Scream'n 318 ?

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Looking at the original flow sheet they peaked at 204 cfm @ 600.
 
RussellSullivan said:
The real reason they're attractive to me is that I already have them, and it will be a budget build. That, coupled with the closed chamber. Valves are tiny, but that can and will be addressed.

Seems most people go the other way - 318s with 360 heads. Interesting that you did the opposite.
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The guy that put the engine together was on old school die hard racer. He said to me do not touch the heads and don't listen to what anyone says but hey I'd read all the mags and listened to all the internet forum experts that said the heads where choking it to death and I made the ports bigger and stuck in larger valves and then went to different cams and then to 360 heads and NONE of those performed like that engine did.

I spoke to my machinist yesterday about it and he said a fellow racer he competes against came in one day with his engine and said he wanted just a freshen up and DO NOT TOUCH THE HEADS or change anything. Anyway he looked at the heads and saw it only had a 1.74 intake valve and 1.5 exhaust in an early small port design. It had some bowl work done and some chamber relief work but other than that looked stock. He said he couldn't understand how it was making the power it was with such a small valve and no port CSA. When the guy turns up to pick it up he asked him about the heads and the guy said when they showed up from the guy who did them he wanted to punch his lights out because he paid 3k for them and very little was done or looked to have been done to them but when on the engine it ran quicker than he had before.

There's a lot more to making power than just airflow. When a car makes power with very little perceived airflow people will ignore it because it challenges their understanding of how an engine works and that means they will have to rethink their approach to how they build engines. When you've been doing it one way for decades its hard to see it any other way.
 
318willrun said:
Looking into it. Unfortunately, I don't have a way to machine my own parts.
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Send them to me. I'll make the solid bushings out of aluminum for beer money. I was thinking of doing it anyway if I can find a decent LA roller 5.9 block. So I may as well practice on someone else's parts.
 
gzig5 said:
Send them to me. I'll make the solid bushings out of aluminum for beer money. I was thinking of doing it anyway if I can find a decent LA roller 5.9 block. So I may as well practice on someone else's parts.
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thank you very much~!! I'll let you know if I need assistance :)
:thumbsup:
 
RussellSullivan said:
The real reason they're attractive to me is that I already have them, and it will be a budget build. That, coupled with the closed chamber. Valves are tiny, but that can and will be addressed.

Seems most people go the other way - 318s with 360 heads. Interesting that you did the opposite.
Click to expand...

MoPar sold the 302 head and reported it made 55hp more than a 360 headed 318. Food for thought....
 
Hysteric said:
Yeah 302's are junk..
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We've done this before.... Do you drink coffee??? Well "I" don't, because "I" don't like it. But feel free to pour another cup!!!! ..... Just because I say "I" don't prefer the 302 heads in more aggressive builds when "I" am asked don't mean that I'm saying that they are junk, or you are wrong, or anything else. I'm saying what "I" prefer. :)

  • How many 302 heads do you see deep in the 10's in steel door cars on all throttle and stock stroke??? I can tell you I've seen of X/J heads deep in the 10's
 
Hysteric said:
This is what you said:



For any kind of performance.....
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Yep, I said "I" am not a big fan. I also said "next to stock". My opinion, I'm not entitled to have one when I am asked?? And means you insist, how many people are going fast... no, not 12's fast, I mean REAL fast with 302 heads on all throttle??? Find me a 9 second door car on all throttle using 302 heads, stock stroke. Waiting....
 
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Hysteric said:
I had them on a low comp 360 with a 1.84 valve with very little if any porting. All I can say is that the acceleration was nothing short of astounding, brutal but beautiful all at the same time. It was still pulling at 6000 RPM where the limiter was set on the 6AL

It had a 256 @ 0.050 solid but still made 185 psi on the comp test.
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185 psi ? I'm assuming the low compression 360 was 8.1.
Cam specs ? psi seems awful high for a low compression 360.
 
318willrun said:
How many 302 heads do you see deep in the 10's in steel door cars on all throttle and stock stroke??? I can tell you I've seen of X/J heads deep in the 10's
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So performance starts at 10 secend et's.....

My machinist use to run a bare bones low comp 8-1 318 right down to stock rod bolts in a light car that used to run 11.0s and they had to swap out the air gap for a lowly performer to slow the car down because it would have broken out of the class limit.

fishmens67 said:
185 psi ? I'm assuming the low compression 360 was 8.1.
Cam specs ? psi seems awful high for a low compression 360.
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9-1 from memory. Cam was only 490 lift it was a long slow lobe.
 
Hysteric said:
So performance starts at 10 secend et's.....

My machinist use to run a bare bones low comp 8-1 318 right down to stock rod bolts in a light car that used to run 11.0s and they had to swap out the air gap for a lowly performer to slow the car down because it would have broken out of the class limit.



9-1 from memory. Cam was only 490 lift it was a long slow lobe.
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Well, I'm done with the 302's Not what this thread is about, you can start a thread and challenge the world and maybe we'd all learn something
:)
 
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Sorry my replies are to Russel Sullivan in regards to making power with smaller heads.

Sorry didn't realize the conversation would make you feel so insecure so ill stop posting. If you had an issue you should have said so earlier.
 
Hysteric said:
Sorry my replies are to Russel Sullivan in regards to making power with smaller heads.

Sorry didn't realize the conversation would make you feel so insecure so ill stop posting. If you had an issue you should have said so earlier.
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LOL... insecure??? :D . You copied ME, and said "Yeah, 302's are junk".... So don't copy me and say it's for somebody else... :rolleyes: And because I said "I" didn't like 302 heads in performance application your insecurity came out with all defensive mode... LOL I'm just saying start a thread, because you have debated this more than just this thread. So create a thread on just the 302 head vs the world. It would be great!
 
318willrun said:
Boy, ordered my parts this morning and ended up way under budget!!!!! Can't wait to get this screamer together!!!!!!
1st the cam....
Summit Racing SUM-6900 Summit Racing® Classic Camshafts | Summit Racing

Lifters....
Rhoads Lifters 2018 Rhoads Original Hydraulic Flat Tappet Lifters | Summit Racing

carb.... 400 2bbl on the 360 2bbl intake will have more low end crunch than a 408 from off idle, especially with the cam advanced 4* and the Rhoads lifters
Uremco 6-6139 UREMCO Remanufactured Carburetors | Summit Racing

I'll use the 302 heads on DT, and with my port job I'm hoping they flow around 240 @ .450 lift. Even though they are closed chamber, I'll use some of all the left over money to mill an additional .050 and hopefully that puts me at 9.8 to 1 with Fel Pro 1008 gasket.

Oh! I plan to dremel the divider out of the plenum of the 360 intake making it more of a single plane. That intake should flow what the heads will flow then.

:thumbsup: Scream'n 318
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Did you order this stuff ?
I have the 6900 in my 73 W200 360 with Holley 2 barrel. lol
It was a good upgrade from the factory cam. works good with the 4.10's and loadflite.
 
My current 318 situation will be put together via parts robbing from a 340 and a 360 each of which where solid running motors. I will be upset if it doesn't make 300 on the tire... matter of fact if it doesnt it's all for sale the day after #318Fest (May 8).
 
AustinGriggs said:
My current 318 situation will be put together via parts robbing from a 340 and a 360 each of which where solid running motors. I will be upset if it doesn't make 300 on the tire... matter of fact if it doesnt it's all for sale the day after #318Fest (May 8).
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I won't be at 318Fest.... but I'll be getting flattened by a 414 with .640 lift on a separate date
stock-photo-crushed-cars-209596642.jpg
 
Hysteric said:
The guy that put the engine together was on old school die hard racer. He said to me do not touch the heads and don't listen to what anyone says but hey I'd read all the mags and listened to all the internet forum experts that said the heads where choking it to death and I made the ports bigger and stuck in larger valves and then went to different cams and then to 360 heads and NONE of those performed like that engine did.

I spoke to my machinist yesterday about it and he said a fellow racer he competes against came in one day with his engine and said he wanted just a freshen up and DO NOT TOUCH THE HEADS or change anything. Anyway he looked at the heads and saw it only had a 1.74 intake valve and 1.5 exhaust in an early small port design. It had some bowl work done and some chamber relief work but other than that looked stock. He said he couldn't understand how it was making the power it was with such a small valve and no port CSA. When the guy turns up to pick it up he asked him about the heads and the guy said when they showed up from the guy who did them he wanted to punch his lights out because he paid 3k for them and very little was done or looked to have been done to them but when on the engine it ran quicker than he had before.

There's a lot more to making power than just airflow. When a car makes power with very little perceived airflow people will ignore it because it challenges their understanding of how an engine works and that means they will have to rethink their approach to how they build engines. When you've been doing it one way for decades its hard to see it any other way.
Click to expand...


I’m confused. You used a better head and slowed down so the better head was bad.

The size of the valve is just as dependent on how much area you have to feed it as is bore size, maybe more.

You can stick a 2.08 valve in a 302 head and it will be a pig because the port can’t support it.
 
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yellow rose said:
I’m confused. You used a better head and slowed down so the better head was bad.

The size of the valve is just as dependent on how much area you have to feed it as is bore size, maybe more.

You can stick a 2.08 valve in a 302 head and it will be a pig because the port can support it.
Click to expand...

It’s a super stock kind of thing ya know...
He’ll just poke fun and belittle while offering no real help while handing out back handed back door comments.
 
I freshened up a 318 some years back and was going to run J heads on it. An old mechanic I know advised against it,said the flat top Pistons and large combustion chambers on the 340 heads would lower compression to "run like a pooch" level. My question is, are there Pistons available for 318 that come above the deck like early 340?? To raise compression?
 
Dartswinger70 said:
I freshened up a 318 some years back and was going to run J heads on it. An old mechanic I know advised against it,said the flat top Pistons and large combustion chambers on the 340 heads would lower compression to "run like a pooch" level. My question is, are there Pistons available for 318 that come above the deck like early 340?? To raise compression?
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We have put 340/360 heads on 318's and have yet once to have it cost us performance, but in fact always a nice gain... but what do I know :rolleyes: I don't even like my own advise!!! :D
 
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