Restomod or Original OEM style?? - Feedback Appreciated!

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BigB6958

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Been doing lots of research and hoping the smart folks on here have experience that can lead me down the right path. I want to replace my front suspension and steering on my '67 Dart GT convertible. I don't think it has ever been touched before (manual steering and drum brakes still) so I am sure new parts will be welcomed. But, I am unsure if I want to go and replace the old with new OEM style, or completely replace everything with tubular and rack/pinion. I plan on driving it a lot when done both on the highway and cruising. I want a high quality driving experience that would be as good as possible when compared to newer cars. I have read multiple articles and watched tons of YouTube vids, and there seems to be some folks that are on the restomod side and others that say replacing with original style equipment will be good enough. Lots of opinions.

If I am going to do restomod I will do a full QA1 or RMS type of unit - full configured and bolt-in. But that's a lot of cheddar. So any and all feedback is appreciated. Thanks ina dvance!

B
 
IMHO

keep it as stock as you can for the year, KH front disk OEM sway bar etc.

My dad always said "the parts you don't add, don't cause you no trouble"

if you go with aftermarket suspension / brake parts, will finding replacements be a choir 5-10 years from now? going to 73 disk and BBP is pretty straight forward and while not date correct it's all stock.

Now if you are doing it for resale... My understanding is restomod fetches more than OEM stock restored
 
I think this is a decision only you can make. IMO, people get really caught up in marketing hype and buy lots of things they may not need because they think it looks cool. Keep in mind, these little cars have competed and WON in every automotive motorsport competition there is using the stock style suspension. NASCAR, road courses, drag racing, ralley, autocross and on and on. That's not to say there are not some nice systems out there or there's no advantage. You can make the thing ride like it's on rails if that's what you want. But do you need that? Is that what you really want? If it is, then by all means, go for it. But if there's just a little doubt, that's a lot of coin gone for something you may not need. That said, if it's really something you're wanting to pursue, @HemiDenny makes some fine products.
 
can go either way for those results.

just did a 5,000 mile road trip in our dart and it rides and handles great with tube upper arms, adjustable strut rods, 1.08 torsion bars, borgenson steering box, hellwig sway bar and 11.75 stock style disc brakes. in the rear i have 130 pound eaton springs with a large bolt pattern 8 3/4. bilstein shocks at all 4 corners. 15x7 rims and 225/60-15 tires all around. also have a more aggressive alignment. it drives awesome, sticks to the road great. comfortable ride too.

that being said with the money and pain in the *** working with that stock suspension, any car i do from here on out will have an alter-k-tion. had an alter-k in my last car and should have put one in this car.

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abodyjoe said:
can go with way for those results.

just did a 5000 mile road trip in our dart and it road and handles great with tube upper arms, adjustable strut rods, 1.08 torsion bars, borgenson steering box, hellwig sway bar and 11.75 stock style disc brakes. in the rear i have 130 pound eaton springs with a large bolt pattern 8 3/4. bilstein shocks at all 4 corners. 15x7 rims and 225/60-15 tires all around. also have a more aggressive alignment. it drives awesome, sticks to the road great. comfortable ride too.

that being said with the money and pain in the *** working with that stock suspension, any car i do from here on out will have an alter-k-tion. had an alter-k in my last car and should have put one in this car.
Click to expand...
See? ^^^^^^ Stock type suspension with well though out upgrades.
 
HDK looks to be the best for street use for strength.

I have AJE for the race car because it is light . But strength is not good for the street. Bottom it once and it will self destruct.

If it were my street car I would use a factory 340 suspension and spindles You'll always be able to get replacement parts for maintenance . If you want big bolt pattern use 1968 mustang rotors on a-body disc spindles . Keeps the wheel base narrow and you'll get better fender clearance for steering with wider and taller tires and wheels.

Just did a 67 Barracuda with 73 up disc brakes and had fender clearance issues with 15 x 6 inch billet specialty wheels at factory ride height. We ended up trimming the fenders.
 
I would (and have taken) the middle route - upgraded versions of the stock components. Several companies made stiffer more durable versions of the stock steering and suspension components leading to better handling and more responsive steering without dumping very well vetted systems.
 
Great feedback everyone, thanks! You've give me a lot to think about. I am keeping the current 4.5" bolt pattern to accommodate the centerlines that came with the car (they are the real thing and I plan on having them powdercoated). I am not worried about numbers matching or anything since it was originally a 6 cyl. I feel like there is some middle ground that can be achieved here and based on what everyone has said I am going to do more research before I spend the money. I have looked at the Alter-K-ion site as well and they have some great stuff.

One of these days I will post some pics so you can see what the baseline is and then how it will be coming along. Last total resto I did was a 65 mustang and it turned out amazing. I knew nothing and worked outwards from there via helpful sites like this and YouTube vids. I sold it for more than I invested and I think that was a win. But this one will be a keeper....something to pass down to my son.
 
abodyjoe said:
can go with way for those results.

just did a 5000 mile road trip in our dart and it road and handles great with tube upper arms, adjustable strut rods, 1.08 torsion bars, borgenson steering box, hellwig sway bar and 11.75 stock style disc brakes. in the rear i have 130 pound eaton springs with a large bolt pattern 8 3/4. bilstein shocks at all 4 corners. 15x7 rims and 225/60-15 tires all around. also have a more aggressive alignment. it drives awesome, sticks to the road great. comfortable ride too.

that being said with the money and pain in the *** working with that stock suspension, any car i do from here on out will have an alter-k-tion. had an alter-k in my last car and should have put one in this car.

View attachment 1716319859
View attachment 1716319860
Click to expand...
That's beautiful!
 
So here's a little background info on my car and current setup.

My 74 Duster was originally a Slant 6, base everything model.
The previous owner stuck a V8 K-member in it, and gave me a 318 with an A904 transmission with it on the side. Both needed rebuilt.
I decided to go a different route. Instead I used a Roller LA360 From a 1990 Ramcharger and an A999 from a 1988 Diplomat, rebuilt and modded both. (I do have a 408 stroker I'm slowly assembling and will install it in later on)

For the suspension I did a Johnny Cash "one peice at a time" process:
The K-member ended being cracked and warped, I tried looking for another good K-member around here with no luck (A bodies are in short supply here in Utah, even in salvage yards).
So I ended up buying a QA1 tubular K-member. Which was on sale and only $465 at the time.
Eventually decided to get QA1 Upper control arms as the threads for one of the balljoints was stripped out on the original UCA's. Next year I installed PST's 1.03 inch Torsion Bar. I still had KYB shocks on at the time and the ride was so stiff it would rattle my bones.
Waited a few months and bought the QA1 Stocker Star NA front shocks.
Then 2 years later I bought QA1 Front sway bar. I also have the QA1 adjustable strut bars but haven't installed them yet. All the bushings are Prothane urethane.
The lower control arms are from a 1973 Dart, I used them because it has sway bar tabs, I welded steel plates between the two halves to stiffen up the pieces.
After all that, the handling improved by alot.
But honestly I probably only needed to change out the squishy torsion bars to the 1.03" or more one, upper control arms, changed the bushings to urethane and installed the front sway bar to improve the handling. As well as getting rid of the KYB shocks for something better.
The rear suspension is still original like it was 50 years ago, but soon that will change once I start installing the 8 3/4 quarter axle I'm building, All I'm doing is refreshing the rear springs, change out the bushings, install rear sway bar and put in better rear shocks (likely Bilsteins).
I am currently using 245/45R17 tires up front.
The rears are 275/40R17's (I may even go to 285/40's later)
 
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BigB6958 said:
If I am going to do restomod I will do a full QA1 or RMS type of unit - full configured and bolt-in. But that's a lot of cheddar. So any and all feedback is appreciated. Thanks ina dvance!

B
Click to expand...

a stock sylye set up isn't cheap to do properly either. to get where you want isn't really that much if any cheaper then an alter-k in reality...
 
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abodyjoe said:
can go either way for those results.

just did a 5,000 mile road trip in our dart and it rides and handles great with tube upper arms, adjustable strut rods, 1.08 torsion bars, borgenson steering box, hellwig sway bar and 11.75 stock style disc brakes. in the rear i have 130 pound eaton springs with a large bolt pattern 8 3/4. bilstein shocks at all 4 corners. 15x7 rims and 225/60-15 tires all around. also have a more aggressive alignment. it drives awesome, sticks to the road great. comfortable ride too.

that being said with the money and pain in the *** working with that stock suspension, any car i do from here on out will have an alter-k-tion. had an alter-k in my last car and should have put one in this car.

View attachment 1716319859
View attachment 1716319860
Click to expand...

Agreed!.

I installed the Alterkation and Streetlynk suspension systems from RMS and they are working flawlessly after putting over 9000 miles on them.

If I had known of them when I started the resto, I definitely would have given serious consideration to HDK Suspension as their product and service is exemplary as well.

That being said, I have learned a lot from a couple of the members on here about how to get great results from the Stock systems. I did the K-Member gussetting, boxed lCR's, upgraded strut rods and tie rod arms , firm feel box , shocks , sway bar etc.. on my previous suspension but after installing the RMS system, I'm personally sold on it. I would never go back.

BTW...my dealings with Bill Rielly and RMS was perfect. I had a few concerns but they were dealt with immediately and to my satisfaction.
 
abodyjoe said:
a stock sylye set up isn't cheap to do properly either. to get where you want isn't really that much if any cheaper then an alter-k in reality...
Click to expand...

I don’t have numbers in front of me, but I remember it being at least $1k+ or more for the COC.

Even if it is a similar price, I like that it can be done over time to upgrade the stock suspension. An aftermarket sway bar, upgraded torsion bars, Bilsteins and a set of offset bushings for the UCA and you are 3/4 of the way there and probably the same handling for $1500 or less. Do the adjustable strut rods and tubular UCA later. This is compared to dropping $5k+ ( or whatever the price is now) all at once.

My current project is a ‘73 Duster I am swapping a 5.7/T56 combo into and if I had to buy a COC kit to do it up front, I probably wouldn’t do it. The T56 kit was that much and I can’t see doing that twice before I even started on the project. The car is a /6 car, so I sourced a spool mount V8 k-frame and got it gusseted before I swapped it in. I also added the aftermarket sway bar during the swap. I had a set of 340 TB that went in until later. Other than that, it will roll the first time on that set up. At some point it is going to have the full boogy TB suspension along with 18” wheels and Scat Pack brakes and maybe even ABS, but it doesn’t have to sit on jack stands until then.

Add that I still don’t like how the coil overs load the chassis and the TB’s are a win for me.
 
DionR said:
I don’t have numbers in front of me, but I remember it being at least $1k+ or more for the COC.
Click to expand...

trust me its much closer in price then many here would want you to think.. can ya cheap out and do things different? sure, but you probably wont get the results others want.. its really all personal preference.


DionR said:
Even if it is a similar price, I like that it can be done over time to upgrade the stock suspension. An aftermarket sway bar, upgraded torsion bars, Bilsteins and a set of offset bushings for the UCA and you are 3/4 of the way there and probably the same handling for $1500 or less. Do the adjustable strut rods and tubular UCA later. This is compared to dropping $5k+ ( or whatever the price is now) all at once.
Click to expand...

thats up to you or whoever is doing it, do it however cheap you want or how expensive ya want. all depends on what you want in the end.

.. i can say i love how our dart drives with the stock style suspension..

a huge key for our car was the $1200 borgenson steering box in all honestly.. i don't care who rebuilds your stock one it isn't gonna feel like the borgenson.

fo me though.. i'll be doing an alter-k on any future cars i decide to build.. i've owned both and prefer the alter-k. i'd rather save and one stop shop, have it all sitting there before i pull the car apart. do it once. align it once and be out enjoying it instaed of putting it together, aligning it, taking it apart,aligning it...repeat.....

Add that I still don’t like how the coil overs load the chassis and the TB’s are a win for me.
Click to expand...

ahhh the real reason for your post...




.
 
BigB6958 said:
Been doing lots of research and hoping the smart folks on here have experience that can lead me down the right path. I want to replace my front suspension and steering on my '67 Dart GT convertible. I don't think it has ever been touched before (manual steering and drum brakes still) so I am sure new parts will be welcomed. But, I am unsure if I want to go and replace the old with new OEM style, or completely replace everything with tubular and rack/pinion. I plan on driving it a lot when done both on the highway and cruising. I want a high quality driving experience that would be as good as possible when compared to newer cars. I have read multiple articles and watched tons of YouTube vids, and there seems to be some folks that are on the restomod side and others that say replacing with original style equipment will be good enough. Lots of opinions.

If I am going to do restomod I will do a full QA1 or RMS type of unit - full configured and bolt-in. But that's a lot of cheddar. So any and all feedback is appreciated. Thanks ina dvance!

B
Click to expand...
I prefer stock.. i don't see any advantage in the tubular stuff (other than rack and pinion) BUT that being said..i put a PST 20:1 brand new box on my car, and all new oem rebuild parts and i have zero play in my steering and it drive fine... i wish i had stayed with drum brakes, i upgraded to disc and miss drums but to each their own.
 
abodyjoe said:
a huge key for our car was the $1200 borgenson steering box in all honestly.. i don't care who rebuilds your stock one it isn't gonna feel like the borgenson.
Click to expand...

No argument there. At the same time, I am still on the fence going between an electric PS with a 16:1 box or the Borgeson on the Hemi car. I sure like the Borgeson (that didn’t cost me $1200) in my LA car. Something to decide later.

abodyjoe said:
do it once. align it once and be out enjoying it instaed of putting it together, aligning it, taking it apart,aligning it...repeat.....
Click to expand...

Definitely a down side to doing it in stages. At least it would be 6 months or a year between alignments. I’m not bucks up enough to be able to afford to build a car “once” so I guess that is the option for me.

abodyjoe said:
ahhh the real reason for your post...
Click to expand...

Don’t read something into it that isn’t there. If that was the real reason for the post, I would have spent a lot more time on it than that.

abodyjoe said:
if thats makes you happy, then we are talking two differen't worlds here.
Click to expand...

It makes me happy to have something on hand that is better than the /6 bars it had in it. But it certainly isn’t the end goal, nor good enough. But it is enough that I can drive it and it will be better than it could have been.

Maybe you missed my comment about the end goal is a full boogy TB suspension and 18” wheels/tires. But 340 TB’s are what I have and cost me no money for now. Part of the “upgrade as funds allow” plan rather than “drive is as junk until I can save a whole wad of cash” plan.
 
For me.....(LOL, installed but not on the road yet)

Stiffened K frame.
Pro forged steering and suspension components.
Larger tie rods.
.920 torsion bars.
Bilstein shocks
Moog off set upper control arm bushings.

These upgrades on a stock KH equipped PS PB P340 Demon.

Considering a Borgeson steering box but, damn that's spendy.
 
I like the stock High Performance suspension like 340 cars and Formula S Barracudas with the factory front sway bar rubber bushings and all. The things I change is the upper control arms for extra positive Caster, maybe a larger front sway bar, and Bilstein shocks. I love the torsion bar suspension, if I wanted coil springs, I'd just buy a Mustang.
 
These are some great insights everyone. I really appreciate the feedback. Just shows there are a lot of opinions and just as many options. Luckily I have the icy winter months up here in Calgary to consider everything and make some decisions. Whatevber I do, the front suspension and steering is getting replaced with new, and the rear will get much better shocks, new bushings, shocks and a rear sway bar as well, at minimum. Will move to a power steering setup, and power front disc, but keep the rear drums. I have an 8 3/4 rear end but not sure on the gears. I have a 4.5 bolt pattern and I want to keep the centerlines that came with the car when I bought it (gonna powdercoat them), so that has to be considered as well.

The one thing I like about buying an all-in-one unit like from QA1 or RMS or whatever is that they are built to work together and designed as a unit, whereas piece-mealing it, to me, always ahs the ability to increase issues. I am sure many others have not had a problem doing it (as clearly described above) but if I am looking for a modern setup that would be the way to go. If I decide to stick with an original style setup, the suggestions above are awesome and save me some time.

As always I know I can count on this forum to give me the knowledge, and the honesty, I need to make this project a success. I'll post pics as things progress. Teardown is the first step.
 
BigB6958 said:
whereas piece-mealing it, to me, always ahs the ability to increase issues.
Click to expand...

totally something to that. i can tell you that pete @BergmanAutoCraft has it pretty much figured out if you want to one stop shop for stock style suspension. great customer service. he was on vacation overseas and still got right back to me via text when i ran into an issue.
 
Old doesn’t necessarily mean inferior nor does new necessarily mean better.

All of the “modern” COC’s still use a spindle that was based on the Pinto/Mustang2 and until recently probably had worse suspension geometry than a stock suspension potentially had. Whether or not the longer UBJ’s people are using now is a complete fix is an unknown, but it makes it much closer than it was for sure.

Not saying anyone should change your mind, only want to point out some of the perceptions people sometimes have that are glossed over.
 
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