New Small Block Headers

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Dan the man said:
I think that you misunderstood what I'm saying, I'm talking about headers for a cruiser, every day driver. I've done a lot of research and talking to people and they all pretty much say the same thing that the smaller tube of are better for scavenging the cylinders and the ceramic coating keeps the heat in the combustion chamber. Have I been miss lead on this?
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people don’t put headers on a cruiser, they put headers on a engine that’s been messed with.

Pulse aka cam timing, tube Lengths, size, and collector merge has more affect than scavenging…. Tell me how zoomie or top fuel headers scavenge… Exhaust is the by product of sucking in air in your lungs and then blow hard… how’s the garden hose scavenging the air from sucking on it and blowing?

My cooling system is so good, I have problems getting the car over 190. So yeah, the coating make no difference, header wrap may, but I’m not wrapping my newer headers…

So yeah most of what you’ve heard in poop….
 
Scody21 said:
people don’t put headers on a cruiser, they put headers on a engine that’s been messed with.

Pulse aka cam timing, tube Lengths, size, and collector merge has more affect than scavenging…. Tell me how zoomie or top fuel headers scavenge… Exhaust is the by product of sucking in air in your lungs and then blow hard… how’s the garden hose scavenging the air from sucking on it and blowing?

My cooling system is so good, I have problems getting the car over 190. So yeah, the coating make no difference, header wrap may, but I’m not wrapping my newer headers…

So yeah most of what you’ve heard in poop….
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A header of what you said makes sense. Do you think that putting headers on a 300-325 horsepower cruiser is a waste of money and time?
 
Scody21 said:
people don’t put headers on a cruiser, they put headers on a engine that’s been messed with.

Pulse aka cam timing, tube Lengths, size, and collector merge has more affect than scavenging…. Tell me how zoomie or top fuel headers scavenge… Exhaust is the by product of sucking in air in your lungs and then blow hard… how’s the garden hose scavenging the air from sucking on it and blowing?

My cooling system is so good, I have problems getting the car over 190. So yeah, the coating make no difference, header wrap may, but I’m not wrapping my newer headers…

So yeah most of what you’ve heard in poop….
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Scavenging was only mentioned on engines at 350 cubic inch or less and at a maximum power of 400 horsepower. I don't want to name the header manufacturer but they showed were the smaller tube scavenge the cylinders better than the 1 5/8", although the 1 5/8" is still a good size. You simply can't compare a top fuel engine to a daily driver as you have as they are as different as night and day. I think that you guys on here are so much into high rpm high powered engines
 
Scody21 said:
people don’t put headers on a cruiser, they put headers on a engine that’s been messed with.

Pulse aka cam timing, tube Lengths, size, and collector merge has more affect than scavenging…. Tell me how zoomie or top fuel headers scavenge… Exhaust is the by product of sucking in air in your lungs and then blow hard… how’s the garden hose scavenging the air from sucking on it and blowing?

My cooling system is so good, I have problems getting the car over 190. So yeah, the coating make no difference, header wrap may, but I’m not wrapping my newer headers…

So yeah most of what you’ve heard in poop….
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I understand what you're saying and I'm going to focus more on the cam timing as you mentioned
 
Dan the man said:
Scavenging was only mentioned on engines at 350 cubic inch or less and at a maximum power of 400 horsepower. I don't want to name the header manufacturer but they showed were the smaller tube scavenge the cylinders better than the 1 5/8", although the 1 5/8" is still a good size. You simply can't compare a top fuel engine to a daily driver as you have as they are as different as night and day. I think that you guys on here are so much into high rpm high powered engines
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Power depends on the build and intended use of the car. Along with selecting the correct cam for use. I’m about lower rpm, so I can pull hard out of the turns with a 4 speed. I’m going to be at Laguna in a few weeks and am going to talk to and talk more photos of the transam cars. My brother knows a few of the guys the build and prep them for the vintage races… I’ll take photos of the headers also….
 
IMHO, header tube size and design are combo dependent, just like cams, intake or gears. Buy the headers that will work with your combo, be it a cruiser or a full blown drag car.

Something I haven't seen mentioned (I may have missed it) about ceramic coating is the fact that it cuts under hood temperatures, in the hot summer it can mean the difference between having vapor lock and percolation problems or not. Several positives to having ceramic coated headers.
 
Scody21 said:
people don’t put headers on a cruiser, they put headers on a engine that’s been messed with.
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They'll put headers on anything if they think it makes the engine look more "Racy"..
1. Chrome air cleaner
2. Headers..
 
Dan the man said:
Have I been miss lead on this?
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Not entirely. In very general terms the concept of scavenging works like that. Ditto for the concept of ceramic coating. So obviously now that's not why I found your post so funny. The humour was in the contradictions of what you asserted. The irony was furthered with this follow up!
Dan the man said:
Guess you haven't done much research on header tube diameter and length
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So now the question I have to ask is whether I should spend any time and effort writing more. I post mostly when I think I can provide some guidance. Its a lot of work and the only reward is seeing someone grow and learn. Maybe the best thing here is if your really interested you can do a search for stuff I've posted previously on these subjects (headers, ceramic, etc) and follow the links. In doing so at some point you will probably discover the things that I thought were funny about your post below.
Dan the man said:
A header that has equal length tubes, smooth bends ( not dented up ) and are the correct diameter, will flow the exhaust gases just as well as a 1,900 set. You don't need adjustable collector's on a cruiser and that's what I was talking about. For a mild built small block 1 1/2" primary tube headers with a ceramic coating is a good choice, the smaller diameter tube headers will scavenge the combustion chamber not only faster more complete and that keeps from contaminating the next air / fuel mixture.
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In Australia our A bodies use the US floorpan with offset driveline to our R/H drive. This makes for a very tight R/H side near the steering box so much t hat we run a remote oil filter set up from the factory as the standard filter placement would go through the steering box. One of our mopar experts decided to develop a high HP header system and experimented with many designs over a few years. In his words he expected 4 into one was the ultimate for power but it is very hard in our limited space. he designed and built a development of our already try why design and it made more power than the 4 into ones. The old ones are 1 5/8 x 1 3/4 x 2 1/2 and the new design is 1 3/4 x 2 x 3 inch.I had the old system on my 410 and made 355 rwhp . the new system made 392 rwhp. A increase of 37 rwhp. I have changed the heads to trick flows from the edelbrocks and now make 425 rwhp.
 
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There is we'll know place around here by the name of Headers by "Ed". Some NHRA veterans have used their headers quite successfully. Ed knows his stuff! I'll put their website here. A lotta of info here by someone who's done it. I'll pull an excerpt out about collector size and how bigger is not always better.
Welcome to the Home Page of HEADERS BY "ED", INC.  May you learn a lot as you go through our website!

For what it's worth: A couple of years later (the Dodge doesn't

get worked on or raced much), the Dodge was put on a chassis

dyno, where in just three hours - nine pulls - engine timing

was advanced and fuel pressure increased with a resulting

gain of 30 HP at peak rpm plus HP gains noted everywhere else!



Two weeks later, at BIR, the best times recorded over two days were:

ET - 13.28 seconds; MPH - 100.6; 60' - 1.79 seconds!



.4 seconds off the ETs, several runs now over 100 MPH,
and a .06 reduction in the car's 60' time!) The Dodge lifts
the left tire off the track on almost every run now and even
lifted BOTH tires off track on two runs that weekend!
(First time was announced over the track's PA system!)
The "Venturi" extensions were run on Saturday (1 7/8" ID/2" OD
at the narrowest location) and 2 1/8" OD (yes, 2 1/8" OD)
tapered extensions were bolted on Sunday morning to
see what might happen. Later on that same day,
the 2 1/8" extensions were replaced by 2 1/4" extensions
and the car SLOWED DOWN!

Guys have told me (remember that I'm a "HEADER GUY")
that the collector extensions are WAY TOO SMALL
- i.e. bigger would make the car faster - yet I've tried SIX
different sizes on the headers - up through 3" - with the
best MPH measured so far using 2 1/8" tapered extensions
bolted on to the end of the headers' 3" outlet collectors.
If the collector extensions are too small (what "they" tell me),
and are, therefore (according to them), restricting
the engine, why is the Dodge doing what it is doing?
It is interesting to see how "they" deal with the FACTS of
the situation when confronted by what has actually been done:


Over time, by using various bolt-on tapered collector extensions
I have progressively reduced the effective collector outlet diameter considerably. Each diameter reduction resulted in a better
performing car. Dyno tuning provided a big gain (establishing
how BAD the engine was tuned from the factory).
2 1/8" extensions have produced the BEST TIMES seen so far.
Later on (same day), the TOO SMALL (according to "them)
2 1/8" extensions were replaced by larger 2 1/4" extensions
and the car SLOWED DOWN - PROVING that 2 1/8"
did NOT restrict the engine and, simultaneously,
PROVING that "they" did NOT know
what "they" were talking about! !

To hopefully quote Einstein correctly:
"It's better to have people think you're stupid then
to open your mouth and remove all doubt".
 
James Clews said:
In Australia our A bodies use the US floorpan with offset driveline to our R/H drive. This makes for a very tight R/H side near the steering box so much t hat we run a remote oil filter set up from the factory as the standard filter placement would go through the steering box. One of our mopar experts decided to develop a high HP header system and experimented with many designs over a few years. In his words he expected 4 into one was the ultimate for power but it is very hard in our limited space. he designed and built a development of our already try why design and it made more power than the 4 into ones. The old ones are 1 5/8 x 1 3/4 x 2 1/2 and the new design is 1 3/4 x 2 x 3 inch.I had the old system on my 410 and made 355 rwhp . the new system made 392 rwhp. A increase of 37 rwhp. I have changed the heads to trick flows from the edelbrocks and now make 425 rwhp.
Click to expand...

Pics please.....
 
Mattax said:
Not entirely. In very general terms the concept of scavenging works like that. Ditto for the concept of ceramic coating. So obviously now that's not why I found your post so funny. The humour was in the contradictions of what you asserted. The irony was furthered with this follow up!

So now the question I have to ask is whether I should spend any time and effort writing more. I post mostly when I think I can provide some guidance. Its a lot of work and the only reward is seeing someone grow and learn. Maybe the best thing here is if your really interested you can do a search for stuff I've posted previously on these subjects (headers, ceramic, etc) and follow the links. In doing so at some point you will probably discover the things that I thought were funny about your post below.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your help on this. There's a lot more to headers than I ever imagined. I'm thinking about using the factory manifolds for now since the cam is close to a 340 grind.
 
Wow this is an interesting thread to say the least. Unfortunately, I’d like to somewhat revive it because I’m having some issues myself. Not meaning to threadjack here, but this whole thread has been all over the place, so I’d like to see if I could get any insight. With that in mind, I have a 73 dart sport, with a 1971 360. It’s a hoopty I pulled from a junkyard for dirt cheap and just want to make it a good sounding cruiser.

I was looking for a “cheap” pair of headers, and another FABO member had a set of hedman headers(I can get pics later) for very cheap. So I bought them. I’m not in search of power gains or really anything like that. Just some headers that will look good and sound good with minimal instillation hastle.

I have power steering, and the Interesting thing is that online, the headers I have, are claimed to fit with power steering. They may need some custom touches but they should in theory fit. Another “off the shelf cheap header” I found, is identical in configuration to mine, but online it states they will not work with power steering. So unless they actually are two differently made “cheap headers”, I’m unsure why different brands claim different things.

On another note, I will try to install them tomorrow. The pitman arm is disconnected, and I have the old gigantic starter out. ( going to install mini starter). Also have the brake booster and master cylinder out for extra room. I am hoping they can fit like they claim online. With the car at least a foot off the ground, and possibly jacking one side of the motor up, maybe they will work.

I love power brakes and power steering, but wow it gets cramped in the bay.

Any ideas for what I should do if they don’t fit? Would rather not use factory manifolds, and don’t want to hack the inner fender.

Thanks.
 
ratty dart 340 said:
Wow this is an interesting thread to say the least. Unfortunately, I’d like to somewhat revive it because I’m having some issues myself. Not meaning to threadjack here, but this whole thread has been all over the place, so I’d like to see if I could get any insight. With that in mind, I have a 73 dart sport, with a 1971 360. It’s a hoopty I pulled from a junkyard for dirt cheap and just want to make it a good sounding cruiser.

I was looking for a “cheap” pair of headers, and another FABO member had a set of hedman headers(I can get pics later) for very cheap. So I bought them. I’m not in search of power gains or really anything like that. Just some headers that will look good and sound good with minimal instillation hastle.

I have power steering, and the Interesting thing is that online, the headers I have, are claimed to fit with power steering. They may need some custom touches but they should in theory fit. Another “off the shelf cheap header” I found, is identical in configuration to mine, but online it states they will not work with power steering. So unless they actually are two differently made “cheap headers”, I’m unsure why different brands claim different things.

On another note, I will try to install them tomorrow. The pitman arm is disconnected, and I have the old gigantic starter out. ( going to install mini starter). Also have the brake booster and master cylinder out for extra room. I am hoping they can fit like they claim online. With the car at least a foot off the ground, and possibly jacking one side of the motor up, maybe they will work.

I love power brakes and power steering, but wow it gets cramped in the bay.

Any ideas for what I should do if they don’t fit? Would rather not use factory manifolds, and don’t want to hack the inner fender.

Thanks.
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Forgot to mention that the guy I bought these local from, claimed they fit on a 73 duster with power steering also. This could be false, and every car is slightly different but power steering and a header seems to be a tall order.
 
Wish it was spring already. I am gonna have a nice set of coated Doug’s D453 headers coming off my 69 Dart for sale.
will make somebody a nice setup, but not taking them off till probably April maybe a hair earlier depending on weather
 
ratty dart 340 said:
Wow this is an interesting thread to say the least. Unfortunately, I’d like to somewhat revive it because I’m having some issues myself. Not meaning to threadjack here, but this whole thread has been all over the place, so I’d like to see if I could get any insight. With that in mind, I have a 73 dart sport, with a 1971 360. It’s a hoopty I pulled from a junkyard for dirt cheap and just want to make it a good sounding cruiser.

I was looking for a “cheap” pair of headers, and another FABO member had a set of hedman headers(I can get pics later) for very cheap. So I bought them. I’m not in search of power gains or really anything like that. Just some headers that will look good and sound good with minimal instillation hastle.

I have power steering, and the Interesting thing is that online, the headers I have, are claimed to fit with power steering. They may need some custom touches but they should in theory fit. Another “off the shelf cheap header” I found, is identical in configuration to mine, but online it states they will not work with power steering. So unless they actually are two differently made “cheap headers”, I’m unsure why different brands claim different things.

On another note, I will try to install them tomorrow. The pitman arm is disconnected, and I have the old gigantic starter out. ( going to install mini starter). Also have the brake booster and master cylinder out for extra room. I am hoping they can fit like they claim online. With the car at least a foot off the ground, and possibly jacking one side of the motor up, maybe they will work.

I love power brakes and power steering, but wow it gets cramped in the bay.

Any ideas for what I should do if they don’t fit? Would rather not use factory manifolds, and don’t want to hack the inner fender.

Thanks.
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There’s nothing a BFH (Big Freakin Hammer) can’t fix.
Dent the header if need be to make room.
I used Hedman & Summit headers without any clearance issues.
A set of Hookers needed a minor dent. (No longer in biz?) Blackjack headers were the worst. A real horrible experience.

If the headers are the “Cheap” ones that have 3 out of 4 tubes going under the steering linkage on the drivers side, they’re the worst to install. Best have the car up as high as possible and what you said, is not enough.

FWIW, Summit Racing & Jegs have their own branded names exhaust (made by Heartthrob) for the A body cars and it fits nicely. I’ve used them both. They can, if you want, include mufflers that are capable of 400+ HP handling.

The instructions saying designed to fit Hooker headers but they will fit other brands easy. Minor trimming of the pipes length is needed for a great fit. A chop saw is a great tool for this. Even without the chop saw, there fit is pretty good.
 
Maybe I should replace my "junk" TTIs with some of those stainless headers? I have manual steering too....
 
Aaaand here we go again, new product comes along, gets bashed because the old stuff is so much better.

Then the community complains about the lack of new products for our cars…

Jus sayin
 
Heywodja said:
Aaaand here we go again, new product comes along, gets bashed because the old stuff is so much better.

Then the community complains about the lack of new products for our cars…

Jus sayin
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Maaaan I’m just curious if any headers fit power steering cars
 
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