Jehovah's Witnesses

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Mopar-Man said:
I just don't know how anyone can deny Jesus is the Son of God. But to this day, even his own people do. The fact that he is without sin should have been enough for anyone.
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Good point there.

And there is PLENTY of scriptural support in regards to this. Seems like a there are ones who prefer the King James Version.., here's a quote from that translation:

14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
 
I used to just say thanks but no thanks and then shut the door.............
My wife on the other hand loves to let them start their pitch and then she acts overly excited and says something like "oh, you want to talk about religion?......you must come to my church this Sunday and meet pastor Andy" and then proceeds to act like a crazy lady going on and on about her church etc etc.............they always look at each other like WTF, and politely excuse themselves.
 
I don't bash anyone's religion, BUT I DO object to people coming on MY property and trying to pitch me their religion. Be nice? I will treat them however I damn well want to. When they cross the right of way onto MY property, they waived their rights to nice.
 
bighammer said:
Jehovahs Witnesses do not practice tithing, for sound scriptural reasons. Here is an explanation taken from our official website:

No, Jehovah’s Witnesses do not practice tithing; our work is financed by anonymous voluntary donations. What is a tithe, and why don’t Jehovah’s Witnesses practice tithing?

The commandment to tithe, or contribute a tenth of one’s belongings, was part of the Law given to the ancient nation of Israel. However, the Bible makes it clear that this Law—including the “commandment to collect tithes”—does not apply to Christians.—Hebrews 7:5, 18; Colossians 2:13, 14.

Rather than giving required tithes and offerings, Jehovah’s Witnesses imitate the early Christians and support their ministry in two ways: by performing their personal ministerial work without pay and by making voluntary donations.

We thus follow the Bible’s direction to Christians: “Let each one do just as he has resolved in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.”—2 Corinthians 9:7.


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@yellow rose And as for your comment that a "pastor shouldn't have to beat you to death" for your tithe, I'm not sure who that was directed to, but most definitely not towards Jehovahs Witnesses. (again, a quote from our official website):

Each year, we print and distribute hundreds of millions of Bibles and pieces of Bible literature. We build and operate branch offices and printeries around the world. Tens of thousands of congregations meet in modest yet attractive places of worship called Kingdom Halls. Who pays for all of this?

Our work is supported entirely by voluntary donations. (2 Corinthians 9:7) In 1879, the second issue of this magazine stated: “‘Zion’s Watch Tower’ [as this magazine was then called] has, we believe JEHOVAH for its backer, and while this is the case it will never beg nor petition men for support.” We have not wavered from that policy.

Donations are sent directly to one of our branch offices or placed in a contribution box that is located in each Kingdom Hall. But we never tithe, take up collections, or charge a fee for our services or publications. We are not paid to preach, to teach in the congregation, or to help build places of worship. After all, Jesus said: “You received free, give free.” (Matthew 10:8) All ministers at our branch offices and at our world headquarters, including those making up the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses, are unsalaried members of a religious order.

“As is the case with all the activities of Jehovah’s Witnesses, religious funding is handled on a voluntary basis, each one personally determining the amount and frequency of his religious ‘donations.’”—European Court of Human Rights, 2011

Donated funds are also used for disaster relief. The early Christians were pleased to share in relief measures for victims of adversity. (Romans 15:26) We likewise assist the afflicted by rebuilding their homes and places of worship and by providing food, clothing, and medical treatment.

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I think most people recognize that most modern religion is guilty of greed, love of money, and being involved political affairs. Also, most people are aware that most wars were either started by religion, or at least being involved with religion. Of course, it's ALL inappropriate and disgusting behavior. Those things can all be attributed to the fact that Satan is the ruler of the world. (Is that a new thought for you?) Neither the Creator, the God of the Bible, nor his son Jesus, would have anything to do with the religions that are guilty of those things.
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Many of the things JW do are noble indeed. But I have to ask, what is YOUR definition of a "church"? Is a church not a gathering of people intent on worship of their creator? If so, then why must JW differentiate themselves from "churches"; even so far as to call their church a "Kingdom Hall"? Is being a separatist doing God's work?
 
bighammer said:
Sounds like you believe in the Trinity (?)

I'm happy to address each and every one ☝️ of the points that you've listed above. But that's quite a 'laundry list'! I work full time, so bear with me on this, it'll take a little time. But for now, I'll just say that the Trinity, or the teaching of a "triune god" cannot be found in ANY translation of the Bible. It's a man-made teaching that was introduced much much later than the written word.
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LOL.... how did you get trinity out of what I wrote??? I have one God, and his name is JESUS! Inseparatible! I have One that reigns in heaven and earth, and his name is Jesus, and he is God! One... Jesus... One.... Jesus.... and you read trinity in my post how???? :)
It is YOU, my friend, that believes in multiples. Lets count: You have God (that's one). You have Jesus is ruling and reigning in heaven (that's two). Shall we keep counting???
Been here, done that, with JW's in person at my front door. I proved to them it is they that have multiple people ruling with powers in heaven. And they've left without a word to say. No, I'm not bragging at all, just sharing the truth of God's Word :)
 
Mopar-Man said:
Many of the things JW do are noble indeed. But I have to ask, what is YOUR definition of a "church"? Is a church not a gathering of people intent on worship of their creator? If so, then why must JW differentiate themselves from "churches"; even so far as to call their church a "Kingdom Hall"? Is being a separatist doing God's work?
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Well, the term "church" refers to the people that make up the congregation:

In the Bible, the Greek term that is sometimes translated “church” refers to a group of worshippers, not to the building they meet in.

Note this example: When the apostle Paul wrote to the Christians in Rome, he sent greetings to a couple named Aquila and Priscilla and added: “Greet the church that meets in their home.” (Romans 16:5, Contemporary English Version) Paul didn’t intend for his greetings to be conveyed to a building. Rather, he was sending his greetings to people—the congregation that met in that home. *

So instead of calling our place of worship a church, we use the term “Kingdom Hall.”

Why “Kingdom Hall of Jehovah’s Witnesses”?
This term is fitting for a number of reasons:

  • The building is a hall, or meeting place.

  • We meet to worship Jehovah, the God of the Bible, and to witness, or testify, about him.—Psalm 83:18; Isaiah 43:12.

  • We also meet to learn about God’s Kingdom, of which Jesus often spoke.—Matthew 6:9, 10; 24:14; Luke 4:43.

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    The public is always welcome to any of our meetings. The atmosphere is relaxed and friendly!
 
Come to this house and your *** goes to work!

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318willrun said:
LOL.... how did you get trinity out of what I wrote??? I have one God, and his name is JESUS! Inseparatible! I have One that reigns in heaven and earth, and his name is Jesus, and he is God! One... Jesus... One.... Jesus.... and you read trinity in my post how???? :)
It is YOU, my friend, that believes in multiples. Lets count: You have God (that's one). You have Jesus is ruling and reigning in heaven (that's two). Shall we keep counting???
Been here, done that, with JW's in person at my front door. I proved to them it is they that have multiple people ruling with powers in heaven. And they've left without a word to say. No, I'm not bragging at all, just sharing the truth of God's Word :)
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Sorry 'bout that, I misunderstood what you were saying. I thought that you were believing in the trinity. My bad for jumping to conclusions.

But, friend, let me show you from whatever Bible you prefer, that Jesus is indeed subject to his father, the Creator. Jesus openly acknowledged that the Father was greater than him, and that he was sent to Earth to do Gods will. They are not one and the same; they are two separate, distinct individuals. I will use the King James Bible as well, if that's what you're familiar with and more comfortable with.


Food for thought (copied from jw.org):

“I and the Father are one,” said Jesus. (John 10:30)

Let us take a look at the context. In verse 25, Jesus stated that he did works in the name of his Father. From verses 27 to 29, he talked about symbolic sheep whom his Father had given him. Both statements by Jesus would have made little sense to his listeners if he and his Father were one and the same person. Instead, Jesus said, in effect, ‘My Father and I are so close-knit that no one can take away the sheep from me, just as no one can take them away from my Father.’ It is much like a son saying to his father’s enemy, ‘If you attack my father, you attack me.’ No one would conclude that this son and his father were the same person. But all could perceive the strong bond of unity between them.


*Note, in regards to the scriptures cited above, here are the same verses from the KJV:
John 10:25-29King James Version (KJV)
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

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Jesus and his Father, Jehovah God, are also “one” in the sense that they are in complete agreement as to intentions, standards, and values. In contrast with Satan the Devil and the first human couple, Adam and Eve, Jesus never wanted to become independent of God. “The Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he beholds the Father doing,” Jesus explained. “For whatever things that One does, these things the Son also does in like manner.”—John 5:19; 14:10; 17:8.


Again, the cited scriptures above, from the King James Bible:
John 5:19King James Version (KJV)
19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

John 14:10King James Version (KJV)
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

John 17:8King James Version (KJV)
8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.


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This strong bond of unity, however, does not make God and his Son, Jesus, indistinguishable from each other. They are two individuals. Each one has his own distinct personality. Jesus has his own feelings, thoughts, experiences, and free will. Nevertheless, he chose to submit his will to that of his Father. According to Luke 22:42, Jesus said: “Let, not my will, but yours take place.” These words would have been meaningless if his will could not differ from his Father’s. If Jesus and his Father were really one person, why did Jesus pray to God and humbly admit to not knowing things that only his Father knew?—Matthew 24:36.

KJV of the scriptures above:

Luke 22:42King James Version (KJV)
42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

Matthew 24:36King James Version (KJV)
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

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Members of many religions worship gods that are depicted as quarreling and fighting with their own family members. In Greek mythology, for example, Cronus overthrew his father, Uranus, and devoured his own children. How different this is from the oneness based on true love between Jehovah God and his Son, Jesus! And how this unity endears them to us! In fact, we have the incomparable privilege of being in union with these two highest Persons in all the universe. Regarding his followers, Jesus prayed: “I make request . . . that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us.”—John 17:20, 21.

Thus, when Jesus said, “I and the Father are one,” he was speaking about the closest bond possible between two persons.

Again, KJV:

John 17:21King James Version (KJV)
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.


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So is Jesus Almighty God? Nothing in the scriptures indicate that.

Jesus’ opposers accused him of making himself equal to God. (John 5:18; 10:30-33) However, Jesus never claimed to be on the same level as Almighty God. He said: “The Father is greater than I am.”—John 14:28.

Jesus’ early followers did not view him as being equal to Almighty God. For example, the apostle Paul wrote that after Jesus was resurrected, God “exalted him [Jesus] to a superior position.” Obviously, Paul did not believe that Jesus was Almighty God. Otherwise, how could God exalt Jesus to a superior position? —Philippians 2:9.

KJV:

John 14:28King James Version (KJV)
28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

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Lol, not sure what prompted that statement...

I'm sure this topic isn't for everyone. But admittedly, it's a bit of a deep subject for this type of forum. I apologize if I've offended anyone, but as one of Jehovahs Witnesses, I sorta felt that I should have spoken up about it.

I will say this, as a JW, I consider myself a Bible student, and I take it very serious. However, I harbor no resentment against anyone wanting to believe different! I love life, but I know that "this" isn't the life that God intended for humans. The future is bright, and the Bible's message is one of hope.
 
Bighammer....

thanks for your time, and I'm not offended at all. I will say, though you gave it a valiant attempt to separate Jesus from God, let me share also......
God is a spirit... that I think we agree. You cannot physically hurt God, nor kill him. So, the son was the "flesh" he robed himself in. Now he could visit through the flesh, suffer through the flesh, die through the flesh, and call the flesh the "son" of God, because it was the spirit that overshadowed Mary.
The "flesh" was called the son, but the spirit inside was the deity, the spirit of God Almighty manifested in the flesh. I'm a Son, I'm a Father, and a Uncle, but these are just titles that bear record of me, NOT my name. Nor does this make me 3 person(s). So it is with the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, these are just titles that bear record of him (not them in plural form), and does not make him 3 person(s). The name is Jesus.
  1. God - Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth". Who created? GOD.
  • Jesus - John 1:10 "he was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not" Question: So who made the world?? God or JESUS? Only Answer: Jesus is God
  1. God - John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" Who was the word? GOD.
  • Jesus - John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us" Question: So who was the WORD? God or JESUS? Only Answer: Jesus is God
God manifested in the flesh (Jesus) -I Timothy 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, justified in the spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory" How did God manifest himself? in the flesh - JESUS

ACTS 20:28 "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood" Who died on the cross??? This verse said God purchased with his own blood. So who went to the cross? God or Jesus? Only answer: Jesus is God.

My friend, I have many more scriptures...... but I'll let you answer EACH one of these. Oh, and by the way, you offered no explanation to the many scriptures I quoted in the previous post. Only a few trying to separate Jesus from God as being on person (two closely knitted together as you put it)
 
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And why not a "prophecy" scripture of Jesus to come that you can think on:

Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto to us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace."

Notice that it says "name" singular? No (s) on the end of name? Even with ALL those "titles", there was just "name", singular.

WHAT ?? "The mighty God"?? "The Everlasting Father"? Why not Jesus?? his name wasn't revealed yet. We now know the "name". Yes, that singular name. What child was born, what son was given..... JESUS! Ahhh..... that NAME. The mighty God, The everlasting Father.... with a NAME.... JESUS!
 
And I'll share a scripture in the old testament of God "Jehovah" ....
Isaiah 44:6 "........... I am the First, and I am the Last: and beside me there is no God"
but..... Jesus said.....
Revelation 1:17 "............... Fear not: I am the first and the last"
was this honorable son trying to under mind the Father???? Like Absalom did to David??
Or.... could it be.... Jehovah of old is Jesus of today.... :)
 
Where is Jesus today? The Lord said to my Lord. This is my Son in whom I am well pleased.Until I make your enemies a footstool. Our Father. Who was Jesus praying to in the garden? In my Fathers house are many mansions. an High priest in the order of;.
Those who never read the OT, can never get understanding. What was Jesus preaching in the synagogues? What was Paul preaching? What were any of the boys preaching?
When was the Bible assembled and by whom? What books were left out and why? Why are there something like 45,000 Protestant denominations? How do we show our love to "GOD"? Who was the Lake of Fire created for? Where do demons come from? What about the angels bound in the River Euphrates; who bound them there and Why? Giants? Mt.Hermon? Who was Perfect in all his generations? What does that even mean?
Pure and undefiled religion is to take care of the widows and orphans and to keep oneself from being polluted by the things of this world.
All the world had become corrupt. As it was in the Days of Noah. Nephilim where on the earth in those days and also afterwords. Who was Cane afraid of? Where was the land of Nod? How did the Israelites survive the desert? What were the Canaanites doing on all the high places, and in the groves? Who preceded the Israelites into the promised land when "GOD" said he would not go!? Why were they commanded to kill everything with the breath of life in it?
Why do not many prayers get answered today? Why is all the earth filled with sickness and disease, and pestilence,and how do animal diseases get into humans? What is with the sudden acceleration in earthquake activity? And raging seas? Is the earth really groaning as in childbirth? What about the spirits of the millions and millions of aborted babies;does their blood cry out to "GOD" like the blood of Abel? How long will it be until "GOD" says Enough!?
What was with those DA Israelites who convinced Aaron to make them a molten calf of gold, right there at the base of the mountain, in full view of the presence of "GOD" as a flame and fire and smoke and lightnings, and the thundering,booming, voice of "GOD",right there on the mountain top? They begged Moses to make the loud voice to stop. They begged Moses to go up and see what God wanted only make the loudness stop. And they said whatever GOD will tell them to do, they would do. Then they go and make an idol. What's up with that? And what's up with Aaron to do it?
Who did GOD marry, when and why? What was the covenant?What about the blessings and cursings? And when and Why did he divorce them? And what was the law in that regard? Why was the Word preached to the Gentiles? What was that Word? Why has Israel become an abomination?
Who is the prince of this world? and where is his dwelling place? Why is/are every imagination of man/men only evil continually? Where is all this evil coming from? What can we do to "endure"? How long?
What is the fullness of the Gentiles?
What is the role of the Holy Spirit? Trinity? You know how long that indoctrination stuck in my head? House of GOD;oh,pleassse. God is not in church! Jesus is not in Church! And for the most part neither is the HolySpirit! What affinity hath Good with evil; what affinity hath light with darkness? There is evil in the world; look around, it is everywhere.
Our battle is not with flesh and blood but it is a spiritual battle; get your armor on! Believers are admonished to Endure to the end.
There is a group of creatures already predestined to the Lake of Fire. PRE...DES TINED!, get it? These creatures were never created by God. They came into this world before the flood and mingled their seed with mankind. Somehow, their seed made it thru the flood. There have been since then,and are today,humans with genetically modified non GOD-created genes, Perhaps, the mark of the beast. If you carry the mark, you are also destined to the Lake of Fire. It is unavoidable. God Himself made the rule. And it will not be pleasant! But the Fire will not consume you in an instant. There is a Judgement preceding it; namely you will be made to suffer in your body, the sins you committed; Whatever that means, I cannot imagine it being pleasant. And no, you will never even see the Pearly gates!
But there is an escape. God is not willing that any should perish.
You need to get the demon seed out of your body. You need to purge the Mark of the Beast out! The Evilness has to go! You need to be reborn Righteous.
Look; God only wants one thing from his children; that we love Him. No big deal, just love. You know how to love right? You love your wife, your kids, your grankids maybe even. The problem is that the English language uses the word love in a rather wreckless way. I mean when you fell in love with your wife it wasn't instant. And there probably wasn't anything spiritual about it, if you know what I mean. For most men I would venture the word should have been LUST. You saw her, you lusted after her. Love came much later. Then as time went on, perhaps love flickered and you remembered your vows and that you would love her until death do you part. So you made a conscious DECISION to love her.
I like Ice-cream, steak and potatoes and corn. Hyup I like food period.I couldn't live without food. Some people would say they love eating. My body needs food water,air, clothing and shelter. I cannot live without these things. My mind needs intellectual stimulation. I like mindbenders. I love learning.
But man also has a spiritual component. And you have to feed it. How does that go again? oh yeah, man does not live by bread alone! So, love is a catch-all in the English language. Look, I do stuff for my family I would never do for others; that is love. But how do you love a GOD that you have never seen,nor heard,nor sensed with any of your God-given senses? I struggled with that for a long time.
Well it turns out, I had read the verse many,many times. It is written in John I think, and goes something like this; GOD speaking;By this I will know that you love me, that you obey my laws and commands. Shazzam! There it is. You wanna get to the PearlyGates?; prove your love, that is all. Well mostly. You are also required also to be a Believer. You are not required to be a JW or a Baptist, or a Lutheran,or any of the some 45,000 ists existing in the world today, and that includes Christian. Only be a Believer!
What did Jesus say to the thief on the cross next to Him, when the thief declared Lord remember me when you come into your Kingdom. That thief recognized Jesus as the King, that He was coming into a Kingdom, and that Jesus had the power to save him from the Lake of Fire. That is Belief, and confession. The thief was converted right there in the blink of an eye. And how did Jesus answer him? Assuredly I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise. This shows that the thief was forgiven of all his sins, and the thief would pass thru one of the twelve PearlyGates.The genes of that sinner must have been instantly purified, for nothing impure can enter the New Kingdom. Forget the sinner's prayer. Forget baptism. Forget the wine and bread. Forget the big speech in front of strangers.
Just confess Jesus as Lord, and BELIEVE.
It couldn't be any simpler.
You guys can; argue,debate,or propound, your doctrines forever, but in the end there are some 45,000 other different doctrines, and there's a really good chance that they are all messed up.
Just confess Jesus as Lord, and BELIEVE. Then if you live beyond the confession,love GOD.
BTW;
When you love God, He takes care of you.All you need is faith the size of a Mustard seed.Your name goes into the Book of Life. Ima thinking God never closes that book, but revues it all the time.I wonder if he keeps it on or near the throne at all times. Perhaps on his lap. I wonder if the HolySpirit is continuously flying around, saying here's one, here's another one, and God is continually writing names.
I wonder if there will be many names.I wonder if that is what means; the fullness of the Gentiles. I wonder if the book has a finite ending point, and when it is full, then the end comes;no more names.Your goose is cooked, no more room at the inn, you shouldda made your reservation earlier, sux to be you.
 
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Oh yeah; Genesis 1:26
Then God said,"Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;"
What would you like to twist that into?
This mind you, in the beginning; near the end of the creation week;Day 6.
 
Gary Mule Deer tells of answering a knock on his door to find two JW's on his porch. He invited them in to sit on his couch. He asked them "what should we do now"?
"We don't know", they said " We've never made it this far before"!
 
AJ/FormS said:
Oh yeah; Genesis 1:26
Then God said,"Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;"
What would you like to twist that into?
This mind you, in the beginning; near the end of the creation week;Day 6.
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Twist? God already had a heavenly host, and the image of Jesus was seen in the old testament, as he was the express image of God. So God has an image, but only seen through the "flesh" Jesus. Jesus said he was with the Father before the foundation of the earth. Before he created, he knew of the cross. He knows the begining to the end. So, was God speaking to a heavenly host of angels before the creation of man?? You search it out.
But A/J, I think we both accept that we will differ on the word of God from past discussions. :)
 
My worst nightmare is answering a knock on my door only to find a Jehovah's Witness selling Amway...
 
318willrun said:
Twist? God already had a heavenly host, and the image of Jesus was seen in the old testament, as he was the express image of God. So God has an image, but only seen through the "flesh" Jesus. Jesus said he was with the Father before the foundation of the earth. Before he created, he knew of the cross. He knows the begining to the end. So, was God speaking to a heavenly host of angels before the creation of man?? You search it out.
But A/J, I think we both accept that we will differ on the word of God from past discussions. :)
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Of course the heavenly host was/were there And so probably also was/were;Melchizedek,Michael,the one now called satan, and others.But they were not co-creators.
Of course Jesus was there,and very likely the 24 Elders as well, and the Four Living Creatures.
When God says "let US", it implies that they did it together. If there were/are co-creators, that implies there is more than One God.
When God says "in Our image", that implies that Adam looked like all the co-creators, and they may not be clones or twins or not all looking the same. Adam may have been a creation of the average image of all the co-creators.
When God says "in Our likeness" , is he saying that not only do we look like Him/Them, but that Adam was like Him/Them?
What is the purpose of the term God Almighty, except to differentiate the All-Powerful God, from the Us/Our/Our co-creators.
If Jesus existed in the beginning, How does entering the world through the womb of a women,validate his being God. Unless he somehow left all heavenly knowledge behind and came into this world exactly like the rest of us, absolutely ignorant little living creatures. And if that is true

And just who are the 24 Elders?
And just who/what are the Four Living Creatures?

My guess is there are many questions that I will have to save for just a little while.
 
Considering most here go to the KJV, "our" and "us" would be the "royal" usage of the word in reference to oneself.

You're dealing with an outdated usage of language without knowing the history of the language?
 
So then, what do the capitals mean?

If Us doesn't mean us, and Our doesn't mean our; what else in that book doesn't mean what it says? If you can't trust words as simple as these then can you trust any words written in that book?
Look, I'm a simple guy. I read what it says. Then I believe it.
 
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AJ/FormS said:
So then, what do the capitals mean?

If Us doesn't mean us, and Our doesn't mean our; what else in that book doesn't mean what it says? If you can't trust words as simple as these then can you trust any words written in that book?
Look, I'm a simple guy. I read what it says
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When you refer to yourself as "I" it is capitalized is it not?

The royal usage of "Us" and "We" are, too.

"If We told you We are not amused..."

Like I said, you have to be understand the language it is written in.

You also have to take into account that any reference to God, including a royal reference will be capitalized.
 
That's what shotguns are for
Krooser said:
My worst nightmare is answering a knock on my door only to find a Jehovah's Witness selling Amway...
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There is a very fine book that says the heart is the temple wherein all truth resides. Enough for me.
 
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