School me!
- Thread starter 02sixxer
- Start date
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V8 centrifugal systems (vortech, Procharger, Powerdyne, etc.) should have a minimum of a 3" exhaust system from the headers back.
Mine is 2.5" and I'm sure that I'm losing power with it.
A turbo system should have the same.... 3" minimum on a small block and 4" for anything bigger.
Just my opinion; your mileage may vary...
My car would run probably a half a second faster (quicker) with a turbo.
I don't know how to weld, but if I did.... :cheers:
I know this may be annoying, but could you list the parts needed to place a belt driven procharger or centrifugal system on my 383. I have found a pretty decent deal on a procharger with 1500 miles off a 5.0 mustang. It s cureently an 8lb boost pulley but he has the 10lb and 12lb with it. also what is needed with the fuel system. I am sorry but I am just not that confident I know enough and may be forgetting some items.
I can tell you what I did....
I had a nearly stock 360 Magnum in my '72 Valiant, without a blower. It wasn't very fast (13.35 @ 102mph.)
I decided I could not gather the technical expertise (welding a turbo exhaust system;) I don't have a welder, (and wouldn't know how to plug it in, if I had one.) to build a turbo system.
So, it looked like some sort of a supercharger, for my '72.
I didn't want to maim my hood, so I forgot the Roots or screw-type system. That left me with a choice of centrifugals. I found a new, still-in-the-box V-1, S-trim Vortech on ebay for $1,000.00, which appealed to me. I bought it.
Then, I learned that I also needed a blower mounting plate (which I fabricated, myself) a bottom pulley (for the blower's serpentine drive,) an idler pulley for the belt (I made that, too,) a new fuel system (half-inch push-on hose,) an MSD ignition called the "Boostmaster ignition retard," which retards your ignition 1-, 2-, or 3-degrees, (up to a maximum of 15-degrees) for every pound of boost it "sees" through a hose connected to your charge delivery tube, (YOU select how much retard it gives, from a dash-mounted control knob.) I also needed discharge pipe plumbing to get the air to the carb, a carburetor "bonnet" or "hat", to take the pressurized air down into the carburettor, a $900.00 750 Holley double pumper that had been modidied for "blow thru" by a specialty shop called "The Carb Shop" in Ontario, California... and a Snowperformance Boost Cooler, alcohol/water-injector that sprays atomized water and alky into the discharge pipe to cool it, thereby warding off detonation. A new electric fuel pump was necessay, I felt, because of the increased demand for fuel at higher pressures. That required the purchase of a high-dollar fuel presssure regulator to bring down the electric pump's 31 psi to 7 pounds at the carb. It (the regulator) is boost referenced so that the carb gets 7 psi above boost, no matter what. You don't want this system to go lean....ever. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Are you still sure you want to do this??? LOL!
The bottom line is, I went from 13.35 unblown, to mid-11's and from 102 mph to about 116. A different car, altogether... Yours should do better.
Yes I want to do this. I am in the same situation you were. I do have a welder, but not confident in my skills. I dont think I could build the exhaust starting with the headers. As far as fuel system, what did you use? What pump? what controller? the guy selling the pro charger has every thing from his fox body mustang kit. I know certian things I dont need like the injectors, but wil the T rex pump work on a carb sysem. will his intercooler work if I just re plumb it. Aslo he has a cold air intak for the pro charger by Anderson, what is the likliness of that working. I doubt the bracket will work but I may be able to modify them if I buy them too and if not I can just make some.
Also, as far as my demon where would I buy a kit to convert it to a blow threw.
Also, as far as my demon where would I buy a kit to convert it to a blow threw.
As far as I know, there are no "kits" that have the parts/instructions to modify a N-A carb to blow-thru caapabilities. There seem to be, however, several carb manufacturers offering blow-thru units available, new.
There exists, somewhere on the web (I think Shaker223 has the URL) instructions for modifying a Holley double pumper, manual secondary carb to blow-thru status, if you want to do your own.
My fuel pump came from " Product Engineering"
http://www.product-engr.com/), and was pricey, but is a good one. My fuel system is all half-inch rubber "push-on" line (NHRA approved.) The pressure regulator came from Professional Products, also. Ditto on the "not cheap" comment.
As far as the plumbing and brackets are concerned, myself, I would just assume that NONE of the Mustang stuff will work and build my own. I think it's like building a house, it's a lot easier to build a NEW one from the ground up, than to attempt to modify an existing house.
One thing to consider; your engine is so much bigger than the Mustang's, and will probably make a LOT more power, that fuel pump that was fine for his little 302 may not pump sufficient gas for your engine and, if it doesn't... well, it won't be pretty. That's a subject for a lot of research. Serious research. Lean-out from fuel starvation will kill a turbo'd motor in a heart-beat, or quicker.
I'm attaching a couple of pictures of my fuel "systems." Two complete systems that can be used, one-at-a-time, as needed.
Original tank is plumbed through the Fram filter, to a secondary "street" pump, to the regulator, for driving to the strip on pump gas (can never go on boost with this system; strictly hiway cruise...)
Fuel cell is plumbed through the big Fram filter, also, but, then, to the BIG 31 psi pump and to the regulator. This is the race-only system. When racing is over, I turn a few valve handles, and drive back home on pump gas. There's another filter (inline) just before the regulator.
Aftermarket electric pumps are notorioudly unreliable, in my experience. Bearing that in mind, I built this system so that I can run either fuel source through either pump, by twisting a couple of valves and flipping two (electrical) switches. Looks bizarre and ungodly complicated, but, it's really not. I feel a lot better, out on the highway, driving to and from the strip. The second pump (a Holley "blue" pump) is under the car, just ahead of the right rear wheel.
Here it is... along with a couple of shots to show that yes, I CAN get the spare tire out with all those hoses in place... :cheers:
I am not in any way, qualified to answer that question.
Somebody with big block experience is going to have to field that one... sorry.:read2:
I bought my fuel pump and fuel cell today. I bought a Magnafuel Quickstar 300 pump with filter and return plus the regulator and a 15 gallon RCI aluminum fuel cell. I have been looking at two centrifugal superchargers, just need to save up a few more buck since I ve bought a lot this month. Seats, shifter, valve covers, carpet, tank, and pump. Thats a good month.
Bill, what type of street pump are you running? I will have my car back next week and want to get the fuel system pup in. I am thinking of mimicing your set up, with a street pump and race. Just trying to gather some info before I make the decision.
Also that fram filter, what size is the inlet and outlet. I have been looking for one for after my pump, but all the inlet and outlet sizes are 3/8". I have a pre filter and wanted slightly larger inlet amd outlet.
Dorian
dorian
What are your expectations for drag racing?
1. Do you just want to go as fast as your wallet will allow you?
2. Do you want to go fast, and be consistent and have a chance of winning?
If you picked #2 then go with a stroker setup, 440 source makes nice kits for a reasonable cost, that will run on pump gas, and you can still drive it on the street.
I have watched lots of cars run at our track and I can tell you, turbos are not consistent due to spool up.
1. Do you just want to go as fast as your wallet will allow you?
2. Do you want to go fast, and be consistent and have a chance of winning?
If you picked #2 then go with a stroker setup, 440 source makes nice kits for a reasonable cost, that will run on pump gas, and you can still drive it on the street.
I have watched lots of cars run at our track and I can tell you, turbos are not consistent due to spool up.
nqkjw
Well-Known Member
How quick are you aiming to be?
Originaly, I ran a Holley BLACK pump on the street. It was unreliable to this extent: After about ONE HOUR total running time, it quit on me and I was never able to get it to run, again. So, I ordered a Holley BLUE pump and it has been MINIMALLY better. Let me explain: It now has probably 3 hours total running time on it, and driving down the highway, on the way to the strip, it nosed over, like the carburetor was running out of gas (it was!) I nursed it home, drove it the next day and it was the same problem, maybe a little worse, nNeedle and seat are clean....and the two (2) fuel filters are, too...
I don't have an onboard fuel pressure gauge, YET, but one of these days I will and I'll figure it out. If I switch over to the big pump, all the fuel-starvation problems go away.
Right now, I wouldn't give you a plugged nickel for a Holley pump of ANY color.... I have a friend who races an NHRA Stocker and he's had similar experiences with his Holley fuel pumps,
About the time that problem reasdred its ugly head, I got knee-deep in this /6 project and I pretty much abaldoned the V8 car. Slants sixes are SO much more exciting, I think!!!:cheers:
Email me at [email protected] if you need more info.
Thanks for your interest!!!! Most people just look at all that plumbing (on my '72 Valiant) and laugh....
Overall it is not about the track time, I want it to be somthing than the normal duster. I have a 440 block that I purchased with the whole bottom end. I could stroke it and have a nice roller 512 with 650 hp. But there are so many of those. I see them all the time especially in the dusters and demons around here. I want a fast car that I can cruise around in and when I go to the track be even faster. Time wise, I probably want very low 11's and still very streetable.
Bill did you run the rubber push on all the way to the front? I was thinking of running aluminum under the car and fitting it back to steel braided right brfore it goed to the regulator under the hood. Is this okay or should I run the braided or push-on the entire distance?
Aaron,
Here's what I did:
I came out of both tanks with push-on rubber and ran it to both filters and pumps, and continued with rubber to the inner-fender-panel mounted regulator, (under the hood,) but then went to braided from the regulator to the carb's 2 inlets. I did use a brass, (or copper; I can't tell) 3/4"-diameter "collar" about 24" long on the outside of the push-on hose where it passes the flywheel (I moved it to the outside of the frame rails, for that part of the journey,) and on forward up to within about 18" of the regulator. It passes through a crossmember in that space, and that was my way of protecting the outside of the hose from abrasion.
Listen, this was the FIRST application of push-on hose for a fuel system I had ever attempted, so understand, my system is just a homemade, shadetree, assortment of parts assembled by a guy who not only had never DONE it before, but who had never even SEEN such a system, anywhere, so, I may have made some really stupid mistakes.... grievous errors... but so far, it's working okay.
Good luck with yours; I don't THINK it's rocket science!!!!:cheers:
Summit sells that Fram filter with both 3/8" AND half-inch fittings.
I know 'cause I just bought a half-inch one.
You can run low 11's with a turbocharged slant six... and use 2.91 gears, no mufflers, and it will like it.... smooth idle and great driveability, and probably cheaper than a big V8.
Food for thought....
Here's a list as complete as I can make it, but I am sure I will likely leave something out. Here we go...
Centrifugal supergharger of some kind
Mounting plate
Crank pulley for blower
Idler pulley and mount for the pulley
Plumbing for the supercharger's output to either the intercooler, or to the carb, if you decide not to run an intercooler
Plumbing from the intercooler to the carb hat or enclosure
Re-curved distributor
MSD B0ostmaster if street driven; not needed if just for the strip
Some sort of alky/water injector to help lower the necessary octane
Supercharger belt
Boost gauge
Entire new fuel system, with a boost-referenced fuel pump and pressure regulator, minimum 1/2" hose and fittings
Appropriate exhaust system (2 1/2" is good; 3" is better
Carb "hat," or carb enclosure
I have heard that single-plane intakes work better that 180-degree designs, although my Air-Gap Chinese ripoff seems to work okay on my 360.
Turbocharging is very similar, but different, in detail.
Hope this helps!
I know I could do much faster, but remember I still want it as a street machine, not too much cage work, so when I say 11's, its more because of all the rules when running under 11 an 10.
I want to do the 383 because, I think its a perfect canidate. TRW forged pistons not bored just honed, in the 8.9:1 Cr range, forged crank amd rods, 915 head with the larger valves, single plane intake. I currently have a .509 lift cam with a custom grind, but I dont have all the info on it becaus it came to me from a third party who could not find the info, so I dont know how much overlap or duration, but it runs very strong but has a really good idle for the lift. I may shop for a different cam that is good for a forced induction. Will my current MSD Distributor be okay with a force induction. If a get a Boostmaster, its a pro billet?
I agree wholeheartedly, that a 383/400 is the engine to build, if you want a v8.
I don't know about MSD to a very large extent, but I don't THINK that a Boostmaster is a digital, multi-spark design. I seem to remember that mine came with paperwork that alluded to the fact that it was an analog unit with no multiple-spark capability, and that its output was 42,000 volts, a bit under a 6-AL.
I never have ignition issues, though, with 10 pounds of boost, so it's apparently adequate for my car.
I think that plan is a good one; sure a lot cheaper than push-on hose and couplers....:cheers:
1wild&crazyguy
Banned
lose the the MP .509 for the solid MP .528
get a high rise dual plane intake and a 800 cfm double pumper.
run 1 7/8 headers into 2 1/2 dual pipes with a across over.
run around 9.5-9.8 compression and about 35* total [whatever it likes really] and around 24* initial all in rpm based on convertor stall or 2200 if 4 spd and even then it depends on gear.
simple as that that
get a high rise dual plane intake and a 800 cfm double pumper.
run 1 7/8 headers into 2 1/2 dual pipes with a across over.
run around 9.5-9.8 compression and about 35* total [whatever it likes really] and around 24* initial all in rpm based on convertor stall or 2200 if 4 spd and even then it depends on gear.
simple as that that
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