MuuMuu101's 68 Dart, A Learning Process...

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itchy666 said:
Stripped flywheel teeth stopping the starter engaging at a certain spot?
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I thought about that and hope it isn't that. I really don't want to replace the flywheel. On top of that, apparently this is a "custom billet steel flywheel" as the shop that had my car who brought a Centerforce rep out couldn't figure out that they could use a 340 flywheel on an internally balanced 408 despite me telling them 3 times.

HemiDenny said:
I might be late to the party, but sounds like you have a starter solenoid (occasionally) sticking, choke hanging up / set incorrectly , and / or too rich carburetor settings.

BTW.....way to hang with it, hot rods can be as fickle as a high school prom queen.
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I hope the solenoid is sticking and not flywheel teeth missing. When I took it to Autozone, they tested it 4 times (obviously without load on the teeth) and it engaged every time.

As for the choke, right now it's open, but nothing is holding it open. I have to find a rod to place on the thing to leave it open. Before, my manual choke cable wouldn't allow the choke to open completely only leaving me with a half-open choke for about a year. I'm assuming that caused my black spark plugs.

Yeah, the Dart is definitely an attention *insert bad word of choice here*. Whenever she goes to a car show and she gets all of the attention, she seems to do great. Whenever it's time to go to work or go for a cruise around town, she throws a fit. My fiance really loved the Dart and driving it around when the car was running. She even called Sundays, "Dart Day," because we'd go around for a 20-30 minute cruise.

itchy666 said:
Somethin suss with the starter, seems like its not throwing out enough to engage?
As for runnin like a PIG listen to these guys n go thru the process, could be dizzy,timing,bad fuel, vac leak,**** wiring,fkd lead,cracked cap .....................etc
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Thanks! Hoping it's just the choke. When I install the efi kit I have, hopefully the car becomes way more bearable.
 
As far as timing and such, you have to start checking all the basic things as if you are starting fresh... rotate the engine to line up the timing mark, pull the cap and see how close the rotor is pointing to #1 or #6 tower on the distributor. I had a 318 once that actually twisted the part of the distributor that inserts into the intermediate shaft! Acted just like your car is doing now; so maybe the distributor did move or something funny.
 
I really wasn't able to do much with it, but on Tuesday I was able to start it after multiple starter attempts. Once I started it, I just let the car sit and warm up to operating temperature. It didn't have any problems warming up. I also used part of an old wire hanger to make something to keep the choke open. Although the car had been sitting for a while, I didn't get black soot coming out of the exhaust when I started the car up. So, it seems like I'm heading in the right direction.

I have a video of it running. I'm still unsure of the water pump pulley. It may be my eyes are fooling me or the play is normal. But I hear something clanking around. I walked around the car and it seemed most dominant under the car by the driver's side door. Again, I took a video, but the video doesn't capture all the sounds. I can post it later tonight. I hope something isn't left over in the bellhousing and it's just me being paranoid. Anyway, the starter and spark plugs are going to have to come out and I'm going to have to inspect, the starter and flywheel and see if any teeth are missing or if something is chilling in the bellhousing.
 
For an FYI if you have a starter off a car you can test it yourself with a set of jumper cables.
 
MuuMuu101 said:
Here's the video I promised:

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Replace that water pump!!!!!!!!

There's way too much wobble and movement on that water pump pulley. Either that's a terribly made pulley, or you're losing the bearings on that water pump shaft.

As far as the noise, I don't like it. It's hard to diagnose sounds from video's though, the mic's can magnify some sounds and minimize others. But the sounds coming from that engine in the video would concern me if that's how they sound in person. It might not be anything, but I would want to find the source so I had an explanation.
 
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I just read through this thread, you have a nice car with some good parts. I know there are many others on here who use the QuickTime bell, but I think it is important for them to have an inspection cover, and IMO it's worth it for them to machine one in. Just makes it easier to inspect things like your clutch and flywheel, the throwout bearing. Etc. I agree, your water pump has to go. That an easy thing to do, couple hours. I DO NOT like that knocking, I sure hope you get this figured out.
 
72bluNblu said:
Replace that water pump!!!!!!!!

There's way too much wobble and movement on that water pump pulley. Either that's a terribly made pulley, or you're losing the bearings on that water pump shaft.

As far as the noise, I don't like it. It's hard to diagnose sounds from video's though, the mic's can magnify some sounds and minimize others. But the sounds coming from that engine in the video would concern me if that's how they sound in person. It might not be anything, but I would want to find the source so I had an explanation.
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Take off the belt for the water pump. Start engine. See if the noise goes away...
 
Use the old broom handle trick to find the noise. Broom handle on your ear. Other end on the part in question.
 
72Dart6pack said:
Use the old broom handle trick to find the noise. Broom handle on your ear. Other end on the part in question.
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Long handle screw driver or pry bar also works. Noise travels funny through metal. If he suspects the water pump it is an easy test to remove the belt.
 
72bluNblu said:
Replace that water pump!!!!!!!!

There's way too much wobble and movement on that water pump pulley. Either that's a terribly made pulley, or you're losing the bearings on that water pump shaft.

As far as the noise, I don't like it. It's hard to diagnose sounds from video's though, the mic's can magnify some sounds and minimize others. But the sounds coming from that engine in the video would concern me if that's how they sound in person. It might not be anything, but I would want to find the source so I had an explanation.
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mopardude318 said:
I just read through this thread, you have a nice car with some good parts. I know there are many others on here who use the QuickTime bell, but I think it is important for them to have an inspection cover, and IMO it's worth it for them to machine one in. Just makes it easier to inspect things like your clutch and flywheel, the throwout bearing. Etc. I agree, your water pump has to go. That an easy thing to do, couple hours. I DO NOT like that knocking, I sure hope you get this figured out.
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mosleyme said:
Take off the belt for the water pump. Start engine. See if the noise goes away...
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I will try removing the belt on Friday and see if the noise goes away. Regardless, I'm going to buy a new Milodon unit in the next week or so. I'm also going to try pulling spark plugs and inspecting flywheel and starter teeth. Hopefully the starter teeth are present, or I'm going to be pretty unhappy. Otherwise, I have no worries. Hopefully the temp runs down to the mid-90's on Friday.
 
So, I took a look at the underhood of the car for the first time since my last post. There doesn't seem to be an easy way of removing the water pump belt as there's no idler/tension pulley. I can't get an allen into my water pump pulley. It doesn't seem like I'll be able to remove the water pump without removing the radiator.

So, I think my plan of attack is probably going to be the falling:
1) Remove the starter to inspect the flywheel.
2) Empty fluids and remove radiator.
3) Replace water pump.
4) Inspect to see if things are fixed...

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todays tech tip.....
loosen up the alternator and swing it down....the water pump / alternator belt will slip right off both.
 
I pulled the water pump belt and I still here a knocking noise. When I started the car up, it only took one try and idling was super easy. I didn't even have to babysit the car as it idled.



When I later spun the water pump pulley san belt, it seemed to rotate smoothly. I didn't feel any crunchyness or radial play.
 
check the water pump off the list. IMO...next remove the valve covers for a look see top side....could have a a rocker arm failure.
 
*ALERT!!! LOTS OF VENTING IN THIS POST!!!*

Back story on my life this year. Lots of good things going on, don't get me wrong. But life is pretty crazy. So, in February, I proposed to my gf and she said yes. That's right, I'm engaged. April, I left my old job as a design engineer in Aerospace because I just wasn't happy and am now working as a Process Engineer for a large medical company. I'm super happy with that as I get to be really hands on and am working on some cool technology. In June, I graduated with my master's degree in Mechanical Engineering and am so thankful for that. Unfortunately, due to stress, school took a tole on my body and energy and now I'm working at getting healthy again by working out 1.5+ hours a day (5 days a week), eating healthy, and trying to get at least 7 hours of sleep a night. And now I'm planning a wedding for next February while trying to buy a home in Southern California this winter.

So, as you can see, I'm pretty busy. Usually when I get home, I'm pretty drained and don't have much time or energy to do anything but prepare for the next day. And the Dart being down is really a pain in my butt because it just adds stress instead of relieving it. Don't get me wrong, I want to work on it (to relieve stress) and have been inspiring myself by watching Youtube shows like Mighty Car Mods and Roadkill. I'd like the car to be running and reliable before I move, because when I move, I'll likely be in a condo which means there will be a lot less room for me to work, if my HOA even allows me to work on the car. Not only that, it sucks I worked hard and sold a bunch of parts to purchase all of my EFI components, but now I can't install it, because I'm having trouble making the car reliable first. If I could convince my fiance to bring the car to the wedding, I think that would be a cool and memorable moment, but it's not looking likely with the car in a constant cycle of breaking down for 3 months and running for a month.

On to today. I finally had the time and energy to work on the car. The plan was to pull the spark plugs and the starter, turn the crank and ensure all the teeth are on the flywheel. So, I pull the spark plugs, jack the car up, and remove the starter. No problems. Go to turn the crank with my breaker bar and, it was probably the fact that I was trying to turn the crank from underneath the car, but the car moved a little and freaked me out. I was only able to see about a 1/4 of the teeth and they seemed ok. So, me being freaked out, I said, "F it! The teeth are good, let's just put the starter back on!" I got to put the starter on and the small connector (I'm assuming for grounding) snapped off when I was tightening it. As I was unbolting everything (for the millionth time), the starter falls out of my hand and bashed into my teeth. Luckily, I brush twice a day, so my teeth seem to be fine, but I cut a little bit of my lip. So, now I have to replace this wire (I hate electrical work) and the shop who built the car has this really nice wire wrapping around it that will all have to be removed to replace the wire. I'm so over everything breaking whenever I touch this car.

So, that's where I'm at right now. My per-marital counseling pastor took real interest into my car this past Sunday and gave me a contact to a really good guy who works on classic cars not too far away. The guy has 5 stars on Yelp. Now that's tempting me to ship the car off again, which sucks because I feel like I am a quitter every time I do that. But, I'm trying to buy a house, so I may not have the funds to do that. I wish I wasn't so busy.

Sorry for the vent...

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You can crimp another end on that wire. I forget if it is a 14ga or 12ga wire, with a number 10 ring terminal.
If that starter is giving you fuss, a cheapie ebay mini starter from a '97 dodge Dakota with a 5.2 will work just fine.
 
Home sales in Southern California are down 11.8% so that may work in your buying favor. Keep it all in perspective and it will work out well. The car is nice and basically just suffering some minor hiccups that all older classics suffer - don't worry about this and it will work out well in time. Keep the faith, stay strong, and keep us posted.
 
mopardude318 said:
You can crimp another end on that wire. I forget if it is a 14ga or 12ga wire, with a number 10 ring terminal.
If that starter is giving you fuss, a cheapie ebay mini starter from a '97 dodge Dakota with a 5.2 will work just fine.
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I grabbed a #10 ring terminal and a crimping tool from work today. I bought my own on Amazon, but that won't come for a few days. I also got a heat gun and a soldering iron kit, as I figured it would be inevitable I work with electronics in the future and they were cheap (~$20/each). I crimped the new ring terminal on (it was my first time so it wasn't pretty), and installed the starter. Prior to that, I made sure that all of the teeth were on the flywheel, and they were. When I went to go connect the battery, the battery sparked and the starter turned on. So, I had to go back, and remove the starter and make sure that the power chord wasn't touching the ground. I reinstalled the starter and I guess it didn't seat right because it made gear noises every time I hit the accelerator pedal. So now I have to go back and uninstall and reinstall the starter for the 10th time.

The starter is still free wheeling at start-up. But one thing I noticed is that it sounded the same as when the starter engaged when I had the shorting boo boo with the battery. So, now I'm wondering, could it be that I'm not getting enough fuel (just changed spark plugs, so spark should be good) to the cylinder and the engine is just free wheeling until it can finally detonate the fuel? Or do you still think it is a starter engagement problem?

Anywho, I probably won't be able to work on the car until Friday. I've been cutting out 15-30 mins of my workout the past couple days and that has been helping me a lot to get out and work on the car. It's almost like working on the car ends up being part of my workout, especially when it's super hot outside. I was sweating quite a bit and it was only 7 pm.

Vs29H1B said:
Home sales in Southern California are down 11.8% so that may work in your buying favor. Keep it all in perspective and it will work out well. The car is nice and basically just suffering some minor hiccups that all older classics suffer - don't worry about this and it will work out well in time. Keep the faith, stay strong, and keep us posted.
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Yes and no... Sales are going down because interest rates went up and home values are starting to become ridiculous. My fiance and I are still saving for 20% down + closing fees/buffer and should have enough by the winter. Hopefully, by then, the buyers die down and we can negotiate a little bit as people are trying to get out of there homes by the end of the year.

I'm trying hard. I really want to fix this on my own just to say I can do it. Which is a lot easier now that I have a bit more time. With this car, I always feel like I take it 80% of the way there and then give up and give it to someone else to finish. Then I get screwed afterwards.
 
I just reset the starter and it felt like the teeth were engaged when I installed it. It still had problems with starting up. Usually, I'd have to give the car quite a bit of gas before it would engage and start. Today was the opposite. Giving gas first did nothing but free-spin. I actually turned the key without putting my foot on the pedal and barely gave it a little gas before the car started up. So, now I feel more confident it is a starter issue. I was just thinking about getting this starter from Autozone: https://www.autozone.com/batteries-...100936_0?fromString=search&make=&model=&year=

I let the car idle, and it seemed to idle fine. I let it idle for about 15 mins and let it get up to temp. I couldn't really hear the extra noise from the engine compartment, only from underneath the car on the driver's side. So, I'm thinking it's coming from my trans? Now that I think about it, it kinda just sounds like gear noise. So, maybe it's just gear noise vibrating between the concrete floor and the unibody. You can't hear anything standing up next to the car. I only hear it when lying on the ground. Idk, what are your thoughts?
 
MuuMuu101 said:
I just reset the starter and it felt like the teeth were engaged when I installed it. It still had problems with starting up. Usually, I'd have to give the car quite a bit of gas before it would engage and start. Today was the opposite. Giving gas first did nothing but free-spin. I actually turned the key without putting my foot on the pedal and barely gave it a little gas before the car started up. So, now I feel more confident it is a starter issue. I was just thinking about getting this starter from Autozone: https://www.autozone.com/batteries-...100936_0?fromString=search&make=&model=&year=

I let the car idle, and it seemed to idle fine. I let it idle for about 15 mins and let it get up to temp. I couldn't really hear the extra noise from the engine compartment, only from underneath the car on the driver's side. So, I'm thinking it's coming from my trans? Now that I think about it, it kinda just sounds like gear noise. So, maybe it's just gear noise vibrating between the concrete floor and the unibody. You can't hear anything standing up next to the car. I only hear it when lying on the ground. Idk, what are your thoughts?
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I think at this point changing the starter is the way to go. If you can get that one locally that's not terrible, you can usually get them online for less but then you'd have to wait for it to ship.

If the noise sounds like gears and is coming from under the drivers side it could be starter related too.
 
72bluNblu said:
I think at this point changing the starter is the way to go. If you can get that one locally that's not terrible, you can usually get them online for less but then you'd have to wait for it to ship.

If the noise sounds like gears and is coming from under the drivers side it could be starter related too.
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I can get that one on next day deliver or pick it up at my local Autozone.
 
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