abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
so it isn't exactly like the service manual then.. interesting.
my PST Strud rod Bushing Fell off the car! *PICS*
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so it isn't exactly like the service manual then.. interesting.
Dfr360cuda
Diagnosis... Plum Crazy.
I'm thinking this is a question for someone in engineering, not James from PST Marketing
Just sayin
:burnout:
Just sayin
:burnout:
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
probably right. but he says "WE" which i take as PST. but now the directions are posted and it says differently.
again... no wonder there is so much confusion over these things..lol
again... no wonder there is so much confusion over these things..lol
I do not appreciate your comment as you do not know my background to begin with. I do, do the marketing for PST but prior coming to PST I had work extensively in the restoration and automotive industry for years on many different makes and models of cars. From Mopars to Dual Ghias to Ford, GM and Packards. I will agree that there is confusion and it seems that no one at this point is a 100% certain on the orientation(hence 4 pg thread). I will say that I would follow the factory service manual if you are using the standard OEM rubber replacement bushings. But I will say that it may different for the Polygraphite and I am looking into that now. As for the instructions that you were sent I am questioning them myself and have requested a sample from my warehouse for me to review.
Thanks
James
Thanks
James
I do not appreciate your comment as you do not know my background to begin with. I do, do the marketing for PST but prior coming to PST I had work extensively in the restoration and automotive industry for years on many different makes and models of cars. From Mopars to Dual Ghias to Ford, GM and Packards. I will agree that there is confusion and it seems that no one at this point is a 100% certain on the orientation(hence 4 pg thread). I will say that I would follow the factory service manual if you are using the standard OEM rubber replacement bushings. But I will say that it may different for the Polygraphite and I am looking into that now. As for the instructions that you were sent I am questioning them myself and have requested a sample from my warehouse for me to review.
Thanks
James
daredevil
Well-Known Member
Looking forward to this answer.
Dfr360cuda
Diagnosis... Plum Crazy.
James... You're right, I don't know your qualifications.
What I do expect is you know your product
I have about $500 invested in front end parts including the PST rebuild kit
I'm a shade tree mechanic like most on FABO
Common sense would say cup in
:burnout:
What I do expect is you know your product
I have about $500 invested in front end parts including the PST rebuild kit
I'm a shade tree mechanic like most on FABO
Common sense would say cup in
:burnout:
I will agree with you to a point on the product line. I do my very best to answer any all questions that come our way. But I am not perfect and I may not know every proper orientation of each washer off the top of my head. I am not trying to make excuse but I do this forum work for PST on all of the various Mopar, GM and Ford forums and from time to time I do make mistakes(we are all human) as we have an extensive product line for each manufacturer of car. So at this point I am taking the time to re-examine our polygraphite kit and the instructions that you were sent. As for the our rubber strut rod bushings "cupped in"
Thanks
James
norshorblufish
By the Big Water
Am I viewing the picture right.
The end in the picture is facing the front of the car.
View attachment PSTStrutRodBushing01.jpg
View attachment PSTStrutRodBushing02.jpg
If so then according to PST's instructions that were posted the washer was put on wrong. Note: the cup of the washer is facing the bushing at the end facing the front of the car in the instruction and away from it at the back.
View attachment pst.jpg
But this could be the difference in using the rubber or poly bushing.
The end in the picture is facing the front of the car.
View attachment PSTStrutRodBushing01.jpg
View attachment PSTStrutRodBushing02.jpg
If so then according to PST's instructions that were posted the washer was put on wrong. Note: the cup of the washer is facing the bushing at the end facing the front of the car in the instruction and away from it at the back.
View attachment pst.jpg
But this could be the difference in using the rubber or poly bushing.
TrailBeast
AKA Mopars4us on Youtube
Just put it together with the cups facing the bushing and you'll never have that happen again.
Think about this.
Most people stiffen the front suspension which causes it to have less travel anyway, so the travel of the strut rods is even more minimal than stock.
With the cup facing out on the front side every time you get on the brakes it tries to spread that bushing.
(not to mention causing other bushings to be stressed because of that moving)
Of all the oppinions and different books saying different things, I prefer that it NOT try to spread the bushing when loaded.
BTW, I have PST red poly 3 peice bushings (with metal sleeve) with the cup facing the bushing halves on both sides and never a problem one with them.
Think about this.
Most people stiffen the front suspension which causes it to have less travel anyway, so the travel of the strut rods is even more minimal than stock.
With the cup facing out on the front side every time you get on the brakes it tries to spread that bushing.
(not to mention causing other bushings to be stressed because of that moving)
Of all the oppinions and different books saying different things, I prefer that it NOT try to spread the bushing when loaded.
BTW, I have PST red poly 3 peice bushings (with metal sleeve) with the cup facing the bushing halves on both sides and never a problem one with them.
Ok I have looked into this and the issue is that there was a mistake made by our warehouse pickers. The wrong instructions were sent out for the bushings that we supply. The bushings are to be installed with the cupped portion of the washers facing in. I am working with my warehouse to correct this issue as we speak.
Thanks
James
Thanks
James
shanker
Well-Known Member
damn....how old is this thread to get re-hashed?....
the thing I learned from my experience...is that whenever I buy any car part from anywhere for anything in the fleet...I put them in a unique folder per vehicle, in chronological order....
I took it for granted being that I used to work in IT, that everything was stored pretty much forever in digital form....which is true for most scenarios, but not all...
would I buy a PST front end rebuild kit again? why yes I would, and I have..and the invoice is in a folder for that vehicle in a drawer in my toolbox dedicated just for them.
the thing I learned from my experience...is that whenever I buy any car part from anywhere for anything in the fleet...I put them in a unique folder per vehicle, in chronological order....
I took it for granted being that I used to work in IT, that everything was stored pretty much forever in digital form....which is true for most scenarios, but not all...
would I buy a PST front end rebuild kit again? why yes I would, and I have..and the invoice is in a folder for that vehicle in a drawer in my toolbox dedicated just for them.
pishta
I know I'm right....
James, what do you suppose that instruction sheet is for? Maybe the rubber in the "Original Performance Standard Front End Kit"? I didnt see rubber in any other kit.
philllyc
First time restoration guy
Oh well I guess it's time to Flip the cup over to Cup in..
What about the inside washer?(in the k member)
And not to mention the rubber kit I bought had no sleeves.
PST Good company!. But the $379 kit at the very least should have an updated photo copy of the instructions. Things like left hand thread are the inners or outers. James..you know I'm right..
What about the inside washer?(in the k member)
And not to mention the rubber kit I bought had no sleeves.
PST Good company!. But the $379 kit at the very least should have an updated photo copy of the instructions. Things like left hand thread are the inners or outers. James..you know I'm right..
I have been working on these cars since the 70's and installed many of your kits for customers. The poly strut rods bushings always came back with chunks gone. They are junk and I would never buy poly bushings again.
Also I have a question for you what holds the lower control arm from moving front to back with the poly bushing on the pin with lube on it? The torsion bar clip? The strut didn't LOL .
Usually when the factory lower bushing tears off the inner sleeve they need to be replaced or the car wonders. The poly bushings are off the sleeve when installed and then you lube them yet
the proper installation procedure for the factory style bushings are tighten them with the control arm in its operating position (Ride height) or 1.5 inches off he bump stop. This lets them travel both ways the same distance without movement on the sleeve. Critical for holding the control arm in place
Here is one of your kits installed. Your factory kits are fine your poly kits are not.
The parts couldn't handle 600 miles 1/4 mile at a time on this car.
These parts are not bent this is how far the parts left it move back. Probably originally failed foot braking it at the track . Ray Barton warned me I didn't listen. Watch the left front.
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Can you please tell me what failed ? Your post does not explain the problem that you are having? Also your picture does not show the suspension or tell me what is going on? A worn or blown out strut rod bushing will not stuff a wheel into the fender like that?
As for the lower control arm bushing whether is be poly or rubber it is not responsible for holding the lower control arm in place. That is the job of the strut rod, a very similar design was used by Ford in their compact/ midsize of the 1960's like the Falcon, Fairlane and the mustang as they used a single lower bushing. Without the strut rod the control arm would deflect back and forth. The job of the control arm bushing is exactly that its a bushing.It provides an interface between two parts, damping the energy being transmitted through.
In the case of a poly bushings they not vulcanize to the innner and outer shell so yes they rotates freely through its range of motion allowing for faster weight transfer thus better handling. But I must reiterate the job of the lower control bushing is not to hold the control arm in place. We have sold numerous poly kits over the years and have continued to do so. Many of our competitors have as well like Firm feel. Mancini, Hotchkis and Summit. Plus the numerous customers on this site that have, if you do a search.
Please feel free to pm me with your order details and I will be happy to work with you on any issues that you may have with our product.
Thanks
James From
PST Marketing
As for the lower control arm bushing whether is be poly or rubber it is not responsible for holding the lower control arm in place. That is the job of the strut rod, a very similar design was used by Ford in their compact/ midsize of the 1960's like the Falcon, Fairlane and the mustang as they used a single lower bushing. Without the strut rod the control arm would deflect back and forth. The job of the control arm bushing is exactly that its a bushing.It provides an interface between two parts, damping the energy being transmitted through.
In the case of a poly bushings they not vulcanize to the innner and outer shell so yes they rotates freely through its range of motion allowing for faster weight transfer thus better handling. But I must reiterate the job of the lower control bushing is not to hold the control arm in place. We have sold numerous poly kits over the years and have continued to do so. Many of our competitors have as well like Firm feel. Mancini, Hotchkis and Summit. Plus the numerous customers on this site that have, if you do a search.
Please feel free to pm me with your order details and I will be happy to work with you on any issues that you may have with our product.
Thanks
James From
PST Marketing
hotrod360andy
Well-Known Member
Blasting them online just wastes more of your time. Just move on already..
Upper Cam Bolt Kit.
This is what Failed. This was after the red strut rod bushing came out in pieces while foot braking the car. I saw with my own eyes red pieces come out from under the car. And the cups out as per instructions. LOL. I took the car home and put a set in from Napa.
Soon after, The upper bolt failed. The car was towed and then the insurance company found the bolt laying in the rail. I thought the alignment shop ruined the bolt. Until I took the rest of them off. How weak do you think the bolts are with two flats instead of one.
I am not here to argue with you I really could care less if you check your quality or not. I am not asking for anything nor do I care to
I had this car since the 70's an have rebuilt fronts for a while now. This was the first and will be the last kit I will ever install. Factory style bolts and rubber bushings are the only things installed here. Could you imagine if this was someone else's car I installed these parts on?
The bolts I bought were defective and poly bushings being sold for these cars are not strong enough.
A Good test is put both a red poly bushing and then a rubber bushing in a vice One at a time. Watch how the red bushing splits apart in pieces.
(a very similar design was used by Ford in their compact/ midsize of the 1960's like the Falcon, Fairlane and the mustang as they used a single lower bushing. )
Not even close so you don't know.
(Please feel free to pm me with your order details and I will be happy to work with you on any issues that you may have with our product.)
Do you think I would get anywhere with you working with me.You wouldn't even send the guy a set of $20 bushings. Let me tell you Richard. This is not a picture of my buddies car as you accused the poster.
No matter what you would ever do or say I would never use one of these kits in my shop again. Like I said I should have listened to Ray Barton.
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First off none of our polygraphite bushings that we sell are red. The compound that we make is only available in black. We have never offered red. So did you get the bushings from us or possibly any of the parts that you are questioning? I appreciate photos, but again your photos are not of a product in question as I asked. Nothing can be determined from the photos that you supplied. I would appreciate it if you would please provide your full information so I can look up and verify what you purchase from us. If you can't pm your information than I guess we can't move forward. And yes the Ford's do use a similar design in the respect that they uses a single lower control arm bushing and the job of keeping the lower control located is that of the strut rod and not the bushing as you stated in either suspension designs. That was merely an example of a similar design.
Secondly where did this cam bolt issue come from? Your post from Thursday made no mention of it. Do you have photos or the parts still?
Also who is Richard? There seems to be a lot of confusion here. Im starting to question is the product you had a problem with was even ours.
Thanks
James From
PST Marketing
Secondly where did this cam bolt issue come from? Your post from Thursday made no mention of it. Do you have photos or the parts still?
Also who is Richard? There seems to be a lot of confusion here. Im starting to question is the product you had a problem with was even ours.
Thanks
James From
PST Marketing
pishta
I know I'm right....
The bolts and standard suspension kit came from PST. The poly bushings came from HES. I did not ask to be compensated in any way. Just want to inform members of the issues I have experienced first hand with poly parts. I have had similar issues with My pan hard bar bushings in my truck Black red it doesn't matter.
Since around 30 k on my 05 Ram I was fighting the death wobble. One of the things I did was install poly pan hard bushings. One good forearm shake from the death wobble and they were reduced to pieces. Re- installed rubber and they are still in the truck after several more elbow breakers . They took the shake and are still there. I have two 05's so I purchased two sets. The second set are still here in the box.
We also raced ATV's for at least 10 years. The poly A-arm bushings being sold with the cheaper A-arms were always turning to pieces.
The material does not take friction or compression without fatigue. Just a know fact That I have seen over the years. Stiffer? Yes. Looks cool and easy to use? Yes. The reason they give you lube to coat them is friction and compression tears them apart.
If you are using them on a race car they do keep everything tighter while they are there. Race cars don't see road dirt and weather. What you need to ask yourself when buying a kit is . What is more important stiff/Stability or endurance.
I Never had any problems with your hard parts. Except the Bolts. I was warned . But they were new and they were on a car that is mostly a race car trailer queen.They were handy & clean so I used them .I did not Tighten them. The front end alignment tech did. He has done mopars for years. But after some thought and looking at the bolt design with two flats instead of one . I won't use them. They may work if the Material was consistent.
I have a drawer full of used OEM bolts. Not one of them is stretched at the base of the thread. If you want a picture you will have to contact Nation Wide Ins. They took the bolt that failed. They didn't ask anything. So I didn't say anything. I Didn't need to drag out the claim. If they cared I am sure I would have heard from them.
I have nothing to gain here . I don't sell suspension parts. I have my opinion and I have every right to express it. Some may agree and some won't. But Your comment on the Falcon A-arm shows your opinion on this subject means nothing anymore. You are selling parts so you are Bias. Falcon Lower bushings are encapsulated by a cross member with a Bolt and a nut. So they can't move.
The strut rod is a pivot. Force rearward on the outside of the control arm and the inside is forced against the face of the bushing. On a "Mopar". Pull front and the arm wants to pull away. What holds it on the pin? The torsion bar & clip that is 1/4 inch away?
I have had totally wasted 30 yr. old OEM bushings and still had to press the pin out.
When I removed my A-arms from the Duster with poly bushings You can grab the pins and pull them out with ease.
Since around 30 k on my 05 Ram I was fighting the death wobble. One of the things I did was install poly pan hard bushings. One good forearm shake from the death wobble and they were reduced to pieces. Re- installed rubber and they are still in the truck after several more elbow breakers . They took the shake and are still there. I have two 05's so I purchased two sets. The second set are still here in the box.
We also raced ATV's for at least 10 years. The poly A-arm bushings being sold with the cheaper A-arms were always turning to pieces.
The material does not take friction or compression without fatigue. Just a know fact That I have seen over the years. Stiffer? Yes. Looks cool and easy to use? Yes. The reason they give you lube to coat them is friction and compression tears them apart.
If you are using them on a race car they do keep everything tighter while they are there. Race cars don't see road dirt and weather. What you need to ask yourself when buying a kit is . What is more important stiff/Stability or endurance.
I Never had any problems with your hard parts. Except the Bolts. I was warned . But they were new and they were on a car that is mostly a race car trailer queen.They were handy & clean so I used them .I did not Tighten them. The front end alignment tech did. He has done mopars for years. But after some thought and looking at the bolt design with two flats instead of one . I won't use them. They may work if the Material was consistent.
I have a drawer full of used OEM bolts. Not one of them is stretched at the base of the thread. If you want a picture you will have to contact Nation Wide Ins. They took the bolt that failed. They didn't ask anything. So I didn't say anything. I Didn't need to drag out the claim. If they cared I am sure I would have heard from them.
I have nothing to gain here . I don't sell suspension parts. I have my opinion and I have every right to express it. Some may agree and some won't. But Your comment on the Falcon A-arm shows your opinion on this subject means nothing anymore. You are selling parts so you are Bias. Falcon Lower bushings are encapsulated by a cross member with a Bolt and a nut. So they can't move.
The strut rod is a pivot. Force rearward on the outside of the control arm and the inside is forced against the face of the bushing. On a "Mopar". Pull front and the arm wants to pull away. What holds it on the pin? The torsion bar & clip that is 1/4 inch away?
I have had totally wasted 30 yr. old OEM bushings and still had to press the pin out.
When I removed my A-arms from the Duster with poly bushings You can grab the pins and pull them out with ease.
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I just looked at the picture above. What a joke! . Where is the metal ring in the bushing that holds the male bushing centered in the K-member hole. The K-member would Eat that thing up in a heart beat. How did I miss that?
News flash. The guy at PST was right. He's not the idiot, either.
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