Guitar Jones
aka Angry Johnny
That is correct.
Weight Transfer and Suspensions
- Thread starter sefus
- Start date
-
SS spring cars with good clamping don't really need a snubber at all. We used the snubber as a door stop. The car will ride like crap on the street with the front segments all clamped together. Auto or 4 speed didn't matter, the snubber was never on the car.
You have to dial a ton of pinion angle into SS springs to get them to work properly at the track. That angle is not so hot for ever day driving. This is another area where Cal track style bars are superior.
Want proof the SS springs aren't that great, walk the pits at a national stock eliminator event. Look at what's under the mopars. If you found a set of SS springs on a car running really good, I'd be shocked.
I like the 40 year old, worn out stock springs with a cal tracks style set up. They work good. You need good shocks on both ends.
Another misconception, front end travel, where if a little is good, more is better. Not always the case.
You have to dial a ton of pinion angle into SS springs to get them to work properly at the track. That angle is not so hot for ever day driving. This is another area where Cal track style bars are superior.
Want proof the SS springs aren't that great, walk the pits at a national stock eliminator event. Look at what's under the mopars. If you found a set of SS springs on a car running really good, I'd be shocked.
I like the 40 year old, worn out stock springs with a cal tracks style set up. They work good. You need good shocks on both ends.
Another misconception, front end travel, where if a little is good, more is better. Not always the case.
mshred
The Green Manalishi
- Joined
- May 2, 2008
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im gonna stick with my poor man setup of adding a leaf to my stock springs and running the snubber...cheaper than xhd's and no point of buying the SS springs now since i already have the snubber...Would i be able to only add a leaf to the front segment of my springs so that i stiffen that part but dont increase the ride height?
Guitar Jones
aka Angry Johnny
In my opinion any leaf spring car including CalTracs aren't really that great. You can make them work to a point but they have to much wrap up and travel to be a really effective drag race suspension.
Poison Dart
Member
Guitar, I respectfully disagree with you and your assessment of Cal Tracs on Mopars. www.westcoastmopargang.com
I have a question to the general public here (ones leaveing posts) on what one thinks is a fast running car. Reason being, some are saying S/S springs are garbage. I disagree. But also wont argue on someone useing Cal Tracs since they are a decent set up.
Not picking on anybody here, but for example;
LOL, A newbie is about to out a 4 link in his 15 second Duster, Ha ha ha ha.
A noted good system. Were is the split where the Cal Tracs are a better system and at what level should one make the junp.
(LOL again, a newbie just ordered a set for his slant 6er.)
Theres nothing wrong with 40 year old tech, but I do acknowledge new tech.
The old tech works. New tech should work better.
Why is it some guys can run in the 9's with S/S springs and other guys can't muster a mid 11 while both cars a deadacaded track rides with claimed big power plants. (Take the engines power out of the problem given, this is just general)
Not for nothin, but sefus asked a very general question and some of the answers I'm reading I find a bit disturbing in that everyone makes there case as best. Best for what bracket and power level. Best for you maybe, but for him?
Sefus made a general statement of what he new as a basic and it's a good starting point. No mention on how fast he was running or what bracket he is competeing in or where he's going with it.
So what say you Sefus?
Not picking on anybody here, but for example;
When should someone move away with leaf springs?
LOL, A newbie is about to out a 4 link in his 15 second Duster, Ha ha ha ha.
A noted good system. Were is the split where the Cal Tracs are a better system and at what level should one make the junp.
(LOL again, a newbie just ordered a set for his slant 6er.)
Theres nothing wrong with 40 year old tech, but I do acknowledge new tech.
The old tech works. New tech should work better.
Why is it some guys can run in the 9's with S/S springs and other guys can't muster a mid 11 while both cars a deadacaded track rides with claimed big power plants. (Take the engines power out of the problem given, this is just general)
Not for nothin, but sefus asked a very general question and some of the answers I'm reading I find a bit disturbing in that everyone makes there case as best. Best for what bracket and power level. Best for you maybe, but for him?
Sefus made a general statement of what he new as a basic and it's a good starting point. No mention on how fast he was running or what bracket he is competeing in or where he's going with it.
So what say you Sefus?
I have seen the CalTracs work with stock springs and the so-called SS springs. They are a step up from the old slapper bars. That lowly pinion snubber has been one of the most efficient traction devices ever put on a car. They absolutely were used on the factory S/S cars WITH the SS springs! When I was with Ronnie Sox, he wouldn't race without one in that '68 Barracuda. You know that bad boy was a stick! The way Ronnie liked the rear was with those big ol' higher arched SS springs and an adjustable snubber set 1-inch away from the reinforced floor pan with him sitting in the car. He would heat the tires and give it a dry hop test by revving to around 5,000 rpm and giving the clutch a quick "snatch". From that little thing he knew the car was going to do its job. The snubber is very old technology but still worthy of respect. I used it on my Hemi Roadrunner 4-speed and Jake King engine. It works on a principle of physics: for every action there is a reaction, equal and opposite. When shock force is applied, the pinion tries to climb the ring gear but it is trapped in the housing and can't so the whole housing tries to twist nose upward. The snubber is mounted on that nose and when it contacts the floor pan spot, it pushes up. Whatever force prevails pushing the body up applies an equal pressure forcing the rearend and tires onto the pavement. This improves traction. The SS springs have a special leaf bias as well as more arch and they can ride like a buck board! The front half of the spring has more and stiffer spring leaves. They are very firm and do not wrap up and cause wheel hop. The front half of the spring then works similar to a ladder bar. As the pinion tries to rotate up, it is restrained by the spring, forcing the spring to lift the back of the car at the point of the front perch. Again, for every pound of force used to lift, an equal pound is reversly applied to the tires. For this reason, a lot of racers found the pinion snubber unnecessary and didn't use them. I saw a lot of guys put them back on when they went to tires like 14 x 32s!
You can get some advantage by making the front spring hanger adjustable and keep shims on hand to correct the pinion angle. A proper rear geometry will push as closely to the car's "instant center" as possible. You can draw an imaginary line from the tire contact point through the front spring eye and beyond to see just where it is pushing. Positioning the front spring eye lower moves the push on the instant center farther forward. All of this stuff is affordable and doable for most people racing leaf spring cars. Take a look at Poison Dart's pictures. That is a high dollar, high tech and well set up car! We should all have one of those!
It is important to know the center of gravity of your race car. The lateral CG is usually a line going down the side of the car from the ground to the cam centerline. The vertical CG can be found with scales or you could use my crude but effective method: Use a floor jack on each side and move them until you find the "teeter-totter" balance. You can mark it on the door with a piece of tape. Now you know the "magic" push spot. I'll explain the mechanical advantage of this and then I'll shut up: Pretend your car is a refrigerator and you stand it up on the back bumper. You want to push it back to the wall so where do you push it? Push below the CG and your feet will slip and the "frige" doesnt move. Push towards the top and leverage force diminishes. But push anywhere near that center of gravity and the "frige" is easily moved; force accomplishes work. Now put the car back down on all four paws...the principle is the same.
Ladder bars can really work but the ultimate is the four link. I have seen a lot of racers use both with absolutely no idea of how to set them and why.
Pat
You can get some advantage by making the front spring hanger adjustable and keep shims on hand to correct the pinion angle. A proper rear geometry will push as closely to the car's "instant center" as possible. You can draw an imaginary line from the tire contact point through the front spring eye and beyond to see just where it is pushing. Positioning the front spring eye lower moves the push on the instant center farther forward. All of this stuff is affordable and doable for most people racing leaf spring cars. Take a look at Poison Dart's pictures. That is a high dollar, high tech and well set up car! We should all have one of those!
It is important to know the center of gravity of your race car. The lateral CG is usually a line going down the side of the car from the ground to the cam centerline. The vertical CG can be found with scales or you could use my crude but effective method: Use a floor jack on each side and move them until you find the "teeter-totter" balance. You can mark it on the door with a piece of tape. Now you know the "magic" push spot. I'll explain the mechanical advantage of this and then I'll shut up: Pretend your car is a refrigerator and you stand it up on the back bumper. You want to push it back to the wall so where do you push it? Push below the CG and your feet will slip and the "frige" doesnt move. Push towards the top and leverage force diminishes. But push anywhere near that center of gravity and the "frige" is easily moved; force accomplishes work. Now put the car back down on all four paws...the principle is the same.
Ladder bars can really work but the ultimate is the four link. I have seen a lot of racers use both with absolutely no idea of how to set them and why.
Pat
Guitar Jones
aka Angry Johnny
My assessment is based on my experience. Yes you can go fast on leafs with or without CalTracs if you want to put the work into that setup but you still end up with limited adjustability. Now if you run only at good race tracks then that isn't a problem. If you run at tracks that are only marginal then you are going to have problems possibly even if your car is only a 13 second ride.
Now I'm not advocating four linking a 13 or even a 12 second car but if you are running in the 10 second range or faster I'd say you are probably a pretty serious racer, at that point you need to assess your combination and the tracks you are going to run at, are you going to be serious about your racing operation or is it only a part time once in awhile thing. If you're running for points at your local track and wanting to go to the division finals then it's more than just a funtime hobby and you should be getting serious about your car. Just because you can go 9's on CalTracs at good tracks doesn't make it a good suspension system. There are two reasons I say this.
1. Most leaf spring cars are limited in tire size, on a marginal track the tire size is all important. The more rubber on the ground the better the chance of limiting tire spin.
2. Spring, axle and body movement. The more you minimize this the quicker the car will be. Instead of the suspension taking all that time to work, that movement could be transferred into making the car move forward.
I respect all your opinions but there really isn't any arguement that a four link is the best suspension and the wider the tire the better the traction.
In the end you have to assess your situation and your expectations.
Now I'm not advocating four linking a 13 or even a 12 second car but if you are running in the 10 second range or faster I'd say you are probably a pretty serious racer, at that point you need to assess your combination and the tracks you are going to run at, are you going to be serious about your racing operation or is it only a part time once in awhile thing. If you're running for points at your local track and wanting to go to the division finals then it's more than just a funtime hobby and you should be getting serious about your car. Just because you can go 9's on CalTracs at good tracks doesn't make it a good suspension system. There are two reasons I say this.
1. Most leaf spring cars are limited in tire size, on a marginal track the tire size is all important. The more rubber on the ground the better the chance of limiting tire spin.
2. Spring, axle and body movement. The more you minimize this the quicker the car will be. Instead of the suspension taking all that time to work, that movement could be transferred into making the car move forward.
I respect all your opinions but there really isn't any arguement that a four link is the best suspension and the wider the tire the better the traction.
In the end you have to assess your situation and your expectations.
Poison Dart
Member
PFogel, you are right on track. Also, Ronnie Sox was my hero. Below is a picture of my 1969 Roadrunner that I bought new and made a race car out of. (I still have the car). Think it looks a little like a Sox and Martin Car???? ha ha.
I am also attaching the National Records from 1969. You will notice that Ronnie Sox held the SS/A record at 10.23. I understand that a lot of things have changed since then, but as an example, my engine builder, Steve Wann holds the SS/IA record in a 69 Barracuda, with a 383 with a 625 AVS carburater, at 9.53.....with Cal Tracs, Cal Trac split leafs, and 9 inch tires.
Here is the misconception that I believe most people have, and I think you covered part of it. "Super Stock springs plant the tires". Well, they do, by pushing or separating the rear end from the body. This is wasted inertia. Visualize this: absolutely solid rear suspension in which it will not move up or down. Now a Cal Trac system installed. On a launch, instead of lifting the rear end up, the inertia goes to the front of the spring and is amplified with the Cal Tracs, thus providing more front end lift. Now, we understand that we have to have some spring, so that is why I recommend that a good, adjustable rear shock (I use Rancho 9000) be used. Start on the firmest setting, then adjust from there. Cal Tracs with firm shocks are very similiar to 4 link or ladder bars, except the "lever action" on the front of the Cal Trac gives more lift. One more think, then I will shut up. Cal Tracs are easily adjusted, but most of us adjust the shocks to track conditions. Slick track, loosen the shock..........it hurts the 60' but not as bad as spinning.
Best of luck with whatever suspension you use.
Gary Hansen
![1970_S_RECORD_HOLDERS%20copy[1].jpg](https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/attachments/1970_s_record_holders-20copy-1-jpg.76161/ "1970_S_RECORD_HOLDERS%20copy[1].jpg")
![9057-043_std[1].jpg](https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/attachments/9057-043_std-1-jpg.76162/ "9057-043_std[1].jpg")
I am also attaching the National Records from 1969. You will notice that Ronnie Sox held the SS/A record at 10.23. I understand that a lot of things have changed since then, but as an example, my engine builder, Steve Wann holds the SS/IA record in a 69 Barracuda, with a 383 with a 625 AVS carburater, at 9.53.....with Cal Tracs, Cal Trac split leafs, and 9 inch tires.
Here is the misconception that I believe most people have, and I think you covered part of it. "Super Stock springs plant the tires". Well, they do, by pushing or separating the rear end from the body. This is wasted inertia. Visualize this: absolutely solid rear suspension in which it will not move up or down. Now a Cal Trac system installed. On a launch, instead of lifting the rear end up, the inertia goes to the front of the spring and is amplified with the Cal Tracs, thus providing more front end lift. Now, we understand that we have to have some spring, so that is why I recommend that a good, adjustable rear shock (I use Rancho 9000) be used. Start on the firmest setting, then adjust from there. Cal Tracs with firm shocks are very similiar to 4 link or ladder bars, except the "lever action" on the front of the Cal Trac gives more lift. One more think, then I will shut up. Cal Tracs are easily adjusted, but most of us adjust the shocks to track conditions. Slick track, loosen the shock..........it hurts the 60' but not as bad as spinning.
Best of luck with whatever suspension you use.
Gary Hansen
Guitar Jones
aka Angry Johnny
Pat was absolutely correct and explained it very well.
Gary, I think you just proved my point. While CalTracs do work and work well on a good track (setting a record) and having to soften the rear shocks at slippery tracks. The problem is while the car may work well during the day, later the track will go away and then you are spinning the tires. Not good for someone that needs consistency run after run. Running a high dollar bracket race with a lot cars will force you to race under differing and unknown track conditions over the course of a day and/or night.
It all boils down to how serious you are about your racing and the conditions you will be racing under. A big tire 4 link car will be more tolerant of changing track conditions. If I only raced at NHRA division or national events I wouldn't be too concerned about the track condition. However if I pull into a backwoods 1/8 mile track I don't know what to expect.
Gary, I think you just proved my point. While CalTracs do work and work well on a good track (setting a record) and having to soften the rear shocks at slippery tracks. The problem is while the car may work well during the day, later the track will go away and then you are spinning the tires. Not good for someone that needs consistency run after run. Running a high dollar bracket race with a lot cars will force you to race under differing and unknown track conditions over the course of a day and/or night.
It all boils down to how serious you are about your racing and the conditions you will be racing under. A big tire 4 link car will be more tolerant of changing track conditions. If I only raced at NHRA division or national events I wouldn't be too concerned about the track condition. However if I pull into a backwoods 1/8 mile track I don't know what to expect.
Gary, you have totally awesome cars! Ronnie would have loved them. I'm going to get Snapfish to make me some nice copies for my office wall. I am so impressed with most of the members on this site. You and Guitar Jones have a lot of knowledge and communication skills. You benefit a lot of people when you can articulate information founded not just on science and logic but by actual, real world experiences. I would like you guys to check the thread "You got to see this" posted by my good friend FISHBREATH (another very knowledgeable and articulate FABO friend) and give me some feedback on my manifolds. You guys have my respect.
Pat
Pat
Guitar Jones
aka Angry Johnny
Pat, I have seen your manifold and I must say I am very impressed. You've got my utmost respect. I'd love to get together with you guys sometime which is why I suggested to flboatman that us Florida racers should get together sometime.
flboatman1
Well-Known Member
WELL GUYS HERES FORM THE WORST SPELLER ON THE FORUM. GARY, I LOVE THAT CAR OF YOURS .! I'M GLAD I GO BY THE NAME flboatman1 BECAUSE MY REAL NAME IS GARY HANSEN, HOW ABOUT THAT ONE. GUITAR IS RIGHT WE NEED TO FORM A GROUP OF MOPAR RACERS FROM FL. WE NEED TO BRING A LIFE BACK IN THE SPORT OF DRAG RACING. IT GETS VERY BORING AT MOST TRACKS WHEN EVERY RACE IS BETWEEN A MUSTANG AND A NOVA OR CAMERO. AND THEN ON COME THE JAP SCRAP. FAST LITTLE BUGGERS. IT MAY TAKE A LITTLE BIT OF TIME AND EFFORT BUT IT WILL BE WORTH IT. I BELEAVE GUITAR JONES IS RACING THIS SAT AT ORLANDO SPEED WORLD. STOP AND SAY HI, IF YOU ARE THERE, AND TELL HIM HI FROM GARY AND GET THAT SCAMP FINISHED KNOW!!!! I WILL TRI TO BE AT LAKELAND SAT. NIGHT , I HERT MY RT KNEE SUN MORN AND RT ARM WHEN DOBERMEN TOOK OFF ON A FULL PASS AFTER A SQERAL I WASN'T WATCHING AND WHEN SEE HIT THE END LEAD LINE I FELL TO GROUND AND THE OLD BOONES COULDN'T TAKE THE BEATING. IF I'M THERE. I HAVE THE YELLOW 72 DART #0560 STOP AND LETS TALK THANKS FLBOATMAN1.:toothy7:
Thanks guys, flboatman1, you know you can't keep up with a dobie! Hope you aren't hurtin' too bad. I would like to see you guys at Lakeland sometime but it won't be this weekend. I'm leaving with Garlits Wed. night for Virginia Motorsports Park in Richmond and we won't be back until late Monday. We plan to take Swamp Rat V or VIII to the reunion and old fueler cacklefest. Should be fun! I hope I get to do some parking lot burnouts in the Hemi Challenger when we get back.
Pat
Pat
There's no science in this car.It's just a fun car to drive.
We put the car on a diet.
Lost weight up front-Light weight engine parts.
No powersteering no powerbrakes.
This made the front of the car lighter than a /6 car by 17 pounds.
518 lbs for the 440 compared to 525 for a /6.
steel wheels up front.
72 340 springs out back.
hoosiers QT Pro's for tire's.
We adjust for traction with limiters up front.
Sub frame conectors.
7 point rollbar.
worn out shocks up front.
KYB's out back.
The car runs 11.70's off the juice and 60 ft times in the 1.60's
And yes this is a hobby car,We call it are parts car.
Just left over parts.
But we drive it more than are other cars it just fun to drive.
It has all the safety equipment to 10 flat.
It just has 50 year old technoligy.
Cost $2 a pass.
Engine with alum parts
Car at the strip.
Diver Jon.Son.
We put the car on a diet.
Lost weight up front-Light weight engine parts.
No powersteering no powerbrakes.
This made the front of the car lighter than a /6 car by 17 pounds.
518 lbs for the 440 compared to 525 for a /6.
steel wheels up front.
72 340 springs out back.
hoosiers QT Pro's for tire's.
We adjust for traction with limiters up front.
Sub frame conectors.
7 point rollbar.
worn out shocks up front.
KYB's out back.
The car runs 11.70's off the juice and 60 ft times in the 1.60's
And yes this is a hobby car,We call it are parts car.
Just left over parts.
But we drive it more than are other cars it just fun to drive.
It has all the safety equipment to 10 flat.
It just has 50 year old technoligy.
Cost $2 a pass.
Engine with alum parts
Car at the strip.
Diver Jon.Son.
Forgot to say in last post it has Schumacher headers and fuul exhaust.
Nobody here has said anything about ladder bar set ups.
Easier for a hobbiest racer to tune and keep in tune.
Eisier to 4 corner scale and set up on scales.
Car 60 fts in the low 1.20's.
Love this pic.
Real pic
Car launching.
Nobody here has said anything about ladder bar set ups.
Easier for a hobbiest racer to tune and keep in tune.
Eisier to 4 corner scale and set up on scales.
Car 60 fts in the low 1.20's.
Love this pic.
Real pic
Car launching.
wigsplitter74
The Mopar Kid
So just a question I have that I've never really heard what to do. How do I know where about I should clamp my SS springs?? Is there like a standard rule of thumb on this or what? Thanks.
Guitar Jones
aka Angry Johnny
No real standard you'll just have to try and test to see if it helps your car or hurts it.
Guitar Jones
aka Angry Johnny
Ladder bars do work but their adjustability is limited. They tend to hit the tires really hard because of the short leverage action. They also will bind in a street situation if you drive your car on the street.
My opinion is if you are going to spend the money to put ladder bars on your car why not just save a couple hundred dollars more and put the 4 link in there?
Besides if you are going with ladder bars you don't need to 4 corner scale the car, it's not a roundy round car. Quite frankly I don't see the need to 4 corner scale the car at all.
perfacar
Well-Known Member
hi in reference to your not liking caltracs setup, they do WORK very well on marginal tracks and good tracks. it boils down to how smart you are to make things work. if 600 hp is the limit, then maybe aa/s and a/s should not go fast. wanns b.cuda seems to work very well, as do rest of stockers and some super stockers that use caltrac system. I run at marginal and good tracks. i can 60' at them all. just requires shock setting and launch rpm. a 4 link requires a lot of torque to make them work, like a trans brake! with a 4 link better go to suspension school . they are not an easy setup to make work .
plus i notice there is never a price gvin out on installing a 4 link. they have to be done at a chassis shop usually. caltracs can be bolted on in your garage.
plus i notice there is never a price gvin out on installing a 4 link. they have to be done at a chassis shop usually. caltracs can be bolted on in your garage.
flboatman1
Well-Known Member
Here I GO AGAIN, BUT I HAVE SEEN BUILT UP STOCK SUPN, BEAT BOTH LADDER AND 4 LINK. ON TRACK. THE MOST CONSISTANT IS THE STOCK STYLE SUPN.SO PUT 2000.00 OR SO IN A 4 LINK OR ALTERD SUPN. OR DO MULTI LEAF RACING SPRINS MOVE INWARD FOR TIRE CLEARANCE . ADJ. SHOCKS AND ADJ. SNUBBER 350.00 AND IF THAT DOES'T WORK SPEND SPEND SPEND! THE THING IS WHAT LOOK DO YOU WANT. I DONT THINK THERE IS TO MANY OF US A BODY RACERS GOING FASTER THAN 6.0 IN1/8 OR 10.O 1/4 WITH SMALL BLOCKS, SAVE AND GO RACING. THE SPECTATERS CAN'T SEE THE REAR END FROM BLEECHERS. JUST REMEMBER THAT MOST PEOPLE CUT A .4/5 LIGHT LEARN THE LIGHTS AND CUT A .003 WHAT DOSE THAT TELL YOU. IF YOU RUN A ALTERD CHASSIES 4 LINK YES. STOCK STYLE STOCK SUPN. OH WHAT DO I KNOW I JUST STARTED DRAG RACING IN 1958 BOY IM OLD AND DUMB , WHAT THE HELL IS A CAL TRAC. I'LL BET ITS A ROAD IN CALIFORNIA THAT WAGON TRAINS TRAVAL ON. OR MAYBE A TRAIN? ASSK HOLE GARY HE KNOWS!! GOOD LUCK
Guitar Jones
aka Angry Johnny
So I guess I'm taking the wrong approach here. I'll try again.
Yes Cal Tracs and SS springs are the best suspension systems ever devised. Everybody should use them, in fact I hope all you guys get busy and put them on your cars right away and I meet in you in the semi final round after midnight, after the dew point has been reached and the track has gone cold. Then while you're spinning your tires and unable to run your dial in I'll be leaving same as usual and probably be dead on again. But hey I guess I'm not smart enough to run Cal Tracs like you guys. Have fun!
I don't race for fun, (although it is fun) I race to win races because it's more fun winning than losing. So I'm going to take any variable out of the equation that I can. I don't need the car screwing up, I do that enough myself. BTW in the group of guys I race with we have 3 cars with Cal Tracs, (one is mine) one is a stocker, and 2 cars with 4 links, (one is mine) so it's not like I'm talking out of my *** here, I have real world experience with both types, I have driven all these cars except my Scamp because it's not done yet, and I know how to set them up and how they react.
As for having to have a lot of power to make a 4 link work, that's not true. Have you looked under a 2004 or up Durango or a new 09 Ram 1500? Yep, they have a four link type suspension. The altered I drive probably doesn't even make 300 HP, but it's light so it's still pretty quick.
You guys have to make your own determination as to what's best for you, but for me I already know the answer.
Yes Cal Tracs and SS springs are the best suspension systems ever devised. Everybody should use them, in fact I hope all you guys get busy and put them on your cars right away and I meet in you in the semi final round after midnight, after the dew point has been reached and the track has gone cold. Then while you're spinning your tires and unable to run your dial in I'll be leaving same as usual and probably be dead on again. But hey I guess I'm not smart enough to run Cal Tracs like you guys. Have fun!
I don't race for fun, (although it is fun) I race to win races because it's more fun winning than losing. So I'm going to take any variable out of the equation that I can. I don't need the car screwing up, I do that enough myself. BTW in the group of guys I race with we have 3 cars with Cal Tracs, (one is mine) one is a stocker, and 2 cars with 4 links, (one is mine) so it's not like I'm talking out of my *** here, I have real world experience with both types, I have driven all these cars except my Scamp because it's not done yet, and I know how to set them up and how they react.
As for having to have a lot of power to make a 4 link work, that's not true. Have you looked under a 2004 or up Durango or a new 09 Ram 1500? Yep, they have a four link type suspension. The altered I drive probably doesn't even make 300 HP, but it's light so it's still pretty quick.
You guys have to make your own determination as to what's best for you, but for me I already know the answer.
It's all about budget, suspension knowledge and how fast you going.
A 4 link is an absolute waste on an 11 second and most 10 second rides IMO.
People can argue what's the best set up and then show an example of something that's outside the norm. 7 -8 sec cal track cars. I can show you some 12 second 4 link cars... I had a ladder bar car that would hook in a sandbox. Ran it on some of the dirtiest street in the area and it never missed a beat. Went to the track on a day that people complained about track prep and stood it on the bumper. Could a 4 link do that, sure, but, my car worked!
The OP has a streetish ride and 4 link is probably not the right choice for it. He mentions SS springs so cal tracks aren't going to be a really viable option.
A 4 link is an absolute waste on an 11 second and most 10 second rides IMO.
People can argue what's the best set up and then show an example of something that's outside the norm. 7 -8 sec cal track cars. I can show you some 12 second 4 link cars... I had a ladder bar car that would hook in a sandbox. Ran it on some of the dirtiest street in the area and it never missed a beat. Went to the track on a day that people complained about track prep and stood it on the bumper. Could a 4 link do that, sure, but, my car worked!
The OP has a streetish ride and 4 link is probably not the right choice for it. He mentions SS springs so cal tracks aren't going to be a really viable option.
Guitar Jones
aka Angry Johnny
Actually the OP asked a general question and wanted know what everyone had to say about the old and new(er) stuff. My personal opinion and it's strictly that, my opinion, is that most of you guys spend a bunch of money on the engine and then the car doesn't hook anymore and you wonder why. The money should be spent on the suspension first, then the engine will come. You can go faster with a good chassis and a so so engine then you can with a good engine and a so so chassis. Wake up people! The chassis is the foundation of your car, not the engine. Would you build a great big beautiful house on a foundation of sand? Hell no, so why build a good engine and put it in a limited chassis? It just doesn't make sense. It's cheaper to have a first class chassis then it is to build a 600+ horse engine. And if you have the foundation you can always do the engine later, the chassis will be there for you. Most novice racers go about this bass ackwards.
But whatever, I'll be looking to pair up with those Cal Trac cars in the late rounds so I can go to the finals. Do you want to win or not?
But whatever, I'll be looking to pair up with those Cal Trac cars in the late rounds so I can go to the finals. Do you want to win or not?
496dart
future prostock driver
the front segments, just look at them and see where the leaves might separate. I think my SS springs also have 1 on each side right by the shocks, on the rear seg.
However, i need to re-test these with my converter change.
I tried what Shawn Jennings did on his car. He was going 9.0's on SS springs and truck shocks. his name is 572 over on moparts--his website is currently down and has some good info on spring clamps.
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