Lightweight flywheel options and selection criteria.

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Newbomb Turk said:
I’m not smarter, I’m just not afraid.

Just because someone on here says not to distant mean **** to me.

Maybe you need to figure out why this bothers you.

Are you pissed because you fall into the category of non tuner?

Do you love birth control clutches?

Do you even own a car with a clutch in it?

It’s not that I’m smarter. It’s I don’t let internet bullies intimidate me.

Get over it and learn to tune. Better yet, get a stick car and show me why YOU can run an aluminum flywheel.
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I have a stick car, 440 with A833 and a Brewers flywheel balanced for a cast 440 which I don't believe there is an aluminum option for, and if there is, not worth the cost spread for how little I bomb around in the Duster.

I just really enjoy getting a rise out of you and your wacky logic. For someone as smart, progressive, confident, and loony as you are its entertaining that you cannot seem to ignore the internet bullies. Or, ignore people like me who don't do or say weird stuff to look smart and belittle everyone else as a dinosaur.... Oh and Happy New Year!
 
My Demon weighs 3140 on a track scale. 833 4 speed. When I tried a Centerforce aluminum flywheel, it was only 560ish HP, with 4:10 rear. It was herky jerky at low speed.......I'm talking like 40 MPH just cruising in 4th. Annoying as all hell. Always had to run a gear lower to get the revs up to stop the jerkiness. It's driven a lot of street miles, so NO GO alum flywheel for that.

at that time, I was hitting the track very occasionally and it was a ***** to launch. 2 step at 4000, it bogged. raise it to 4500 and it blew the tires off. I never got a real good chance to track tune it, cause eventually I got the old "you're done sonny". No roll bar.

Went back to a lightweight steel, can't recall which one, but 2 step at 4000 gave me a decent 60 foot. no bog, just enough spin.

Now at 600 ish, same steel wheel, 4500 launch on pavement ( not track) after a nice burnout and you're gone. I think the aluminum would bog.

This is my own real world experience with my car with me driving. Could be someone else has great results with them. Mine is in my shed if anyone's interested.
 
Muswagon said:
I have a stick car, 440 with A833 and a Brewers flywheel balanced for a cast 440 which I don't believe there is an aluminum option for, and if there is, not worth the cost spread for how little I bomb around in the Duster.

I just really enjoy getting a rise out of you and your wacky logic. For someone as smart, progressive, confident, and loony as you are its entertaining that you cannot seem to ignore the internet bullies. Or, ignore people like me who don't do or say weird stuff to look smart and belittle everyone else as a dinosaur.... Oh and Happy New Year!
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I just don’t ignore the guys who say something can’t be done.

And you can buy bolt on weights for cast cranks for an aluminum flywheel.

For you, it’s not worth an aluminum flywheel.

For someone who doesn’t have a flywheel and has a long stroke then say no reason to not use an aluminum flywheel.

Because it can be done and they will drive IF you don’t have a toggle switch clutch and you can tune.
 
Ironmike said:
My Demon weighs 3140 on a track scale. 833 4 speed. When I tried a Centerforce aluminum flywheel, it was only 560ish HP, with 4:10 rear. It was herky jerky at low speed.......I'm talking like 40 MPH just cruising in 4th. Annoying as all hell. Always had to run a gear lower to get the revs up to stop the jerkiness. It's driven a lot of street miles, so NO GO alum flywheel for that.

at that time, I was hitting the track very occasionally and it was a ***** to launch. 2 step at 4000, it bogged. raise it to 4500 and it blew the tires off. I never got a real good chance to track tune it, cause eventually I got the old "you're done sonny". No roll bar.

Went back to a lightweight steel, can't recall which one, but 2 step at 4000 gave me a decent 60 foot. no bog, just enough spin.

Now at 600 ish, same steel wheel, 4500 launch on pavement ( not track) after a nice burnout and you're gone. I think the aluminum would bog.

This is my own real world experience with my car with me driving. Could be someone else has great results with them. Mine is in my shed if anyone's interested.
Click to expand...


What kind of timing curve were you using??

The first thing I think of when I hear at 40 mph it’s bucking I think timing.
 
Ironmike said:
My Demon weighs 3140 on a track scale. 833 4 speed. When I tried a Centerforce aluminum flywheel, it was only 560ish HP, with 4:10 rear. It was herky jerky at low speed.......I'm talking like 40 MPH just cruising in 4th. Annoying as all hell. Always had to run a gear lower to get the revs up to stop the jerkiness. It's driven a lot of street miles, so NO GO alum flywheel for that.

at that time, I was hitting the track very occasionally and it was a ***** to launch. 2 step at 4000, it bogged. raise it to 4500 and it blew the tires off. I never got a real good chance to track tune it, cause eventually I got the old "you're done sonny". No roll bar.

Went back to a lightweight steel, can't recall which one, but 2 step at 4000 gave me a decent 60 foot. no bog, just enough spin.

Now at 600 ish, same steel wheel, 4500 launch on pavement ( not track) after a nice burnout and you're gone. I think the aluminum would bog.

This is my own real world experience with my car with me driving. Could be someone else has great results with them. Mine is in my shed if anyone's interested.
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What clutch and engine displacement? Thanks for sharing.
 
YOU are like a toggle switch, its yes/no or on/off with ya... I have never said something cannot be done, I have always said either why do it, or you shouldn't do it....
 
well, Newbomb....you're gonna LOVE my timing curve! 33 degrees LOCKED. I tried all kinds of curves and it wants 33 degrees period.

and for cpearce, it's a 360, .040 whatever that is. 410? i think....

My clutch and P plate came from American Powertrain. Gave them my numbers and they set me up in about 2 weeks. I'm pretty sure the clutch is sintered iron. I could be wrong. It's been awhile. When it's time to replace, i would get the same set up from them. Love it!

Couple pics for no good reason.
mot2.jpg
car2.jpg
 
Ironmike said:
well, Newbomb....you're gonna LOVE my timing curve! 33 degrees LOCKED. I tried all kinds of curves and it wants 33 degrees period.

and for cpearce, it's a 360, .040 whatever that is. 410? i think....

My clutch and P plate came from American Powertrain. Gave them my numbers and they set me up in about 2 weeks. I'm pretty sure the clutch is sintered iron. I could be wrong. It's been awhile. When it's time to replace, i would get the same set up from them. Love it!

Couple pics for no good reason.
View attachment 1716351351View attachment 1716351352
Click to expand...
Sharp car. Not so sure about the valve covers but to each his own.
 
I would never run a 22# flywheel in a 3700 pound car. You need the inertia to get it rolling.

I would just get a steel 30# unit and call it a day. I think you'll be very sorry if you go with a 22# unit.

Tom
 
PROSTOCKTOM said:
I would never run a 22# flywheel in a 3700 pound car. You need the inertia to get it rolling.

I would just get a steel 30# unit and call it a day. I think you'll be very sorry if you go with a 22# unit.

Tom
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I agree. That seems really heavy to me. I know nothing about E bodies, other than I'd like one with a mild engine, auto trans and A/C. For those really hot days in August.
 
Ironmike said:
I agree. That seems really heavy to me. I know nothing about E bodies, other than I'd like one with a mild engine, auto trans and A/C. For those really hot days in August.
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I guess that number is a touch high. Curb weight was 3400 lbs but throw my big butt in there and a tool kit and you’re at 3700.
 
Well I might as well get into this aluminum flywheel argument. I,ve been running aluminum flywheels on both of my cars for years now. Like Newbomb Turk said heavy flywheels and on off clutches should have been left back in the 60,s. My Dart is a 4 spd Jerico and weighs in at just over 3400# in race weight and will carry the front end out at least a car length another car length or so pass that it is in second gear another car length and it crosses the 60 foot clock (best 60 foot 1.46). Thats with a 18# alu. flywheel, sintered iron disc, and a long pressure plate with an aluminum pressure ring, my whole clutch set up is probably lighter than the pressure plates most of you guys run. My Dart is a street car it gets run through the exhaust out to the factory exhaust tips( wrong for my year, but so is dual exhaust). Tried a small Drag and Drive this past fall, after driving about a 170 miles to an 1/8 mile track. My son and I let the Dart cool down while we switched from street tires to the M/T 9 28 slicks and unloaded the tools, jack, jack stands and spare parts out of the car. The Dart ran a 6.75, 6.74, 6.82, and a 6.74, the 3 .70's were high 1.4 60' the .82 spun to a 1.53 60'. the 1/4 mile track the Dart ran in the 10.6 to 10.7 We got a second place plack for most consistent car, first place car was a newer 5.0 Mustang GT with a 10 speed automatic, he ran with in a few 10 thousands of a second on every pass 1/8 and 1/4.
As far as driving a heavy car on the street with an aluminum flywheel, I have one in my 2012 Challenger R/T Classic, the 5.7 Hemi is making just north of 400 hp to the rear wheels with a cam, 6.4 intake, 1 7/8 long tube headers. The car from a 2500 rpm roll in first gear will snap the tires loose and does not catch traction till mid third gear, not bad for a 4300+ pound car with 6 spd Tremec and 275 45 20 tires on the back and a 18# flywheel.
 
Ironmike said:
well, Newbomb....you're gonna LOVE my timing curve! 33 degrees LOCKED. I tried all kinds of curves and it wants 33 degrees period.

and for cpearce, it's a 360, .040 whatever that is. 410? i think....

My clutch and P plate came from American Powertrain. Gave them my numbers and they set me up in about 2 weeks. I'm pretty sure the clutch is sintered iron. I could be wrong. It's been awhile. When it's time to replace, i would get the same set up from them. Love it!

Couple pics for no good reason.
View attachment 1716351351View attachment 1716351352
Click to expand...
I suspect your low speed surge, or bucking may have less to do with the lightweight flywheel and more to do with the locked timing. I've been down that road myself before.

Nice Demon!
 
Here's some data to stir the pot :)

Although not a comparison of actual flywheel weights as the flywheel/clutch in these tests were exactly the same, here's instead a comparison of entire engine rotating assy weights. Actual Racepak data was collected from my personal 2525lb driver/car, also made some rough calculations using that data...
...Crankshaft weight difference about 6.9lbs.
...Bobweight difference was about 3.27lbs

NA sbc power.
Exact same heads/intake/carb/cam/compression/timing.
Exact same car/weight/trans/flywheel/clutch/gearing/tires.
Exact same location under nearly identical conditions.
Can't get any more real world than testing an engine in an actual car on an actual road.

With Scat 9000 cast crank (49lbs), steel rods, 1863g bobweight, WOT no-load rev rate of 8500rev/sec.
...1st gear WOT from 4500 to 5500- 1975rev/sec accel rate.
Calculations show 116.18ftllbs absorbed by the rotating assy, 383.82ftlbs twisting the trans input shaft.
...3rd gear WOT from 4500 to 5500- 535rev/sec accel rate.
Calculations show 31.47ftlbs absorbed by the rotating assy, 468.53ftlbs twisting the trans input shaft.

With Scat F43 lightweight crank (42.1lbs), aluminum rods, 1492g bobweight, WOT no-load 4500-5500 rev rate of 11,515rev/sec.
...1st gear WOT from 4500 to 5500- 2217rev/sec accel rate.
Calculations show 96.27ftllbs absorbed by the rotating assy, 403.73ftlbs twisting the trans input shaft.
...3rd gear WOT from 4500 to 5500- 541rev/sec accel rate.
Calculations show 23.49ftlbs absorbed by the rotating assy, 476.51ftlbs twisting the trans input shaft.

Both engines make the same torque when operating steady state @ 5000rpm, the differences really show up when the engine is gaining or losing rpm at a quick rate against WOT.
...WOT from 4500 to 5500rpm in 1st gear, the lightweight rotating assy hit the transmission's input shaft with about 19.91ftlbs more torque.
...WOT from 4500 to 5500rpm in 3rd gear, the lightweight rotating assy hit the transmission's input shaft with about 7.98ftlbs more torque.

Full diameter flywheel/clutch weight is typically centered farther from the axis of rotation than the crankshaft, making it an even more effective place to gain/lose weight in the rotating assy.

Grant
 
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