rough measurement (done by myself) shows the back end of the Idler arm being approximately 10.5 inches behind the center point of the Passenger Rear K-Member bolt.

I need any blocking item moved forward 3 inch for the OEM starter to fit. I do believe the Passenger Side lower control arm pivot would just miss the side of the OEM starter. And maybe even the end as well. I do have a option for a gear reduction starter saving me 1.5 inches at the very least. I may have found one that is 2 inches shorter than stock. And its sits high.
 
JohnFM3 said:
So the rough measurement (done by myself) shows the back end of the Idler arm being approximately 10.5 inches behind the center point of the Passenger Rear K-Member bolt.

I need any blocking item moved forward 3 inch for the OEM starter to fit. I do believe the Passenger Side lower control arm pivot would just miss the side of the OEM starter. And maybe even the end as well. I do have an option for a gear reduction starter saving me 1.5 inches at the very least. I may have found one that is 2 inches shorter than stock. And its sits high.
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Ok, so on my setup, I’ve got about 11” from the center of the rear k-member bolt to to the back side of the rear support bar. The support bar I have is curved toward the rear about 2”, so if you’d do a straight across support (which I could actually do on my car as well) you’d have about 9” from the rear k-member bolt to the rear of the support bar.

Here’s a picture showing how my rear support curves.

IMG_1780.jpeg
 
75slant6 said:
Ok, so on my setup, I’ve got about 11” from the center of the rear k-member bolt to to the back side of the rear support bar. The support bar I have is curved toward the rear about 2”, so if you’d do a straight across support (which I could actually do on my car as well) you’d have about 9” from the rear k-member bolt to the rear of the support bar.
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I wander if my K-Member sits forward more than yours from the firewall? Which would explain the measurement from firewall being different.

I am currently speaking with Denny about the full kit. In going over my parts list this morning, I have about $5k in parts. I wander if I could sell a Complete 1973 thru 76 package of all NEW HDK items with exception of the complete Knuckle setup (which have been restored), a V8 center link, and a rebuilt power steering box. And get somewhere close to the needed $5k. Only thing I dont have is single pistoin Calipers. But I do have new Premium Napa big bolt pattern Rotors.

Parts as shown in prior pictures back several pages.
 
JohnFM3 said:
I wander if my K-Member sits forward more than yours from the firewall? Which would explain the measurement from firewall being different.

I am currently speaking with Denny about the full kit. In going over my parts list this morning, I have about $5k in parts. I wander if I could sell a Complete 1973 thru 76 package of all NEW HDK items with exception of the complete Knuckle setup (which have been restored), a V8 center link, and a rebuilt power steering box. And get somewhere close to the needed $5k. Only thing I dont have is single pistoin Calipers. But I do have new Premium Napa big bolt pattern Rotors.

Parts as shown in prior pictures back several pages.
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K-member bolt from firewall should be the same. I’d imagine the difference from the firewall to the bellhousing flange is just a variation of engine placement with your swap.
 
For me, I could see that bolt holding the cross support on being in my starter path. The question I would need to sort out is if its far enough forward to fit a OEM (@8in) or a gear reduced (@6in) starter. That bar could be flipped as I would install the OEM oil pan which is a rear sump. But the bolt holding the bar (assuming its required) would be the only thing I could see in my way if its too far back.
 
JohnFM3 said:
For me, I could see that bolt holding the cross support on being in my starter path. The question I would need to sort out is if its far enough forward to fit a OEM (@8in) or a gear reduced (@6in) starter. That bar could be flipped as I would install the OEM oil pan which is a rear sump. But the bolt holding the bar (assuming its required) would be the only thing I could see in my way if its too far back.
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How far is your starter opening from the inside of the frame rail?
 
75slant6 said:
How far is your starter opening from the inside of the frame rail?
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I havent measured, but it has to be like 6 inches or so. Its really close to the block below the line between the 2 large transmission bolts. In the picture below, you can see the plate sitting in the correct orintation as your looking at the back of the engine. Starter is on the lower passenger side.

20230902_135328.jpg
 
JohnFM3 said:
I havent measured, but it has to be like 6 inches or so. Its really close to the block below the line between the 2 large transmission bolts. In the picture below, you can see the plate sitting in the correct orintation as your looking at the back of the engine. Starter is on the lower passenger side.

View attachment 1716137139
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Ok. You should be fine then, the inner edge of the bolt that hold the cross support is only 3.5” from the frame rail.
 
75slant6 said:
Ok. You should be fine then, the inner edge of the bolt that hold the cross support is only 3.5” from the frame rail.
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So I found that my engine sits 1.75 inches above the factory K-Member along the crankshaft line. Now I need to determine if I will need to raise the engine to clear the steering rack.
 
JohnFM3 said:
So I found that my engine sits 1.75 inches above the factory K-Member along the crankshaft line. Now I need to determine if I will need to raise the engine to clear the steering rack.
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Probably can’t help ya much there since I’ve got the HDK Slammer which raises the engine 3/4 or 1 inch to gain more ground clearance to slam the car lower.
 
I have asked Denny if he can get me the delta measurement of the top of the k-member mounting pads and the top of the steering rack. I can then compare my oil pan to my mounting pads and then I can determine if my motor will clear the rack.
 
Well, I have thrown my parts up on the for sale threads. Hoping for $5k, lets see what happens. Worst case, I keep the parts and delay the build on my car. Saving the parts for another future A-Body build.
 
Well, I have spoken to Mean Green Alt and Starter today. They build custom starters, and think they may be able to offer something less than 5 inches from the mounting surface. I am hoping for a miracle which would save my current build as it is. Will report what comes of it.
 
Well, after several attempts, Mean Green Alt and Starter is not returning my calls or my emails. I guess they dont want my business. Reaching out to other starter builders. As well still considering QA1 or full HDK mustang 2 setup. I can not seem to be able to get the measurements I need to make a decision, which means I am making a very expensive purchase blind in hopes it MAY solve my problems.

75Slant6, is there any chance you will be putting your car up in the air for some reason which you could take some measurements for me at the same time?
 
JohnFM3 said:
Well, after several attempts, Mean Green Alt and Starter is not returning my calls or my emails. I guess they dont want my business. Reaching out to other starter builders. As well still considering QA1 or full HDK mustang 2 setup. I can not seem to be able to get the measurements I need to make a decision, which means I am making a very expensive purchase blind in hopes it MAY solve my problems.

75Slant6, is there any chance you will be putting your car up in the air for some reason which you could take some measurements for me at the same time?
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Yeah I can get it up on jackstands after MoParty. Probably sometime in the first of the week
 
75slant6 said:
Yeah I can get it up on jackstands after MoParty. Probably sometime in the first of the week
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Dude, I owe you.

I remember you talking about having the slammer kit. Is the K-Member configuration different, or just the addition of the lowering knuckles?

The center of the joint of the idler arm measures 5in off the inside edge of the passenger sub chassis. And my starter is no more than 3 in in diam.

If i am not mistaken, the HDK configuration has the steering rack behind the center line of the knuckle spindles. I also need to know measured from the K Member mounting pads, how far below is the steering rack. I can use that measurement to guage if my engine will hit the rack at its current setup.

I am going to assume the lower control arm bolts sit under the chassis rails. So if we can determine that the area needed for the starter is clear, then I am golden. The cross support bar may need to be re worked if its required. Thats something I can work with hdk on.

I am also looking at QA1, much rather go thru HDK. But at this point, its what ever solution gets my project moving forward with out just throwing a stroked slant 6 in.
 
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