Brian Hafliger
Well-Known Member
Looking forward to the dyno test!!
Out with the 340 & in with the 410 stroker!
- Thread starter 1wild&crazyguy
- Start date
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Looking forward to the dyno test!!
1wild&crazyguy
Banned
Me too!!:cheers:
1wild&crazyguy
Banned
Ok, done with the porting, they all do about the same 280cfm now by .550
Gaskets showed up, I went with mopar head gaskets...I'm sure they are just perma torques, though I havent opened the box yet.
I will now be mic'n the gasket thickness and clay checking quench distances.
I bought a couple new spiral locks so that I can pull 2 piston/rod assemblies back out and clearance the inside of the pin boss to get more clearance between it and the small end of the rod.
I'm contemplating a re balance, but we'll see.
I am also contemplating a HV pump with the use of these full grooves, but might not since I'm running the the rods @ about .0017 and .010 side clearance. 'roughly remembering'
So the next thing I have to do before buttoning the whole deal up is also porting the intake manifold-plenum & port match to get the numbers to hang in the 260's or better if possible.
some arent so good flowing in at 230's attached to head.
But its as cast intake, so what do you expect
I plan on using a 750 to get some real numbers.lol
...though of corse I'll do the 'what if bit' and try the 1000cfm carb and race headers..
I cant wait
Gaskets showed up, I went with mopar head gaskets...I'm sure they are just perma torques, though I havent opened the box yet.
I will now be mic'n the gasket thickness and clay checking quench distances.
I bought a couple new spiral locks so that I can pull 2 piston/rod assemblies back out and clearance the inside of the pin boss to get more clearance between it and the small end of the rod.
I'm contemplating a re balance, but we'll see.
I am also contemplating a HV pump with the use of these full grooves, but might not since I'm running the the rods @ about .0017 and .010 side clearance. 'roughly remembering'
So the next thing I have to do before buttoning the whole deal up is also porting the intake manifold-plenum & port match to get the numbers to hang in the 260's or better if possible.
some arent so good flowing in at 230's attached to head.
But its as cast intake, so what do you expect
I plan on using a 750 to get some real numbers.lol
...though of corse I'll do the 'what if bit' and try the 1000cfm carb and race headers..
I cant wait
Brian Hafliger
Well-Known Member
You should pick up the ports with the intake on, about 10-15 cfm with plenum porting and port matching...Fun stuff!
onig
I love driving my BBD
"I think I might start with a stock set and another thread with step by step pics and number reports...but for now, since these are going on the 410, this thread will work."
That would be awesome, can't wait for that thread.
onig
That would be awesome, can't wait for that thread.
onig
1wild&crazyguy
Banned
So I checked the 'mopar' gaskets, yeah..they are just 8553PT's mic'n in at .050 .........SOOOooo I grabbed the set that I had ''already torqued and run'' and mic'd them....They came in at .045.......SooooooOOOOOOooo...I then checked my P/D clearance and found -.039-.040'ish ''around .040 out of the hole''.., and finally depth checked the chambers to find .030
so the quench distance should be .035'ish
Clay checking is next.
so the quench distance should be .035'ish
Clay checking is next.
1wild&crazyguy
Banned
Once this one is done.:clock:
1wild&crazyguy
Banned
I going for it today.:cheers:
My oil pressure was low, about 10 psi hot at idle, with full groove mains. Quite unnerving, but always came up with the rpm's. That was with the HV pump. Good luck.
1wild&crazyguy
Banned
Thats a massive diff between the 25-30psi @hot idle 'just off the freeway' , with 45'ish psi @ idle maintained if the previous cruising was kept below 50mph/2500rpm no matter how long the drive.
bearing/oil temps.
10 psi is fine, but sucks all at the same time.
I would normally go on about higher psi derived from compression=the oil pump..actually heats the oil, but this is just a clearance/less back pressure 'so to speak' ...but the point is, I wonder/ponder the effects of heat displacement with the main bearings?
will it take longer for the oil-bearing-journal to cool and regain psi it would have under general/low stress/rpm driving?
hmmmm...
fcm42000
Banned
How far did you go on the pushrod punch?
I took the brass sleeve out of the ones I am working on and epoxied in an aluminum dowel pin, I found some w2 rockers on ebay (thanks to tony), mocked them up and gonna have to use a short intake bolt by the intake pushrods, but should work fine. So now the intake port has a straight shot at the bowl, I also took the radius down at the area just above the combustion chamber water jacket (where the bottom of the port meets the bowl at the side without the pinch) evened it out with the head bolt bulge.
What brand valves are you using, stem size? Did you undercut them?
I found a place that will flow the heads for 50 bucks, so I will get you some numbers and pictures then. You got a flow bench, how much, where, pics?
I took the brass sleeve out of the ones I am working on and epoxied in an aluminum dowel pin, I found some w2 rockers on ebay (thanks to tony), mocked them up and gonna have to use a short intake bolt by the intake pushrods, but should work fine. So now the intake port has a straight shot at the bowl, I also took the radius down at the area just above the combustion chamber water jacket (where the bottom of the port meets the bowl at the side without the pinch) evened it out with the head bolt bulge.
What brand valves are you using, stem size? Did you undercut them?
I found a place that will flow the heads for 50 bucks, so I will get you some numbers and pictures then. You got a flow bench, how much, where, pics?
1wild&crazyguy
Banned
The entire push rod wall is too thin to really get straight or straight as an arrow to the bowl.
Engine pro 2.02 intakes w/undercut 11/32 stems
Ferrea 1.60 ex 5000 series.
both +.100 over standard gm length or like .025 over stock mopar length.
Valves were like a $130-16
Still have the push rod holes intact with the exception of a couple of thin spots where I brought it too far back towards the port window while working the push rod/inside turn wall, them 2 will get a tube or just lil epoxy, you can just get the tip of a pick through if that in just this one area on each, the rest tested good=with the the pick jabbing.lol
Really though, these numbers dont need relocation of push rods, it's the wall beyond that can effect the speed, at least in my case that opening/widening it helped slow it down some.
As for the ''bench'' It's a flow performance FP1, it's basically a processor with vac lines going to a custom psi sensing orifice which feed info to a in house computer, to put it crudely.....and it's very accurate and user friendly.
I had these heads tested on a superflow bench 2 yrs ago, when I tested with this FP bench, the numbers were practically identical..with even showing the same characteristics=turbulence @ same lifts/saturations.... Just as the superflow bench showed.
Before every test I check calibration of the FP bench with an O plate thats been tested to show 134.7 or whatever..@ 28'' on a real superflow, so if the bench does not match that at least within the weather/bar psi correction formula...I'll know.
Benches are very sensitive to psi changes even in the room-A/C on...lol
So far this bench has been very very accurate.
It cost me $1200 and change, they build all units per order so that ever bench is a fresh calibrated accurate and NOT mass produced with builder-machine error.
And one guy does all the building.
After woring with these heads and using the becnch to help show where the greatest gains are..I'm confident that I can routinely get 260cfm in lil time, about 20 min a port.
Its the last 20 cfm that gets hard to find meanwhile keeping 190's /240's cfm @ .300/.400, in other words, You could get 290's, but...for me...I dont see being able to keep as good a low lift number.....hmmmm........well now I'm just babbling.lol
We'll see where I go with this in a couple yrs...
Engine pro 2.02 intakes w/undercut 11/32 stems
Ferrea 1.60 ex 5000 series.
both +.100 over standard gm length or like .025 over stock mopar length.
Valves were like a $130-16
Still have the push rod holes intact with the exception of a couple of thin spots where I brought it too far back towards the port window while working the push rod/inside turn wall, them 2 will get a tube or just lil epoxy, you can just get the tip of a pick through if that in just this one area on each, the rest tested good=with the the pick jabbing.lol
Really though, these numbers dont need relocation of push rods, it's the wall beyond that can effect the speed, at least in my case that opening/widening it helped slow it down some.
As for the ''bench'' It's a flow performance FP1, it's basically a processor with vac lines going to a custom psi sensing orifice which feed info to a in house computer, to put it crudely.....and it's very accurate and user friendly.
I had these heads tested on a superflow bench 2 yrs ago, when I tested with this FP bench, the numbers were practically identical..with even showing the same characteristics=turbulence @ same lifts/saturations.... Just as the superflow bench showed.
Before every test I check calibration of the FP bench with an O plate thats been tested to show 134.7 or whatever..@ 28'' on a real superflow, so if the bench does not match that at least within the weather/bar psi correction formula...I'll know.
Benches are very sensitive to psi changes even in the room-A/C on...lol
So far this bench has been very very accurate.
It cost me $1200 and change, they build all units per order so that ever bench is a fresh calibrated accurate and NOT mass produced with builder-machine error.
And one guy does all the building.
After woring with these heads and using the becnch to help show where the greatest gains are..I'm confident that I can routinely get 260cfm in lil time, about 20 min a port.
Its the last 20 cfm that gets hard to find meanwhile keeping 190's /240's cfm @ .300/.400, in other words, You could get 290's, but...for me...I dont see being able to keep as good a low lift number.....hmmmm........well now I'm just babbling.lol
We'll see where I go with this in a couple yrs...
fcm42000
Banned
Then what is the easy way to get to 260, what counts and what doesn't?
I understand you can't get a straight shot without relocating the pushrod hole, I completely filled mine, so I am about a third the way into it. You got a junk or spare set of heads to do this to, to see if it helps? Like I said before, I might be wasting my time, but just want to know, you know? I have only done one of the heads for now, so if the numbers suck big deal, they will get chunked for a set of rhs's, curious to see how it will be with the stock 1.88 valve and the large ports.
I understand you can't get a straight shot without relocating the pushrod hole, I completely filled mine, so I am about a third the way into it. You got a junk or spare set of heads to do this to, to see if it helps? Like I said before, I might be wasting my time, but just want to know, you know? I have only done one of the heads for now, so if the numbers suck big deal, they will get chunked for a set of rhs's, curious to see how it will be with the stock 1.88 valve and the large ports.
1wild&crazyguy
Banned
Work the area above the turn, the guide, bowl, and the ssr up the straight wall.
I took my bench to indio and hung out with Crackedback and Brian at IMM, I tested one of my heads to get a base line in that enviroment 'diff air' and got 273'ish out of a port that flows 277 here by the beach at 564 ft, then brian tested it on his superflow600, it showed 273'ish too.
I want to give a big thanks to Rob for having me and Brian for lending his time.
I am also having brian touch the seats a lil because when I lapped them in...I found the previous shop 'auto power' had chattered the valve job on a couple of seats.
So...Im getting close to the dyno test, he's backed up for 3 weeks, but after that...it's happening.
I will finish this thread with the test, then as of the moment.. I will leave this site and do some traveling...
No sweat. Always welcome.
Was cool to see that flow bench in action. At least mine worked really good to about .400-.430 which is fine for what they will be used on. Might use them on an engine with that dinosaur 284/484 camshaft...
Be cool to see that stroker on the dyno. Should make some pretty good ponies and torque.
Was cool to see that flow bench in action. At least mine worked really good to about .400-.430 which is fine for what they will be used on. Might use them on an engine with that dinosaur 284/484 camshaft...
Be cool to see that stroker on the dyno. Should make some pretty good ponies and torque.
1wild&crazyguy
Banned
Hey rob, did you get that hillarious pm I sent you?
I was rollin on the floor.LOL!!!
The part where I allegedly bashed this guy and that guy...that was just his insurance policy.
I was rollin on the floor.LOL!!!
The part where I allegedly bashed this guy and that guy...that was just his insurance policy.
1wild&crazyguy
Banned
No sweat. Always welcome.
Was cool to see that flow bench in action. At least mine worked really good to about .400-.430 which is fine for what they will be used on. Might use them on an engine with that dinosaur 284/484 camshaft...
Be cool to see that stroker on the dyno. Should make some pretty good ponies and torque.
Back to worthwhile topics..LOL
Yeah those will do good, they seemed to hang on and not lose too much really even at .500 or so, If I remember right.
Next time Ill get a couple days to cruise up, pound some budweiser's and tinker.
1wild&crazyguy
Banned
Ok..... 1 of my ohio roller rockers has some race wear...so I picked up some cheap-O look alikes. 1st..they are not as 'tight' as the ohios in the finish depot, the rollers tips have a lil more pin clearance than the Ohio's and the roller bearing still same app' carries a IKO-146 manufacturer as opposed to INA, which btw is also go's by SCE-146 & with or without the INA as well' ..or last but not least the torrington J-146
http://www.wholesalebearing.com/nrcagetype.html
I believe a bunch of other manuf make these as well.
Here are some pics of the two, ohio 'purple' & u can figure out the rest.
ooh and these had no advertised name brand but I found the add carried the part#pc2311
http://www.wholesalebearing.com/nrcagetype.html
I believe a bunch of other manuf make these as well.
Here are some pics of the two, ohio 'purple' & u can figure out the rest.
ooh and these had no advertised name brand but I found the add carried the part#pc2311
Mad Dart
Nothing to see Here!
Justin, are the new rockers 1-6's also? How much spring pressure do you think they can handle? The Solid Roller in my new motor has the springs set up at 525 Lbs Open at 600 lift. The cam specs are right at 624 lift using 1.6's minus the geometry lift loss so right at 600 net lift.
Also where did you get them at and how much were they? No adjusters come with them right?
Also where did you get them at and how much were they? No adjusters come with them right?
1wild&crazyguy
Banned
Adv rating of 750 psi on the roller/s and 60,000 on the body.
They're 1.5
They come with adjusters, not sure I trust them though, thats based on advice from dan dvorak.
I bought harland sharp adjusters for $90 from mancini racing [already had'em], induction hardened shafts from rocker specialties $110 pair[already had'em] , the rockers themselves were $124.
and hey...if they wear out in few yrs, I just buy another set and reuse the shafts/adjusters
heres a set for sale.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chry...Accessories&hash=item588e4199d8#ht_2269wt_762
and jegs sells them too
http://www.jegs.com/i/Procomp Electronics/746/2311/10002/-1?CT=999
1wild&crazyguy
Banned
FWIW , I measured these and they are a true 1.5 ratio.
Mad Dart
Nothing to see Here!
Do you know how close do they come to the springs?
1wild&crazyguy
Banned
typical 1.4 something max, unless you clearance them.
My experience with these has always been with 1.437 springs, and as long as you dial the tip/spring cup in and run tight side clearance, you're good.
found that out the hard way.
My experience with these has always been with 1.437 springs, and as long as you dial the tip/spring cup in and run tight side clearance, you're good.
found that out the hard way.
1wild&crazyguy
Banned
My header gaskets have shown up 'fel pro Q1413' thats what I use and have even reused before.
Waiting on the intake gaskets, going with felpro QMS90109 , they are a thin bi metal gasket that comes in handy when you heavily milled heads 'comfortably max'd out on the intake face of the head and want to remove as lil possible from the intake to make it fit'...last time I used mcorrmick intake gaskets...both r around .35 thick fwiw
**Found the best deal on felpro MS90109 intake gaskets from autozone 14.99 compared to summits 22.99**
Also waiting for the Herbert solid cam and Morel solid roller lifters I ordered 2 days ago.
See....my engle solid flat has porosity on the no.6 lobe, engle & I both agree it's a casting issue and that they will regrind me another for $60....but that may take an unknown amount of time & new lifter/break in....so I said to hell with it....... nah, really I'll just stick it in my 340 that I intend to yank the heads off & port some more...along with milling...but thats another thread;)
So the new cam should be just a lil more hp than what I had, I still only have about 10.1 compression ....so I couldn't get much bigger really..and the installed height vs more money has me in a pinch when it comes to springs, so......
now I will have .570 253*@.050 288*adv 108*...'solid roller'
With the last cam I had a high 7's dynamic at 165-170psi, the new cam should give around 175-180psi and a low 8.1 dynamic....and static of 10.11111
The roller setup with bronze gear is just about $700, or $625 without springs...which is another thing....this profile allows the use of a 1.437 spring installed at 1.70 or 1.75 @ either 195-165 psi seat and 425lbs or so open psi..
I still have to pick up the heads from brian 'he fixed the seat cut that the other shop fk'd up...twice'
I still need to mock up the intake, but if I remember right...I already did and figured it needed about .090-.100 off each side......., like I said about the heads being milled a lot...
In a nutshell.... Im getting there.
Waiting on the intake gaskets, going with felpro QMS90109 , they are a thin bi metal gasket that comes in handy when you heavily milled heads 'comfortably max'd out on the intake face of the head and want to remove as lil possible from the intake to make it fit'...last time I used mcorrmick intake gaskets...both r around .35 thick fwiw
**Found the best deal on felpro MS90109 intake gaskets from autozone 14.99 compared to summits 22.99**
Also waiting for the Herbert solid cam and Morel solid roller lifters I ordered 2 days ago.
See....my engle solid flat has porosity on the no.6 lobe, engle & I both agree it's a casting issue and that they will regrind me another for $60....but that may take an unknown amount of time & new lifter/break in....so I said to hell with it....... nah, really I'll just stick it in my 340 that I intend to yank the heads off & port some more...along with milling...but thats another thread;)
So the new cam should be just a lil more hp than what I had, I still only have about 10.1 compression ....so I couldn't get much bigger really..and the installed height vs more money has me in a pinch when it comes to springs, so......
now I will have .570 253*@.050 288*adv 108*...'solid roller'
With the last cam I had a high 7's dynamic at 165-170psi, the new cam should give around 175-180psi and a low 8.1 dynamic....and static of 10.11111
The roller setup with bronze gear is just about $700, or $625 without springs...which is another thing....this profile allows the use of a 1.437 spring installed at 1.70 or 1.75 @ either 195-165 psi seat and 425lbs or so open psi..
I still have to pick up the heads from brian 'he fixed the seat cut that the other shop fk'd up...twice'
I still need to mock up the intake, but if I remember right...I already did and figured it needed about .090-.100 off each side......., like I said about the heads being milled a lot...
In a nutshell.... Im getting there.
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