Swinging for Divorce…

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red67gts said:
I think the metal will still sweat if the insulation isn’t touching it. I ran into that on a house I remodeled for my daughter and had to spray foam the underside of the metal roof
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From most of the DIY videos I’ve been watching is you want to have a slight gap between the board and the metal in order to let any moisture that may get in there have the ability to dry. By leaving that gap and having slight gaps between the metal and outside, like on the roof, air ventilates through and moisture doesn’t sit stuck to the metal or the insulation board. Then I can cover the walls with plywood or drywall or something else later on.

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Phreakish said:
Insulating that thing after the fact will be a feat. Unless you want to rip all the siding and roofing off probably best to put plywood in all the stud bays, then fill with insulation. If they're 2x4 walls, you might could fur them out to get some thickness and r19 in there. Cap it off with metal siding to keep the weight down (plus more water resistant than Sheetrock!) since who knows if it's on much of a footing? I wouldn't worry much either way, but metal walls would just be more durable in a shop setting and be more fire resistant than plywood and less hassle to diy than Sheetrock too.

You could spray foam as is, but then if you ever need to repair or replace siding or roofing, or get a leak (and you will) you're kinda hosed.
I'd be tempted to pull all the roofing off and put down condensation blanket insulation and then put the roof back. It makes a heck of a difference and will cut way down on condensation too, especially if you start heating with anything out there. If you do heat it, you'll want to keep everything above the dew point to avoid condensation on cars and parts. It'll wreak all kinds of havoc on bare metal stuff in just a couple short years.

Insulating a smaller space within the space is probably the smartest way to do it, and depending on how you do it, could also be expandable until the whole place is done.

As far as electric, they make mud and extension rings for a reason. Would cut down on the work quite a bit.
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The walls are all 2x6 and the studs are all spaced 24in apart :)

I don’t know what dew point is… I heat it right now with a propane 30-60k shop heater, but eventually want to heat it with something more efficient and that doesn’t make it smell like gas. Maybe I’ll do a mini split and a wood stove.

I looked at the electric plugs and stuff. They actually all seem to be placed on the outside of the studs.
 
DentalDart said:
The walls are all 2x6 and the studs are all spaced 24in apart :)

I don’t know what dew point is… I heat it right now with a propane 30-60k shop heater, but eventually want to heat it with something more efficient and that doesn’t make it smell like gas. Maybe I’ll do a mini split and a wood stove.

I looked at the electric plugs and stuff. They actually all seem to be placed on the outside of the studs.
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With regard to dew point: it's the temperature at which water vapor will condense.
What happens is that dew point can rise when you heat air. Combustion creates water vapor and so does your body and breath.
So when you go out to the shop and it's 40 degrees outside but the dew point is 34, all is well. But then you fire up the heater and get to sweating and breathing and adding humidity, the few point rises to say 44, but the heater is keeping the air at 55 so you're comfortable. But the metal siding has only warmed some and is like 42 degrees. Now water starts to condense on the walls. If you're not heating full time, the cars, engines, or anything heavy (like a concrete floor) will take a while to warm up and water condenses on them too.

If the heat is on full time and nothing is allowed to cold-soak to below the dew point, you'll never see it. It's just something to consider. Occasionally warming a spot as you work is not a big deal. But constantly heating and then letting a place cool off completely can start to cause some serious moisture collection.

When you insulate, it helps increase the temperature difference across a material. So instead of your walls being 42 degrees when it's 55 in the shop, the walls are more like 52 degrees and thus much less likely to ever be cool enough to cause condensation. Insulation engineering (r value requirements) are all about ensuring that water cannot find a place to condense out of the air in a place that it cannot dry from. Luckily, local building codes tend to have the math figured out pretty well.

2x6 walls on 24" centers are excellent. Easy to find insulation to drop in there and sheath over. Fiberglass is the cheapest route and is effective, but mice love to nest in it and so the cavity needs to be resistant to them. That's why I'd be sheathing each stud bay first, that and it will help prevent air movement through the wall which is hugely important for a good insulation result. Metal siding tends to be leaky when it comes to air.
 
Look into Prodex , that's what was used for our 60x60 shop.
 
fishmens67 said:
Look into Prodex , that's what was used for our 60x60 shop.
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Better than nothing, but no better than shiny bubble wrap stuff. Their r value claims of 15-22 are ridiculous.
Fiberglass tends to run around a dollar to two dollars a square foot depending on r value, but minimum it would be r13 vs 1-3 for shiny bubble wrap type products.
 
I have always said, look at what the locals do. (Unless you live where (most) all the locals are idiots!) (I did not mention any particular state in that remark!!!) Otherwise this will go to P an P!!!!!!
I have mentioned before check with Luckys Discount Lumber, just east near Seymore Mo one of the largest pole barn builders in S Mo. Ask for my buddy PorkChop. For advice and materials!

Here in Texas they call them barnameniums, I built two in Mo. where I called them pole barn homes! ha! Ok so I am not wealthy and just simple. One in 05 an sold it in 07, (the Pilgrim from Az. had $) and 10 mi out of Springfield but I had neighbors, made a $ and moved 40 miles further out and built the second one in 07. We used the accepted method of laying a material under the roof tin that was a vapor barrier. Cheap and it works. 6 inch studs between the poles, I prefer a subfloor to a pad that can crack, but hey we are talking pole barn garage! I digress.

Your shop, I would insulate between the studs with plain fiberglass insulation like just said above, and blow in plain old cellose insulation on that. Works and is cheap. A dentist can do it!! Do your walls in sheetrock or whatever you desire. In my last Mo. home was 1500sq ft, ALL I ever had for heat was a $250 wood stove. It was fine. But I wasn't raised in the burbs. A small wood stove and cheap wood will run you out if you warm it up before hand otherwise, or be fancy and have central heat and air like my sissy buddy. Look at pellet stove that run off wood pellets or shelled corn.

Have you had throwed rolls at Lamberts yet!?? :steering: :steering: :steering: :confederateflag:
 
this place is definitely getting insulated, it’s balls cold in here now.

This is how the outlets in here are currently. A little beyond the wood, I’m sure I can megiver it a bit.

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@barbee6043 i have a pellet fireplace and a wood fireplace in the house. I’ll probably do a wood fireplace in the shop because I have lots of wood on the property. Easy and free fuel.

I’ll see if pork chop is still out there.
 
mygasser said:
before you put much more on the new shelving i'd insulate the wall behind them while you can still move them :poke: :)
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Haha I thought of that. I actually have those shelves about 2 feet off the wall and behind it I have the windshield glass and couple other boxes.

I’m going to go get some panels and stuff tomorrow. To get some of these walls closed up.
 
Well Lowe’s only had the 1in faced at Lowe’s today, tomorrow I’m getting 2in faced at Menards since I have to get some doors anyway. I’m also going to go buy a table saw because cutting these with a blade sucks, it’s not hard but I don’t cut the boards perfectly straight.

As you can see it’s a disaster in here again haha.

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@barbee6043 porkchop said Hello! He said he tried to get ahold of you recently but wasn’t able to.

He’s a nice guy. Said he is building a 74 duster with a 408 now.
 
Well I have only worked on this for maybe 1-2 hours a day, and 30 minutes of that is always trying to warm the shop up before starting lol. I also picked up a table saw, it makes cutting the boards so much easier.

It’s already holding temps better but it will get a lot better soon. I got some 2in board, a total of almost 40 boards between Menards and Lowe’s. Tomorrow I am going to pick up great stuff expanding insulation foam for between the foam boards.

I added some 6 MIL plastic over the rafters as well. I still have to get about 1/2 of the roof covered with plastic as well.

I’ll insulate the roof in the spring when I have installed new trusses.

I plan on putting OSB over the walls. For ac/heat I still have no clue. Maybe mini split with heat and ac, I’m not 100% sure yet. From what I have read on a 40x40 shop you need about 24-30k BTU mini split but they are supposed to be very energy efficient.

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With as much area as you're doing, I'd look into froth paks for the spray foam. Cheaper in the long run than the cans, but you'll want to have all the boards in first because it's not something that can be started and stopped a bunch from what I understand.
 
My shop is 30x40, but some goof put in an internal room all the way down the long side that's 10' wide. That leaves 20x40 for the shop proper. It was uninsulated for the first 15 years I had it. I managed it using a 30K propane heater right where I was working. About 10 years ago I insulated the place (R-19) and added two big 60" ceiling fans to push the heat down from the roof, using the same propane heater. What a difference that made! It was very workable with this arrangement.

Fast forward to two years ago, I added a mini-split. Holy Cow, now it's shirt sleeve temps easy, if I want! Summers are cool as you want it. Our temps up here average highs in the 40-50's and lows in the low 30's in the winter. Summers are not too bad, highs normally 85-90 but the nights get cool most of the time. I love that mini-split!

And you are correct, they are efficient. My old energy use was for a single forced-air electric furnace in the house that was $195 a month. After pulling out the old house furnace and adding the mini-split to both the house and shop (which formerly had nothing for heating/cooling) my energy use went DOWN about 30%. And that's with running the A/C in the summer in the house. There's nothing here not to like - run, don't walk down that mini-split path!
 
Well I got a bunch done today… not. My wife needed me to hang some doors and then this **** box showed up. lol.

I do have a system down with the rest of the insulation so I think I’ll get a good amount done tomorrow…

No more searching for little things to finish the swinger. Plus it’s better than the FSM when wanting to see how things go together.

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