T-56 Transmission Install Thread

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I read this whole thread, but I'm still not quite understanding. Please bear with my dumb question: I bought the engine/transmission dropout from a 2010 SRT8 Challenger (6.1, TR6060). Can I use the bellhousing/clutch/pp/flywheel/tob/starter that it comes with? Or do I need to throw all these things out and start new?
 
If it's all together I'd just use it all. Most people don't get it all together.

You'll have to cut the floor and deal with a crossmember but a lot of the hard part is already done.

Riddler
 
payneinthe said:
I read this whole thread, but I'm still not quite understanding. Please bear with my dumb question: I bought the engine/transmission dropout from a 2010 SRT8 Challenger (6.1, TR6060). Can I use the bellhousing/clutch/pp/flywheel/tob/starter that it comes with? Or do I need to throw all these things out and start new?
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The biggest challenge with that is that the factory setup puts the starter on the passenger side and the bellhousing is quite large with a larger clutch. It's not impossible, but it's not easy either and would require significant firewall and suspension modification as the passenger side starter interferes with the torsion bar as I understand it. You can keep the engine and transmission, but you'd probably be better off swapping out pretty much all the parts between them. The throwout bearing may be okay to keep, but you'd need a new flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, and bellhousing that uses a 10.5" clutch.
 
I'm planning an aftermarket k member so I don't think the torsion bar will be a problem. I assume the bellhousing on the 2010 Challenger is much bigger than the QuickTime recommended in this thread? Is that the main difference?
 
payneinthe said:
I'm planning an aftermarket k member so I don't think the torsion bar will be a problem. I assume the bellhousing on the 2010 Challenger is much bigger than the QuickTime recommended in this thread? Is that the main difference?
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Okay, you'd be good on the suspension front then at least. Not sure what exhaust clearance is like with a passenger side starter, but I guess if it fits on the driver side with steering as well that you could make something work. I believe the factory clutch is something like 11"+, so the bellhousing just stays "fatter" for a longer distance whereas the small block style tapers down quicker. They both have the same bolt pattern for attaching to the block, so they can't be too wildly different in overall diameter. I think the Challenger setup might be a dual disk clutch as well, so it may be longer which could be more the issue than diameter.
 
I know the best plan of action is to mock up the engine/trans in the car, but I'm trying to get ahead of the game and have a rough action plan by the time I get there. I'm trying to figure out roughly where the rear mounting location for the trans is going to be. With the factory clutch cover, I'm measuring 23.25" from the bellhousing face to the mounting bolts on the trans. The /6 727 that came out of it measures 23.5" but I'm not sure how the /6 positioning compares to the small block/gen3 hemi positioning. Any idea whether the front-to-back positioning will line up with the existing x-member? What about height? Will the TR6060 need to sit lower or higher than the 727?
 
Get your engine mounted in the frontend and mock it up in the car and you will see where everything hits. My rear crossmember (same engine and trans as yours) goes back into the same spot but you will have to cut up the cross bracing and floorpan to make room for the trans to go upward.
Here are some pics as I cut up a done car to go Hemi! My work isn't the neatest but it worked out in the end.
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I like what you did with that console. That's slick and gives it a nice modern feel. Curious to see how it all comes together.
 
Map63Vette said:
I like what you did with that console. That's slick and gives it a nice modern feel. Curious to see how it all comes together.
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Thanks, it has had some other updates since that pic.
Not to high jack this thread but I bought this car over in your neck of the woods a few years ago. I used to be yellow and ran at KCIR until Claire shut it down.
 
Dragger40 said:
Thanks, it has had some other updates since that pic.
Not to high jack this thread but I bought this car over in your neck of the woods a few years ago. I used to be yellow and ran at KCIR until Claire shut it down.
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Ah, that's neat. I've been out there a few times, but it's been quite a while. Ran my motorcycle back and 71 Vette there for the high school drags (though I was in college at the time, so alumni drags I guess?). You ever make it to any of the club stuff or shows around here? Might be cool to meet up sometime.
 
I make it to the occasional swap meet.
Operation Octain is over at the speedway on June 24th. We thought about coming over to watch the carnage. It looks like fun.
 
OK it's my turn to have some clutch related issues. I've read through the troubles @Map63Vette has had and also @72BBSwinger said to try. The shop bled the master and the TOB and it's still not releasing. I have a 0.500" spacer in there. I haven't tried much but the shop is suggesting to add more to the rod and see if it can be pushed in more.

I'm going to see about re-bleeding it all, then move to longer rod, then finally (hope I don't have to go here), removing the trans and checking it.

Riddler
 
Riddler said:
OK it's my turn to have some clutch related issues. I've read through the troubles @Map63Vette has had and also @72BBSwinger said to try. The shop bled the master and the TOB and it's still not releasing. I have a 0.500" spacer in there. I haven't tried much but the shop is suggesting to add more to the rod and see if it can be pushed in more.

I'm going to see about re-bleeding it all, then move to longer rod, then finally (hope I don't have to go here), removing the trans and checking it.

Riddler
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When I bled my (stock challenger) master, I wasn't getting any pedal either. I read online somewhere that you may have to pump the pedal a couple hundred times to get any pressure. I think I pumped the pedal about 150 times before I got any pressure but I did finally get it to bleed!
 
Riddler said:
OK it's my turn to have some clutch related issues. I've read through the troubles @Map63Vette has had and also @72BBSwinger said to try. The shop bled the master and the TOB and it's still not releasing. I have a 0.500" spacer in there. I haven't tried much but the shop is suggesting to add more to the rod and see if it can be pushed in more.

I'm going to see about re-bleeding it all, then move to longer rod, then finally (hope I don't have to go here), removing the trans and checking it.

Riddler
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Disconnect the master cylinder at the clutch pedal. Manually move the master cylinder rod in and out fully, this should help it bleed. I had to do this on my jeep. Clutch pedal didn't allow for a long enough stroke to get the air fully out of the system
 
I'll check that out tomorrow. I recall not being able to push the rod in as it was tough to do. I was thinking of having a friend pump the pedal and I'll bleed the master and then bleed the TOB and see where it's at.

After that I only have 2 options, extend the rod or add more shims..

Riddler
 
Master cylinders (of any kind, brake or clutch) should be bench bled before they’re installed in the car. Dukeboy318 hit the nail on the head, usually the pedal won’t bottom out the master cylinder, which means it can be almost impossible to bleed all the air out of the master cylinder when in the car.
 
Anyone using the VSS on a viper trans to send a signal to a gauge? How are you getting a 5v power?

Is anyone using a micro processor to utilize the reverse lockout unit?

Riddler
 
I've been working on using the stock VSS to drive the original mechanical gauge for the better part of two years now as a side project (and because I'm stubborn). Have gone through about 4 or 5 iterations on the design and think I finally have one I like, but naturally it appears my VSS has died now that I'm ready to try it out. I have a Raspberry Pi mounted under the dash with a screen as a secondary gauge cluster and to allow tweaking things with my Megasquirt setup. I wrote a problem that runs on it to take the pulses that come out of the VSS to run a small motor attached to the back of the speedo with a 3D printed mount. Had it working on a table with a signal generator, but have not gotten it to work in the car as my VSS doesn't appear to be working anymore. I don't really feel like buying a Dodge replacement as they are something like $120, but I've heard a rumor it's just a Honeywell GT1 series sensor. I've been planning to take it out of the car to measure to see about ordering a generic replacement, but just never have gotten around to it yet.

The main challenge has been finding a motor strong enough to overcome the initial drag in the speedo mechanism. I could go super powered and just remote mount it with a cable, but I wanted a more elegant solution of a direct mounted motor if possible.
 
My gauge from NVU says it'll work with the Hall Effect sensor which the viper sensor is. It's a 3 wire sensor. I know I need to feed it 5v. But I'm working with Accutach using one of there reverse lockout boxes.

Riddler
 
Technically I could buy a CableX from Abbott industries (or something like that) which is exactly what I'm trying to build in a way. It's just a box that takes a VSS signal in that you connect the factory cable to if you want to run a mechanical gauge. I think the Viper unit is an open collector design. If you look at the factory wiring it's a bit odd as it has both 9v and 5v going to it on the harness when I checked my mom's 94 Viper. I think it does it this way for sensor error checking though. Something like it expects to see 5v at minimum to make sure the sensor is present, but reads the higher 9v signal as the actual pulse. That being said, it doesn't mean you have to run it that way. I've tried powering mine just about every way possible and I just don't get enough signal out of it, so I'm guessing I might have fried it from wiring it wrong or giving it too much juice.
 
Well the viper VSS is a Hall Effect type with 3 wires. a 5v+, a ground, and a VSS signal. I've got the pin outs for it. I need to get a signal for the gauge I have. The gauge uses pretty much any kind of signal.

I'm also running into another problem trying to get a reverse lockout box to work with the VSS signal.

Riddler
 
I never paid a lot of attention to this thread because I figured my Tremec TKO 600 was enough gear and torque capacity for my stroked 6.1 (now 392) Hemi 'Cuda. I do like the 6 speed in my Challenger Scat Pack and now have bought a 707hp/650tq Hellcrate motor for the Cuda, necessitating a beefier trans to go with it. I believe Tremec has a 6 speed called Magnum that will hold up to the HC Hemi. Can anyone provide any input on this? Is this pretty much the transmission you guys are talking about? I enlarged my tunnel for the TKO and sure hope it's enough to move on to the 6 speed. All input appreciated.
 
The way I understand it.... the Magnum is the "universal" aftermarket version of the TR6060. They have a speedo output, different mounting / shifter positions but other than that they are the same basic trans.
I have heard people say that one version or the other is tougher but I really don' know.
 
Cuda SRT8 said:
I never paid a lot of attention to this thread because I figured my Tremec TKO 600 was enough gear and torque capacity for my stroked 6.1 (now 392) Hemi 'Cuda. I do like the 6 speed in my Challenger Scat Pack and now have bought a 707hp/650tq Hellcrate motor for the Cuda, necessitating a beefier trans to go with it. I believe Tremec has a 6 speed called Magnum that will hold up to the HC Hemi. Can anyone provide any input on this? Is this pretty much the transmission you guys are talking about? I enlarged my tunnel for the TKO and sure hope it's enough to move on to the 6 speed. All input appreciated.
Click to expand...

The magnum t56 is rated for 700 ft/lbs of torque. The tunnel mods for the TKO will not be enough for the t56. The whole tunnel has to be remade for the T56, and the center of the crossmember has to be completely re-worked. It’s quite a bit more metal work than what is needed for a TKO.
 
Thanks guys. Yeah, I'm finding lots of info on the net, much of it conflicting. I even read somewhere that I can get a different gear set for the TKO that would bump it capable of 700+ ft lb.
This may be the most cost effective way to go, as I still think a single OD gear is all I would need, especially if I can get a .50 5th

I tend to be overkill in my mods, so when it came to making my TKO fit, I cut out the whole tunnel and cross member and create it all new. I think I'll research the stronger TKO gear set and then if that's not going to work, I'll start measuring the new tunnel vs the Magnum.
Thanks again you guys!
 
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