Probably a Dumb 318 Question

[str12-340]

460hp, well maybe not on a typical hot rodder's budget, but can it put out as much as a factory 340? you betcha and it would be a blast to drive, even on pump gas. The 318 has plenty of unrealized potential, they never made a hipo version, but all the 340 tricks still work on it and you don't have to break the bank.

 

[273]

i had the same thought.

in the same vein, i'd bet a smaller solid roller would make that a little better mannered and if you set phasers to stun and not kill it'd probably drive okay on the street... maybe giving up 15~20hp

That 318 was a members engine, he did run it with a bit smaller cam, I think it was B3422w5 and he said it worked great.

 

[missing linc]

Precise computer controlled metering and delivery of fuel under extreme pressure and spark at the optimum moment versus "dumping a bunch of fuel" and hoping it mixes adequately while making it's way through an intake manifold, then past a single valve and into the combustion chamber where the spark will hopefully arrive at the right time based on a static setting and some mechanical advance.

 

[273]

, they never made a hipo version,

Bet ya if they did there would be less flack about building one.

 

[Joey N]

Precise computer controlled metering and delivery of fuel under extreme pressure and spark at the optimum moment versus "dumping a bunch of fuel" and hoping it mixes adequately while making it's way through an intake manifold, then past a single valve and into the combustion chamber where the spark will hopefully arrive at the right time based on a static setting and some mechanical advance.

Wow this really simplified it for me and this hit me and yeah I realize that there is a lot more that goes into it than even what you said thanks for this I also wonder what a 4v LA head would be like haha

 

[Joey N]

Bet ya if they did there would be less flack about building one.

100000%

 

[junkyardhero]

Block-- 318 .30 over (so 323 )
Crank-- Stock CFD crank
Rods-- 340 full floating
Pistons-- Wiseco 1.800 comp height -5cc reliefs
Heads- Speedmaster valve job/ported
Rockers-- want 1.6 or 1.7 (expensive)
Cam-- Herber Roller .500intake .500exhaust 112 LSA 225°/235° @.50 (.530/.530 with 1.6 or .566/.566 w/1.7)
Intake-- Edelbrock Dual plane Air Gap
Carb-- Holley 750
Headers-- Somethin good

Maybe Deck the block down ? mill the heads down?
Let me know what you guys think open to any critiques

you'll want to check the pistons or do the maths before cutting anything. at 1.8 CH you're probably getting close to positive deck and with a small chamber you may rapidly exceed the limits of pump gas if you cut too much off.

that's a whole gang of cam for a 318.

how do you plan on driving the car?

 

[missing linc]

Block-- 318 .30 over (so 323 )
Crank-- Stock CFD crank
Rods-- 340 full floating
Pistons-- Wiseco 1.800 comp height -5cc reliefs
Heads- Speedmaster valve job/ported
Rockers-- want 1.6 or 1.7 (expensive)
Cam-- Herber Roller .500intake .500exhaust 112 LSA 225°/235° @.50 (.530/.530 with 1.6 or .566/.566 w/1.7)
Intake-- Edelbrock Dual plane Air Gap
Carb-- Holley 750
Headers-- Somethin good

Maybe Deck the block down ? mill the heads down?
Let me know what you guys think open to any critiques

I'd be interested to see what that combination would do, your main issue is get good flow in the heads, some increase in compression will be necessary to get to the power level.

 

[Joey N]

I'd be interested to see what that combination would do, your main issue is get good flow in the heads, some increase in compression will be necessary to get to the power level.

I’m going to have them done professionally I know nothing of heads and so they’ll flow nicely as for compression that’s why I was suggesting any milling or decking to bring it tighter

 

[Joey N]

you'll want to check the pistons or do the maths before cutting anything. at 1.8 CH you're probably getting close to positive deck and with a small chamber you may rapidly exceed the limits of pump gas if you cut too much off.

that's a whole gang of cam for a 318.

how do you plan on driving the car?

Hard.

lol just jokin kinda…. It’ll be street only really id like to take it to the strip but we’ll see how and when I’d do that

The pistons will be close to zero deck but I don’t believe they would be I could be wrong. KB has a set of pistons with 1.810 comp height and I don’t believe those positive deck

 

[AJ/FormS]

most people say that there is not much potential in the 318

It's not the lack of potential.
For a streeter;
It's a double-edged sword, involving cubic dollars or cubic inches.
If you are not limited to a certain size engine,
It's just way easier to start with more bore and or more stroke.
The 360 for instance, falls together with off-the-shelf pistons and readily available heads, already at 10.7 Scr, and you can easily use the 2.02 intakes or bigger. and you do not have to rev it very high to get a modest 400hp. and, at that power-level, it will still have a mountain of bottom end torque. That's just 42 cubic inches.
What's all that gonna cost to get, with 318 cubic inches? Yur gonna have to supercharge it to compare, which is, for most of us, Cubic dollars.

And I guess it goes without saying, a streeter is a two gear car at most. Most of the time, yur gonna crack 80mph at the top of second. So all that power is kindof moot.
The chassis is gonna need cubic dollars to take advantage of that. Our typical big-tub A-bodies can't even handle 300.
The smaller tubbed cars are roasting tires at 250.
So then, 460 is just so much bragging rights, until you get the chassis on line.
Finally, 460 hp in a 318, is gonna take a lot of rpm, and that means a lot of camshaft, which calls for a lot of compression ratio. This cam will have so much overlap, that it will barely idle and you can forget fuel economy.
Whereas 460hp in a 360 requires a much much smaller cam, with a lot less overlap. and will thus still have a modest bottom end, that doesn't waste all it's raw fuel out the headers.

And for a car that spends a lot of time cruising, like mine once did, 330hp was a chitload of fun, still overpowered the 295s, or more, and still returned excellent fuel economy. MORE than any 330hp-318 could ever achieve.

If you want that kind of power, (460hp) using a 318LA, you are gonna have to sacrifice the entire bottom end, get at least another gear in the auto-trans, get a high stall, and stick a big gear in the back, and most of all, yur gonna need a way of hooking that to the street.
That's just the way it is.
These are extra sacrifices/extra costs, that more cubic inches might not need. and for a two-gear streeter, IMO, this is as good as insane.
But, I'm staring at it with an empty wallet.
If you own Ft. Knox; have at it.
Or
the smart money is on supercharging it.

These are my opinions

 

[Joey N]

reason I went 318 was that it’s Cool oddball motor because everytime someone asks me what’s in my car they say “340?” “360” “ohh 318? Cool see ya”
Which in return I say “no 225 slant 6”
I then proceed to sit in the drivers seat and cry but it dawned on me that everyone chooses 318 last and it’s also so light weight it’s perfect for an A body and I heard it run before I picked it up for $100 and she sounded healthy real healthy so that’s why I ended up with the 318 and I’m going to just stick with it

 

[rumblefish360]

Yes I do understand that I am more just baffled with how much that engine is putting out with such a small bore and our so called "little junker" 318 usually cant get to those numbers without turbo/supercharger or being stroked

It’s a give and take. Let’s take away the Fords plus sides. No roller cam, 2 valves per cylinder, no FI, no computer, 3 spd auto..

Playing field leveled.

Bet ya if they did there would be less flack about building one.

290 hp Poly 318/dualquads….

 

[junkyardhero]

so let me get this straight: you currently have a /6 and you bought a 318 to install and you're planning on rebuilding it with some performance stuff before installing it?

 

[rumblefish360]

It's not the lack of potential.
For a streeter;
It's a double-edged sword, involving cubic dollars or cubic inches.
If you are not limited to a certain size engine,
It's just way easier to start with more bore and or more stroke.
The 360 for instance, falls together with off-the-shelf pistons and readily available heads, already at 10.7 Scr, and you can easily use the 2.02 intakes or bigger. and you do not have to rev it very high to get a modest 400hp. and, at that power-level, it will still have a mountain of bottom end torque. That's just 42 cubic inches.
What's all that gonna cost to get, with 318 cubic inches? Yur gonna have to supercharge it to compare, which is, for most of us, Cubic dollars.

And I guess it goes without saying, a streeter is a two gear car at most. Most of the time, yur gonna crack 80mph at the top of second. So all that power is kindof moot.
The chassis is gonna need cubic dollars to take advantage of that. Our typical big-tub A-bodies can't even handle 300.
The smaller tubbed cars are roasting tires at 250.
So then, 460 is just so much bragging rights, until you get the chassis on line.
Finally, 460 hp in a 318, is gonna take a lot of rpm, and that means a lot of camshaft, which calls for a lot of compression ratio. This cam will have so much overlap, that it will barely idle and you can forget fuel economy.
Whereas 460hp in a 360 requires a much much smaller cam, with a lot less overlap. and will thus still have a modest bottom end, that doesn't waste all it's raw fuel out the headers.

And for a car that spends a lot of time cruising, like mine once did, 330hp was a chitload of fun, still overpowered the 295s, or more, and still returned excellent fuel economy. MORE than any 330hp-318 could ever achieve.

If you want that kind of power, (460hp) using a 318LA, you are gonna have to sacrifice the entire bottom end, get at least another gear in the auto-trans, get a high stall, and stick a big gear in the back, and most of all, yur gonna need a way of hooking that to the street.
That's just the way it is.
These are extra sacrifices/extra costs, that more cubic inches might not need. and for a two-gear streeter, IMO, this is as good as insane.
But, I'm staring at it with an empty wallet.
If you own Ft. Knox; have at it.
Or
the smart money is on supercharging it.

These are my opinions

And the 318 all time hater has arrived.

While making sense on starting with a bigger engine.
But some of us low life’s have t enough money or resources to go out and do what he suggests. Then there is the challange. He will **** on it as well.

The cubic dollar is only in piston pricing. Everything else is the same.
It’ll take more rpm to achieve the same power.
It doesn’t need to be super charged or the odd to make the power.

He is a lier. Caught again.

 

[rumblefish360]

so let me get this straight: you currently have a /6 and you bought a 318 to install and you're planning on rebuilding it with some performance stuff before installing it?

Full rebuild if I read it right

 

[Joey N]

so let me get this straight: you currently have a /6 and you bought a 318 to install and you're planning on rebuilding it with some performance stuff before installing it?

Correct

Full rebuild if I read it right

and correct
Wasn’t planning on doing any bottom end work but the current pistons will hinder all the other parts I’ve bought no point in that

 

[rumblefish360]

Block-- 318 .30 over (so 323 )

Go to .060 for a 327

Crank-- Stock CFD crank

CFD?

Rods-- 340 full floating

New rods are probably cheaper and certainly stronger

Pistons-- Wiseco 1.800 comp height -5cc reliefs

Might want a dome for compression. Do the math.

Heads- Speedmaster valve job/ported

Weigh the costs and compare vs other heads and certainly one that don’t NEED porting.
Flow is king and key. Not the garbage heads that need a grand plus in work. Start with a better head.

Rockers-- want 1.6 or 1.7 (expensive)

1.7 will cost you unless you use a Magnum head from Edelbrock.
That would be a good and interesting move. Intake limited u less you drill the intake face of the head for LA intakes.

Cam-- Herber Roller .500intake .500exhaust 112 LSA 225°/235° @.50 (.530/.530 with 1.6 or .566/.566 w/1.7)
Intake-- Edelbrock Dual plane Air Gap

ICK! Rethink those cams specs!!!!
(Barfing right now!)

Carb-- Holley 750

Good

Headers-- Somethin good

TTI W/360 size port heads

Maybe Deck the block down ?

Yes, to zero deck the piston. Compression is an issue with little engines.

mill the heads down?

Depends on the piston and head on what to do.
Doing one and certainly both will have your intake also being milled.

Let me know what you guys think open to any critiques

Ouch! Rethink it all.

 

[rumblefish360]

NOT A DOUBLE POST

Block-- 318 .30 over (so 323 )

Go for the bore size. Bigger is better but not for the cubic inches. It’s more so for head breathing. Bigger birds allow the cylinder head to breath better.

Crank-- Stock CFD crank

Keep it.

Rods-- 340 full floating

I’d do aftermarket rods. Lighter, stronger, less windage.

Pistons-- Wiseco 1.800 comp height -5cc reliefs

I myself would look at the domed KB slugs. Ask for a single modification to the thinnest rings available. Total seal rings.
Better sealing, less drag, more hp.

Heads- Speedmaster valve job/ported
Rockers-- want 1.6 or 1.7 (expensive)

Edelbrock heads at a minimum, add in the 1.7 rockers IF that’s is what is needed.

Cam-- Herber Roller .500intake .500exhaust 112 LSA 225°/235° @.50 (.530/.530 with 1.6 or .566/.566 w/1.7)

LSA is garbage. Torque loooooooooo-ser
A 110 LSA W/a 2.02 valve. Or Magnum head.
108 w/a 1.88 (360 valve.)

Intake-- Edelbrock Dual plane Air Gap
Carb-- Holley 750

Good and good

Headers-- Somethin good

TTI -

Maybe Deck the block down ? mill the heads down?
Let me know what you guys think open to any critiques

Gave them in the previous post

 

[junkyardhero]

going in a different direction: have you cast all the other supporting actors in this production? transmission, stall, rear end, brakes, suspension?

because if you're still in the pre-planning stages... there's better money spent elsewhere than **** hot 318 build parts. which, don't get me wrong, i loves me some 318... but no sense in building out a rickey racer when nothing around it works or lets you take advantage of that new found power.

and yeah, that cam is vomitus maximus.

ETA: what's your budget?

 

[rumblefish360]

Ahhhhhh come on! Driving rusty **** boxes at the verge of collapse or explosion is where it’s at.
Brakes? We don’t need no stinking brakes!

 

[273]

I know these are Chev but shows what similarly built engines that make the same ish peak hp what the under the curves differences could be like (the spread between the displacements is similar to 318/340/360). Obviously the 350 be the most streetable. But when comes to straight full out performance stall to shift points with proper stall and gearing the main curves aren't hugely different from one another and for the torque people when you factor stall and gearing they would have similar torque to the ground.

Out of the 3 I like the 327 power curve decent bottom great to top, be nice behind a 4 gear Chevy II

 

[AJ/FormS]

And the 318 all time hater has arrived.

While making sense on starting with a bigger engine.
But some of us low life’s have t enough money or resources to go out and do what he suggests. Then there is the challange. He will **** on it as well.

The cubic dollar is only in piston pricing. Everything else is the same.
It’ll take more rpm to achieve the same power.
It doesn’t need to be super charged or the odd to make the power.

He is a lier. Caught again.

Hyup, go ahead pump 460 into a 727, versus 330 into a 904.
Drive a 4000 stall versus a 3000.
install 4.88s versus 3.55s, then
Drive a tankful of hi test out versus a tankful of 87E10, and see the difference.
There is no comparison.

@Joey N
but as usual King-Rumble rolls out the hate speech.
Now,
I have a 367-4-speed powered 68 Barracuda, streeter, that, by it's trapspeed of 93 in the Eighth, is said to be putting out 433 hp. This was, at one time , my DD. It can willingly idle at 550 rpm, and pull itself in a parade, with a 10.97 starter gear (Commando 4 speed/3.55s), all day if I wanted it to. In overdrive it cruises at 65=2240 rpm.
With
a cam, one size smaller, and geared for 65=1600, with no other changes, except an economy-tuned carb, it made 32 mpg US.
and, with that smaller cam, it still squeeked into the 12s @106 mph, in the quarter, on 245/60-14 street tires, still with those 3.55s, but with a 750 carb.

I have told this story many times here, and the numbers have always been the same, because it happened. IDK what Rumble's problem is, but he spares no expense to ride me at every opportunity. Honestly, he is entitled to his opinion; but judge for yourself how kind are his words.
Since it appears that I have worn out my welcome here, I'm withdrawing to my personal space where everybody loves me. You are welcome to PM me.

 

[rumblefish360]

Hyup, go ahead pump 460 into a 727, versus 330 into a 904.
Drive a 4000 stall versus a 3000.
install 4.88s versus 3.55s, then
Drive a tankful of hi test out versus a tankful of 87E10, and see the difference.
There is no comparison.

I have no idea why you made this list. It’s a pretty crappy comparison eastern the engines if that’s the intent. and yup! Done both of those.

@Joey N
but as usual King-Rumble rolls out the hate speech.

Hypocrite and incorrect.

Now,
I have a 367-4-speed

Oh boy, here we go again for the one millionth time. Here is the quintessential overly stated and written combination that rules them all. Do it his way or be ridiculed!

powered 68 Barracuda, streeter, that, by it's trapspeed of 93 in the Eighth, is said to be putting out 433 hp. This was, at one time , my DD. It can willingly idle at 550 rpm, and pull itself in a parade, with a 10.97 starter gear (Commando 4 speed/3.55s), all day if I wanted it to. In overdrive it cruises at 65=2240 rpm.
With
a cam, one size smaller, and geared for 65=1600, with no other changes, except an economy-tuned carb, it made 32 mpg US.
and, with that smaller cam, it still squeeked into the 12s @106 mph, in the quarter, on 245/60-14 street tires, still with those 3.55s, but with a 750 carb.

I do realize he’s partially full of **** here. Why? Because he’s hiding the truth. He fails to mention his gear vendor is overdrive constantly! I have to bring this to light every time.

This line of bullshit is old and tired, and is constantly called out. It’s amazing how he’s not fully and completely ashamed his head and under a rock through his consistent lies and baiting of unsuspecting rookies. Those unknowing, I don’t see very clearly into the muck, think about it! 30 miles to the gallon on a hot rod. Yep! You have ended overdrive double overdrive right AJ?!

I have told this story many times here,

And most of us wish you shut up about it

and the numbers have always been the same, because it happened. IDK what Rumble's problem is,

Your constant lying and beating and hiding the truth is what my problem is. You leave out pertinent information and write the same scribble over and over. Your glorious engine!

After that, I quite frankly, like you heck of a lot.

but he spares no expense to ride me at every opportunity. Honestly, he is entitled to his opinion; but judge for yourself how kind are his words.

They tell it like it is, straight from the hip straight shooter honest and I pull punches. I’m a foul mouth New Yorker and that’s just the way it is. Suck a dick. At least I don’t lie.

Since it appears that I have worn out my welcome here, I'm withdrawing to my personal space where everybody loves me. You are welcome to PM me.

Oh, we love you here! We just love you a whole lot more if you weren’t a liar. Hide the truth. They were more forthcoming with the facts. Then again, you could always actually help somebody for a change instead of consistently showing your peacock feathers and saying how great you are. How great your motor is. How great your car is. You’re amazing mileage.

Try helping somebody for a change.

 

[junkyardhero]

367... isn't that like just a .030 over 360?