I appreciate this info. I am still new at this so I am grateful for the input. As far as reversion goes, I planned on putting a 6.4 non mds cam in my 5.7 along with tti headers. I do have a 355 sure grip I could run but I don't have anything steeper than that. This will mostly be a pro-touring highway car so I do want optimal fuel mileage.You better hope you don't!, and hope you don't accidentally try, because that little 20 tooth gear will blow up, and possibly take the rest of the trans with it.
>But it gets worse; if the trans blows up at a buck whatever, it could lock the trans up solid, and if you don't clutch it fast enough, you could be
"upside down, backwards, and on fire" as John Force once said.
>But it gets even worse. If you break it at WOT, you better have a rev-limiter, cuz your revs will climb so fast, you may never get your foot off the gas fast enough to not do engine damage, When the valve-springs lose it, the lifters will pump up, and it's entirely possible that the valves will get a ****-kicking from the pistons; and that would cost you an engine.
Like I said; notta chance would I run that trans in your application. You are just inviting catastrophe.
I broke three of those in about a year, all on the street, and without any traction aide, other than the SureGrip and those lousy BFGs that everybody likes to rag on.
One of those A833od's, I busted with a low-compression factory 1973 318, with nothing but a 4bbl and headers........ and it wasn't even at WOT
Any factory Mopar 4-speed will fit into that OD bellhouse with just a machined centering ring installed on the retainer. I swapped at least one example of every 1x23 A833 trans into that opening that Mopar ever built, and multiple times. I got so good at swapping, my record is 17 minutes on a 4-post hoist, and that includes dropping the 3" duals and the GVod. Badaboom. and unless you got a small output shaft on your od box, they all use the same driveshaft, shifter, and X-member.
I get that you have a budget, but IMO, for you, the risks for catastrophe are just too high.
BTW, the right gears to run .73od are, IMO, 3.73s minimum. Running with 3.23s will get you down to 65=1900.. It doesn't take a big cam to still be in reversion at 1900, so, don't be expecting fantastic fuel-economy. To go 93 in the Eighth, I run a 230/237/110 cam, and reversion cleans up by 2400. At 2000, it ain't all that bad, but, my current combo gets the same fuel-mileage at 2200 as it does at 2400, so I run 65=2240rpm, cuz I like 2240@65 lol. the engine is quiet, and seems happy. The slower you rev it, the more critical Cruize-timing will be. I run somewhere between 50 and 60 degrees, depending on terrain and weather. As always; your results may vary.
Just saying, what works for me, friend. Your results may vary. I'm not, as some will say, telling you what you gotta do. Just offering what has worked for me, and trying to save you grief, cuz I already blew a lotta stuff up .
Who has done a 5.7 with a833 4 speed Overdrive ?
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What did you use for a bell housing? Picked up the 4 speed from my buddy today. 1975 case..no bellhousing with the larger retainment bearing shaft hole. I see Lakewood makes one for $409 but couldnt find anything other options.
DionR
Well-Known Member
A stock bellhousing will bolt up the the Hemi, minus one hole (top middle) that is missing on the Hemi block. So you just need to find an LA OD bellhousing.
Note that a conversion flywheel is still needed.
Note that a conversion flywheel is still needed.
The small block OD bellhousing with the large retainer is an endangered species. lol I did find one in Oregon for $400 shipped.
DionR
Well-Known Member
I went to Brewer's to post a link to one for you and they were sold out. So I believe it. In fact, they didn't have much of anything available and the one they did have that would have been useful (but still not OD) was $500.
Yeah that was my findings too at Brewers. I just bought the one from Oregon.
I bought some TTI engine mounts and plan to use their headers as well. After reading a ton of threads and research I'm still not sure what the best oil pan option is. The Holley pan seems like the gold standard and the best for preventing leaks because its a rigid cast aluminum. I know other options like Milodon and Charlies are good too. Then theres Jegs.. What would you do?
DionR
Well-Known Member
I bought the Holley pan partly because it frustrated me that Milodon listed all the parts separate and in the end cost more. I can understand listing parts separate like maybe the windage tray, but the gasket and pickup at least should be part of the kit. Add that I read several complaints about weld leaks and such.
That said, I do like the pro-touring pan option Milodon has. No idea how the Holley pan works for autocrossing, but I don't remember complaints so maybe it is a fix for something that isn't broken.
The one unknown for me is if the sump location on the Holley pan has issues with the centerlink when the motor is in the stock location. @Dantra did a 6.4 into his Dart with the Holley pan and his motor is like 5/8" forward and I don't remember him having issues. But since the pan was designed by Holley and they move the motor forward, they might not have left room for the centerlink if the motor is back from their location.
I am hopefully only days away from dropping a mockup motor into my '73 so maybe I will have a better answer at that point.
The 5/8 forward didn't save or destroy me, as far as steering clearance.. the only advantage was firewall to 6.4 intake clearance. In return, my header to Borgeson box clearance went mmbye bye. I switched to 73 up steering components, which cured 99.9 of all steering clearance issues. I still just barely touch at full right. I plan to add a stop after some suspension and brake upgrades, if needed. For now, I'm just conscious of it.
SOmething to note.. I did try setting the motor down low, for wiper motor clearance. If it were raised a little, the steering might squeak by. Plus spool mounts might set it a little different.
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DionR
Well-Known Member
How was clearance between the back of the sump and the side of the centerlink? Did Holley leave room for their pan to be used in the stock engine location?
The more I think about it, seems like others have used the Holley pan without their mounts. So probably not an issue.
I have used the Milodon pan on EVERY swap I've done. I have not had any issues with leaks. Aslo, on every one of these swaps, I have used the factory tray/gasket with great success. I saw absolutely no reason to use the gasket and tray from Milodon. Just the pan and pick up tube is the cost of the Holley pan. BUT, BUT, I haven't had the steering linkage issues with the Milodon pan. At the very extreme end of the lock, it does slightly contact the back of the sump. It's already at the end of travel, who cares. I like the integration that Holley has, and the o-ring style sealing. But the whole steering interfaces did it in for me. There's not many people sourcing true "BOLT ON" pieces for the gen 3. Those pieces do exist....
Great commentary, thats what I was factoring in. Holley makes it nice with the complete package for purchase so thats what I was leaning towards even though using those TTI mounts. From what I gathered since I have the 73 and up centerlink and linkage I might be ok for centerlink clearance. I will be curious to see how your mock-up of the motor drop in goes. Send me a pic when you find out.
Since I do have a 2013 truck engine I have the factory tray already so that answers another question I had! The one thing I like about the steel pan from Milodon over the cast aluminum from Holley is I can modify the pan a little easier if I have clearance issues with the centerlink. I'm curious to see how it sits in my 74 Duster with spool mounts too. I have a feeling I'll be good to go. Still just a bit nervous ordering the Holley pan using TTi mounts for reasons above. I might just keep waiting to see how Dion's mockup goes!
We did this swap in my son's 73 Scamp. TTI spool mounts and headers. Milodon pan as well. Like I stated earlier, at the very end of steering travel, drag link makes slight contact with pan. If you plan to auto-cross or drift, then it's a concern. When using the factory tray/gasket, make sure you RTV the four corners.
One other point I'm sure you're already aware of, but worth mentioning anyway, since you have a 2013 engine, make sure you get the appropriate pick up tube. They are different between the early(03-08) and VVT(09-present).
Ok will do. I'll go with the Milodon pan. Makes sense on the drag link making contact. Just a town ane highway car so should be fine. Thanks for the info, that helps a lot!
DionR
Well-Known Member
FYI, saw today that Milodon has a new kit for the G3 oilpan
#31000-1 for 2009+
#31000-2 for ‘03-‘08
Includes the pan, tray, pickup, gasket, bolts.
Looks like Summit shows the part, $450. But not available until 2/2025
#31000-1 for 2009+
#31000-2 for ‘03-‘08
Includes the pan, tray, pickup, gasket, bolts.
Looks like Summit shows the part, $450. But not available until 2/2025
Got to be kidding me. I just ordered everything including dipstick and it was $650.
Cancel.. You over payed. Given the choice, I'd still go with the Holley. I bump th pan at full right.. Just like the Milodon does. I prefer the cast.
Yea.. I'm running Schumacher. I moved 5/8 forward but it wouldn't have mattered if I stayed in stick location
Thanks for the info!
DionR
Well-Known Member
That picture of the idler hitting the pan is without tie rods and the steering stops are on the LBJ. So that might be further than the idler actually travels. Have you checked again with the steering completely assembled?
Barely taps with everything hooked up. I don't ever turn full lock anyway. But when I do a disc upgrade, I'll set the stops
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