Putting pistons in my 383. Seeing trouble with rod bearing

[fishmens67]

Bearings go in a specific way and so do the rod caps, shouldn't be that big of a deal if you've read a manual on engine assembly.
You have read a manual haven't you?
My old shop teacher always said loudly " READ THY DIRECTION'S" It's been forever burned in my brain for the past 50 years.

 

[Cartel]

Some of your pics it looks like the rod cap is offset as well as the bearings. By chance is the rod cap on correctly? Not 180 degrees out? Or are the caps miss matched to the wrong rod? Not pointing fingers or maybe it’s the angle your holding the camera but it sure looks like it to me

yep. I asked about it here:

resized rods. face has dings

For a stock application, those nicks are not an issue. If this was a full tilt race application, theoretically, a crack could start at one of those nicks and cause a failure. Odds on the Lottery are probably better than that scenario tho. Some machinists as has been commented on here, are...

www.forcbodiesonly.com

It came from the factory like that.

 

[carnuts94]

I can lossen and crack the cap and slide the bearing a bit but it slides right back over when tight.

ok heres the deal. they are supposed to be offset.
look at the step, they beveled that corner the exact same size it sticks out. then look at the corner on the opposite shell. its straight cut.
so that offset is normal or they wouldnt have beveled that corner. I just got off the phone with clevite 77 and theres nothing in the literature he has that says when or why they did that. It just dont make sense like everything else in 2024.

Thats my answer. "its normal" according to how that bearing came from Clevite. They made it that way for a reason.







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I was tought decades ago that the bearing tab is not just for "locating" the bearing, but is an "anti-spin" tab to help keep the bearing from "spinning". Could the reason be that the manufacturer punched the "anti-spin" tab incorrectly on thousands of bearing sets, and decided to bevel the corners and sell them, instead of scrapping all of them.
Also, if memory serves me correctly(which it doesn't always do), aren't the "anti spin" tabs supposed to be on opposing sides of the rod, so that both tabs align with the rotation of the crank, to keep both bearing halves from spinning?

 

[hemifiedbird]

if this is the only rod, did you take a bearing out of one you know is correct and try it in the rod that is Quote, sliding over?

 

[Cartel]

I was tought decades ago that the bearing tab is not just for "locating" the bearing, but is an "anti-spin" tab to help keep the bearing from "spinning". Could the reason be that the manufacturer punched the "anti-spin" tab incorrectly on thousands of bearing sets, and decided to bevel the corners and sell them, instead of scrapping all of them.
Also, if memory serves me correctly(which it doesn't always do), aren't the "anti spin" tabs supposed to be on opposing sides of the rod, so that both tabs align with the rotation of the crank, to keep both bearing halves from spinning?

no. in this case tab to tab. the crush is what really holds them as new engines have no tab apparantly.

I got a clevite tech I been talking to and we should hear from higher ups on Monday with some details.

 

[Cartel]

if this is the only rod, did you take a bearing out of one you know is correct and try it in the rod that is Quote, sliding over?

no its all the rods. what a waste of time and money this is turning out to be. pistons made in india, bearings that arent to spec.

whats next?



You can see the rock auto image shows the corners cut off on the tang side only.

 

[Cartel]

The rod cap was tightened down with the bearing crooked. It even shows up on the bearing tang in one of your pictures up there

Again, sorry for any confusion, those bearings are from something unrelated. I'm gonna get to the bottom of this tang thing. I'm not saying you are wrong.
This whole situation is costing me time. I wouldn't have even noticed this "offset" situation if I hadn't accidentally put #2 rod cap on backward and noticed it got tight to turn. yes I'm a frybag it happened but the crank is fine, I'm only snugging these rods right now. like 15ftlbs.
I got 1 3 5 7 installed. so when I was wiping the crank off I used q tips to clean the face of #1 rod in case any bearing debris got in the assembly lube from #2 rod I took back off.
thats when I seen the offset shoulder of the bearing. They are not crooked and cranked down. they are all offset.

Now clevite is gonna get back to me on this I hope.


So that scuffed up bearing is my fault and only to show there are no upper or lower markings.

 

[cookietruck]

no its all the rods. what a waste of time and money this is turning out to be. pistons made in india, bearings that arent to spec.

whats next?



You can see the rock auto image shows the corners cut off on the tang side only.

on the H series, that tang is in outer space and only the upper has the corners cut off. look at the tang spacing, thats gonna be offset too. the lower is on the edge. really bad on the V series

All these pics show the tangs on opposite sides but your photo in post 14 has the tangs on the same side of the rod.
Why?

Also the tang looks to be in different spots because some of those bearing shells are narrower for cranks with radius on the journals.

 

[Cartel]

All these pics show the tangs on opposite sides but your photo in post 14 has the tangs on the same side of the rod.
Why?

Also the tang looks to be in different spots because some of those bearing shells are narrower for cranks with radius on the journals.

because they need to be installed tang to tang? and the rock auto images are for reference?

 

[Cartel]

malhe says bearing notch optional but the tech cant find a print of when they made this change in the bearing.
nobody there knows

 

[Cartel]

Does anyone here have a 383 rod and a clevite bearing to see if they have the same results?

I gonna get a sealed power bearing and see if that fits without offset.

 

[Bewy]

This is 'much ado about nothing' [ Shakespeare?]. Read post #11 to solve your problem.

 

[Cartel]

This is 'much ado about nothing' [ Shakespeare?]. Read post #11 to solve your problem.

maybe if the corner of that bearing wasnt cut off. they call it a milling notch

why would the buck that corner off then? if they are supposed to be evenly aligned then there would be a triangle shape hole there for nothing.
Its not sticking out past the rod face, but it sticks out past the opposite bearing shell. Sorry for any confusion

??

Bearings from www.440 Source.com

#2) Alignment of the upper and lower bearing shells.

Because of the situation with aftermarket connecting rods we explained above, (where the bearing locating tangs may very slightly between manufacturers,) depending on the combination of rod and series of bearing you are using, the bearing shells may not line up exactly, or be "offset" slightly. This is most common in the "V" series rod bearings when used in our rods. It generally does not cause a problem, however you must be sure the amount of which the bearing is offset does not cause a issue with the outer edges of the bearing. When referring to fitment of the "outer edges" this can be broken down in further detail to the "outside facing edge" which is the edge which will fit near the radius at edge of the crank, and the "inside facing edge," which will face the opposite rod in center of the crank journal. Next, we explain what to look for in both these areas.

I just called Mike at 440 source and sent him my pictures of the offset to see if this is what they wrote about on their site. He is gonna grab a rod and bearing and see if he can confirm or deny anything.

 

[Bobzilla]

Basically yes. If the bearings "clear" everything and do otherwise fit correctly with correct bearing clearance they will work fine even with a mismatch or offset to one side or the other. You just have to check and make sure they do not contact the crankshaft on one side or the bearing of the rod next to it on the same journal.

I meant to check some bearings this weekend and forgot. I should have some of these and 383 rods from my old engine. I will try to check those in a few days when I get to them, if you do not already have a definite answer.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Basically yes. If the bearings "clear" everything and do otherwise fit correctly with correct bearing clearance they will work fine even with a mismatch or offset to one side or the other. You just have to check and make sure they do not contact the crankshaft on one side or the bearing of the rod next to it on the same journal.

I meant to check some bearings this weekend and forgot. I should have some of these and 383 rods from my old engine. I will try to check those in a few days when I get to them, if you do not already have a definite answer.

Not in my damn motor it wouldn't. I tell you what, I ain't ever seen somebody so hell bent for leather trying to justify something that's WRONG.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Basically yes. If the bearings "clear" everything and do otherwise fit correctly with correct bearing clearance they will work fine even with a mismatch or offset to one side or the other. You just have to check and make sure they do not contact the crankshaft on one side or the bearing of the rod next to it on the same journal.

I meant to check some bearings this weekend and forgot. I should have some of these and 383 rods from my old engine. I will try to check those in a few days when I get to them, if you do not already have a definite answer.

My last comment was not directed AT you, but the OP. I replied to you in disbelief that the guy is on here still trying to make it "right" in his mind. But hey, like I said, it's his pile of parts cause that's what it's gonna be. lol

 

[Bobzilla]

My last comment was not directed AT you, but the OP. I replied to you in disbelief that the guy is on here still trying to make it "right" in his mind. But hey, like I said, it's his pile of parts cause that's what it's gonna be. lol

No worries. I agree if it were mine I would be checking every one carefully. I never seen two halves of a rod bearing that were so different before, so I am interested in the answer. I think the mismatched side is boxed wrong and I would be getting more to try. But then again, that is why he is asking, because he wants to know if it is an issue or not.

 

[RustyRatRod]

No worries. I agree if it were mine I would be checking every one carefully. I never seen two halves of a rod bearing that were so different before, so I am interested in the answer. I think the mismatched side is boxed wrong and I would be getting more to try. But then again, that is why he is asking, because he wants to know if it is an issue or not.

It's possible. One thing's for sure, somethin's WRONG! or.......slap it on together. LMAO

 

[Cartel]

Ok unfortunately I cant find the old rod bearings but if you look at the photos I took, the witness marks seem to show they were a bit offset from the factory. the edge there is a dirty shadow where it was not contacting the bearing above it and the oil notch shows a shadow where there were offset also.
the also have corners on both sides milled
??

 

[Cartel]

I just checked the bearings we have (CB-527HND) that are marked upper/lower, installed them in a connecting rod both correct and swapped,
and the offset is the same.
Looks just like the image you sent

I agree with you that it does look goofy, but the shell doesn't overhang the chamfer on the rod or the cap,
and we have had no reports of failure. I'd run them.

that was 440 source

 

[Cartel]

Looks to me they are not perfect from the factory. I'm gonna go with it at this point.

 

[George Jets]

As long as the rod bearings are not sticking out beyond the bevel of the rod, you are golden. Mismatch and all.

When installing the bearing inserts into the rod and cap, do not put your Red STP Assembly Honey on the back side of the rod bearing inserts.

You want to put the rod bearing inserts in dry, then put a small even film of assembly lube on the bearing wear face.

Don't want the slimy thick sticky lube on the back side of the bearings.

You want them to stay in place without moving > dry on the backside.


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[jeff alder]

My last comment was not directed AT you, but the OP. I replied to you in disbelief that the guy is on here still trying to make it "right" in his mind. But hey, like I said, it's his pile of parts cause that's what it's gonna be. lol

Did your face look like your avatar Cats face right then?

 

[RustyRatRod]

Did your face look like your avatar Cats face right then?

Very possibly.

 

[George Jets]

Just thinking about how these oiling systems work, that bearing bevel slightly sticking out may act like a paddle to force the oil up between the 2 rods as the pressure is weeping out as the crank is spinning around.

Better lubrication for the 2 rubbing rods area. May be an advantage to that offset bevel after all?

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