Keisler 5-speed conversion on Early A-body: Install has begun

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Longgone said:
Silverfish I noticed you still have the overhead spring on your clutch pedal, did you not have to remove it for use with your hydraulic clutch?
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Nope, I left the over-center spring in place, and it is probably the reason that my clutch effort is as light as the one on my SRT-4 (my friend with the 63 Valiant describes it as "cream puff" effort).:roll:
 
So does someone carry the tko 500 notched were Daves tko 500 is notched to kinda clear the torsion bar/cross member mount, or Would I need to notch it myself? I do have some fab skills (I made my oun radiator brakets and welded them to my radiator support), but Id be abit nervous cutting up a new transmission. Is it hard to do? Also what about the cross member, do i have to make one from scratch?
 
Dodgenut64 said:
So does someone carry the tko 500 notched were Daves tko 500 is notched to kinda clear the torsion bar/cross member mount, or Would I need to notch it myself? I do have some fab skills (I made my oun radiator brakets and welded them to my radiator support), but Id be abit nervous cutting up a new transmission. Is it hard to do? Also what about the cross member, do i have to make one from scratch?
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There are a couple places selling the modified cases (I've seen an ad for someone other than Keisler) but you may find it easier just to just cut out the tunnel and build from scratch than to cut the case and then follow Keislers instructions (which still requires some minor structural cutting, but at least gets you the custom crossmember).

If you are still feeling adventurous, here are some before/after transmission on the mill pics. Yes you need to build a custom crossmember to go along with your reinforced tunnel, but take your pick => $6K for minor tunnel cutting and welding (Keisler/other place) or $3500 via sourcing the parts yourself and a bit of customization/labor.

I'll see if I can find the other tranny outfit that modifies the cases, but who knows if they've ventured into early A's yet.

My favorite slogan from this activity was the Keisler tagline that appeared in all the magazines at the time => "Add a gear in an afternoon".......maybe in an E body.........

My friend with the 63 and I still laugh at that one........

Open case before cutting.jpg


Open case after cutting1.jpg


Open case after cutting.jpg


Trimmed and assembled1.jpg
 
Dodgenut64 said:
So does someone carry the tko 500 notched were Daves tko 500 is notched to kinda clear the torsion bar/cross member mount, or Would I need to notch it myself? I do have some fab skills (I made my oun radiator brakets and welded them to my radiator support), but Id be abit nervous cutting up a new transmission. Is it hard to do? Also what about the cross member, do i have to make one from scratch?
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And you don't have to make the crossmember from scratch, you just need to butcher a factory unit and reinforce it. Here is the cobbed unit I built. remove the interior detail, remove the majority of the face for clearance for the bottom of the tailshaft, and fabricate a plate that somewhat matches the profile of the face out of 1/4" steel.

remove me.jpg


Finished crossmember unit.jpg
 
Man this becoming a really great thread for us early a-body guys. Great additions Silverfish.

I would have preferred the Wilwood unit because it is easily replaced via Summit. Not only that it is easier to bleed as well. With the skills I have now I would totally source the parts myself and cut out the rear crossmember and fab a new floor tunnel. Then I would just copy my Keisler tranny mount. I could possibly trace out the dimensions for ya.
 
OK, Silverfish, so I kinda see the area you cut down. What was that knob cylander shaped thing you cut and ground down? Was it for if you wanted the shifter in that location? I think i can manage that part. Could you post us a parts list so I can really see how much I would save piecing this thing together? I mean everything I need to do this swap. I think the last time i checked the Keisler kit (minus the pedals) would run me close to $4500, but i think thats for everything including clutchs, flywheels, the hydrualic setup, drive shaft, tko500, bolts, crossmember, speed cable, bell housing, transmission mount......that it?
As far as the crossmember, I was wondering if the Kiesler one had room to go forward or backward a touch? The reason Im asking is, my Hemi sits back abit more towards the firewall then your guys setup and I wonder if the Keisler mount would even work. Hmmmm. Thanks for the help, Jim
 
silver fish,,any thing you have,would be great,,, im still collecting info,and still waiting on my bell housing from quick time,,,
silver fish,, after that maching of the tail shaft did you still do any mods to the hoop of the trans cross member?? im sure you did,,thanks don
 
fstfish66 said:
silver fish,,any thing you have,would be great,,, im still collecting info,and still waiting on my bell housing from quick time,,,
silver fish,, after that maching of the tail shaft did you still do any mods to the hoop of the trans cross member?? im sure you did,,thanks don
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I will try and collect receipts and put the part numbers in a table this weekend.

Regarding the hoop: yes it had to be severely hacked, and welded into a "box" to reinforce it, however I wasn't as worried since I tied the frames together. I will attach some photos in a subsequent post.
 
SilverFish said:
I will try and collect receipts and put the part numbers in a table this weekend.

Regarding the hoop: yes it had to be severely hacked, and welded into a "box" to reinforce it, however I wasn't as worried since I tied the frames together. I will attach some photos in a subsequent post.
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That would be great to have a parts list. And any pics that you may have of the trans tunnel. I really think you can get a t56 in there if you really wanted to with the frame tied together and the crossmember boxed. Plus the the tranny mount ties things together as well. If I get my hands on a cheap t56 I'll put one it in the dart since quicktime makes the bellhousing for a 440 to t56. Not sure if it is the GM t56 or the viper t56 though. I would have to look at their site.

Would love to see what your floor tunnel looks like with and without the carpeting.
 
DAVE quick time makes the 440 to viper T 56

silver fiash,,, is that the stock shifter location or did u make a adapter ??
yes please post or e mail me any info while im still collecting info and parts


i talked with ross at quick time,,gota tracking number, my quick time scatter shield small block mopar to tremec TKO ford pattern is on its way finally,,,it will be dilvered and ill be in detroit for the auto rama custom car event,,,hope UPS leaves it,,,,
 
fstfish66 said:
DAVE quick time makes the 440 to viper T 56

silver fiash,,, is that the stock shifter location or did u make a adapter ??
yes please post or e mail me any info while im still collecting info and parts


i talked with ross at quick time,,gota tracking number, my quick time scatter shield small block mopar to tremec TKO ford pattern is on its way finally,,,it will be dilvered and ill be in detroit for the auto rama custom car event,,,hope UPS leaves it,,,,
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I used the rear shifter mounting location, but I removed the front half of the shifter plate and corresponding section of the tailshaft case to create clearance for the hoop. The shifter is actually a 67-70 A-body shifter that I cut at the base, removed about 6 inches from the lever, and welded it in an "ergonomically acceptable position". I then made an insert for the Tremec shifter ball and pressed it into the knob to accommodate the threads (5/16" vs 3/8"). Before removing the segment from the original shifter I felt like I was rowing a boat and found myself almost bouncing my knuckles off the dash. It felt very Ratfink-ish.............:toothy7:

Here are a couple shots of the hoop, the tunnel openings, and the test fit. Finally, the bare tunnel completed. Not my finest work, I have to admit (thats sealant, not booger weld) but still not pretty. If I had it to do over again, I would have just cut the factory hoop out completely and replaced it with either 2" box tubing or a simple 2" round bent into a "U". I also would have cut the tunnel opening larger to accommodate more room for various "plugs".

I run solid motor mounts, so I don't have to worry about movement, but still, more room would have been nice for things like removal, clutch replacement, etc........

Crossover artwork.jpg


crossover clearance.jpg


cockpit test 2.jpg


new interior in progress1.jpg
 
silver fish,very kool,,,excuse me maybe its too early and im not awake,,,but i dont see where you modified the shifter,, looks to me to come thur the floor in a comfortable position,, the tunnel repair looks real good,,and it appeares in the pic that the hoop is stock,,nice work,,,
 
silver fish,, if u have pics or part numbers on the mc cloed stuff,, let me know thats a ton,,,what a great web site,, and great car guy friends to offer all this info
 
Someone had made a hoop and few pages back for a crossmember, but i didnt see it welded in.
 
fstfish66 said:
silver fish,very kool,,,excuse me maybe its too early and im not awake,,,but i dont see where you modified the shifter,, looks to me to come thur the floor in a comfortable position,, the tunnel repair looks real good,,and it appeares in the pic that the hoop is stock,,nice work,,,
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I just noticed that the shifter handle in the image I posted was the stubby I used when I first got the car back on the road. I will have to actually take a new photo of the handle I spoke of! I posted an earlier shot of the handle in the car, but the "custom-ness" is covered by the boot.

I have attached a couple shots of the Mcleod hydraulic throwout. It is available in a few different configurations for the Tremec, the difference being the starting position of the piston attached to the bearing. At the time, Mcleod sold the pistons separately in case with stack height of the pressure plate and clutch fingers you needed to change the starting position. Changing the piston was easy (my friend had to do it for his Valiant) and the o-ring design makes rebuilds look simple. I really like the fact that it makes the header clearance in the location where the fork usually resides plentiful.

DSC05176.jpg


DSC05177.jpg
 
OK,

Sorry for the delay, but here it is. I have to preface the attached list by saying that Fred Sanderson at Dark Horse can probably get you the assembled parts listed at a much better price than can be achieved separately, and he was extremely helpful in working through the details when parts needed to be swapped out to accommodate some of the early a-body idiosyncrasies. For instance I needed to use the 7/8" Wilwood master cylinder, though the Mcleod throwout kit comes with a 3/4". Additionally, he was prompt at replying to questions and putting me directly in touch with vendors as needed. It should also be noted that the tranny will not simply bolt in without modifications either to the tunnel hoop or the shifter plates on the transmission itself (see earlier images).

Component Manufacturer Part Number
Tremec TKO-600 (GM-RR64) Tremec TTC-TCET5009
31 Spline slip yoke (1330 series u-joint) SY1330-6000
Bellhousing (small block Mopar to GM) Lakewood LAK-77-325
Hydraulic Throwout bearing w/ M/C Mcleod MCL-13645
(note this kit comes with a 3/4" master)
SFA rated steel flywheel (130 tooth) Mcleod MCL-46410216A
Mopar to GM pilot bushing Dorman DHP-5030
(note: needed to make adapter to mate bushing to back of crank)
Pressure plate (3000#) Mcleod MCL-360709
Kevlar paddle clutch disc Mcleod MCL-260871R
(11" dual surface disc 1 1/8" x 26 spline reverse hub for Ford/Mopar)
Pressure plate (2400#) Mcleod MCL-360710
Performance clutch disc (11") Mcleod MCL-260171R
Hydraulic master cylinder (7/8") Wilwood 260-3376

Unfortunately it won't let me attach the actual file, so I cut and pasted the numbers and cleaned them up as best possible. If you have any specific questions please let me know.

Cheers!
 
Not to steal your thread but wanted to know if you are ready for SpringFling?
 
not yet but getting closer. I will be there even if I i'm not completely finished
 
I was going to bring the Dart but it's not finished and won't be by the time we have to leave so it will be the Charger
 
Hey guys, the new challenger is getting a six speed, Its the same tremec transmission from the viper, check out the link and the pic http://www.allpar.com/cars/dodge/challenger.html
Sense i gotta butcher my tranmission tunnel anyway, Id half consider just waiting for these to hit the streets already set up with a hemi, but that t56 six speed is pretty heavy isnt it? Still cool they are actually gonna put one in the new challenger. Well, it was a nice thought anyway.

interior.jpg
 
silver fish, thanks,,, im a little confused,, every thing ive read,, every one ive talked to,, all other conversations ive watched on the mopar sites show using the ford bolt pattern tremec TKO,, i have already recieved my QUICK TIME scatter shield, the first one that is SFI approved and certified,, the bell housing is for the tremec ford pattern to small block mopar,,,i currently use a tilton hyd bearing and 7/8 master for the mopar 833 4 speed,,with an ansen scatter shield that was made back in the day to fit the early A,,after i gather up al the tremec stuff and get it converted i wil sell all the 4 speed stuff and hyd bearing,,,thanks again,,, check and see if you have the GM or FORD tremec,,, from what ive read and heard,, the GM input shaft is way off center top to bottom,,,compared to the ford/mopar
 
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