318 1/8 time improvement

Mopar Racers Forum

  1. Slantsix64

    Slantsix64 Well-Known Member

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    Okay cool! Ya I hate this bog I’m going to try tightening the secondary spring to see if that helps
     
  2. Brooks James

    Brooks James Dustoff

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    Not necessary true I had t bars on my 340 clone with basically the same parts
    Exc posi and more intake and a 450 lift cam won’t say they cured the traction but they did hellp a lot !! I don’t care if they don’t work well and being old school
    I remember seeing bars on many card
    It was kind of a status symbol and on my 70 Dart will have chrome side pipes
    Chrome t bars, chrome bumpers, chrome
    Air cleaner, chrome bumblebee stripe, chrome valve covers, custom chrome dash with 20 gauges and so forth
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2021
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    • Garrett Ellison

      Garrett Ellison Amateur driver on public roadway, do not imitate.. FABO Gold Member

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      Do you have a fuel pressure gauge and regulator so you can set your fuel pressure between 6 to 6-1/2 PSI? The AVS2 650 is infamous for set up lean out of the box. The recommended float height is 7/16 and mine was set at 9/16 out of the box. I'm at 2500 feet of elevation and had to move the accelerator pump arm to the top and richen my primary metering rods, jets, and pump squirter. At your 250 feet or so of elevation, I imagine your probably going to need a lot of enrichment the over OOTB settings.
       
    • Slantsix64

      Slantsix64 Well-Known Member

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      Yes I dunno but I always adjust my carb at idle once the vacuum rises it’s highest, then out a .5 turn. But on this carb I reach the highest vacuum reading with the screws all the way in!. Is that telling me something?
       
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      • flyfish

        flyfish C8H18+N2O = :-D

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        Yes, back in the day I had traction bars on my 67 Barracuda for a short while because I thought they were "cool"....my car was also quite slow back then (16.5 at 9500' DA), so it made no difference in reality.

        To each their own...you do you...

        To the OP, I ran a simple snubber, worn out original springs, and cheap-o drag CE drag shocks down into the high 10's @ 122mph before stepping up to Cal-Tracs.....The slapper bars really don't do much. On a slow car all you really need is a mildly sticky tire and a decent shock.
         
      • 33IMP

        33IMP Well-Known Member

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        Agree with others above - fix the bog and get some good tires (note: tires, plural). Drag radials can be used daily but will wear out fast, best to get a set on spare wheels and use at the strip.
        Also a bog costs a huge amount of time, at the most critical end of the track. Take your timeslip, and run it thru wallace with the 60ft improved by .150 . You will see what it might run.
        Tune what you have before spending money throwing parts at it.
         
      • 33IMP

        33IMP Well-Known Member

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        According to wallace, you could.....
        Improve your 2.18 to 2.03, and you could run a 9.22, 73.76 eighth, good enough for high 14s at 90mph.
        You have 98.5% of that mph now. A tenth and a half better in 60ft can get three and a half tenths in an 1/8th, more in a quarter. I have seen just a good set of tires help a 60 ft way more than that.
         
      • Slantsix64

        Slantsix64 Well-Known Member

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        Here’s my plugs yup they don’t look good rich idle lean WOT ? Maybe I dunno

        D788E42D-68E8-46DB-8A1D-1CEC74B4F67D.jpeg

        EA0E456F-AFB2-42C9-AF09-73EFFC40090B.jpeg

        6FBA89EE-8D6B-448B-87AD-3A9B18F15E21.jpeg
         
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        • 33IMP

          33IMP Well-Known Member

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          Reading plugs for me is hard with unleaded gas, and i am certainly no good at it! That said, those look lean to me. That combined with a secondary door opening too soon could definitely give a nice big bog.
          However! I would make sure i had as much traction as i could get first! Inconsistent 60fts make tuning for power guesswork.
          I would find some cheap wheels (kinda hard to do, if you still have sbp) and some used slicks, and see what happens. The trouble is you have two causes of poor 60 ft's at the same time.
           
        • Hysteric

          Hysteric Well-Known Member

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          The Carter style carbs usually like 2.5 turns out or there abouts to start with. I would make sure the jetting is stock to start with before you move higher or lower on the jetting. When you go from park to drive it should only drop 50 rpm when the idle load setting is correct. If you need to turn the idle screws all the way in you have a problem some where.
           
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          • Hysteric

            Hysteric Well-Known Member

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            Its no different to leaded fuels. What leaves the colour on the plug is the carbon left over from the burn if the mixture is richer than stoich i.e richer than 14.7. The reason plugs remain white on the porcelain is the mixture there is very lean at time of ignition. When you improve the mixture "Quality" you can get the porcelain to colour as well. If the mixture isn't sufficiently compressed then the heat from ignition has to get it to a stage where it will burn and that takes a lot of the energy and the rest of the burn proceeds slower than it should and require more timing to get the pressure peak at the right place and time........
             
          • 318willrun

            318willrun Utube channel 318willrun

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          • Slantsix64

            Slantsix64 Well-Known Member

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            no, bought it new on summit
             
          • 318willrun

            318willrun Utube channel 318willrun

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            I would just slowly go through everything, and I'd start with initial timing first.
             
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            • Slantsix64

              Slantsix64 Well-Known Member

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              just verified 16 initial 18 mechanical 34 total
               
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              • Slantsix64

                Slantsix64 Well-Known Member

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                yes its stock currently
                 
              • Hysteric

                Hysteric Well-Known Member

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                Your timing seems reasonable. Set the Idle screws to 2.5 times out and start the engine and make sure the primary throttle blades are closed or close to that. What is the vacuum reading? You should pull a reasonable amount of vacuum considering the cam size and compression you have
                 
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                • Garrett Ellison

                  Garrett Ellison Amateur driver on public roadway, do not imitate.. FABO Gold Member

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                  You definitely get a fuel pressure gauge and and see what you show. I can almost guarantee that your float height is too low but you don't want to correct it if you have too much fuel pressure. A rich bog is just as bad as a lean bog for your 60 foot times. If your pressure is too high, get a regulator before setting float height. Then proceed to tuning your carb. It almost certainly has to be idling off of the transfer slots and possibly the boosters. When you finally get to where you can set the floats, you probably need to go ahead and the 8"HG primary metering metering rod springs, I imagine you have at least 16 inches of vacuum at idle. You should go ahead and get accelerator pump nozzle squirter kit #1475 and calibration kit 1948. I'm using an Edelbrock combination line and pressure gauge from eBay EDELBROCK/CARTER FUEL LINE WITH 0-15 PSI GAUGE WHITE FACE #2199/5711 | eBay
                   
                • 67Dart273

                  67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                  THIS!!! What you really need to do is have/ generate a performance curve, IE dyno, torque or HP curve, or a "performance meter" (like G tech) where you can measure accelleration and or time so you can get a curve.

                  If you can do so in 1st and 2nd (high likely too fast and get you "in trouble" off the track, but if you can do that you can factor in the gearing to "figure" high gear. That is use math regarding transmission ratios to convert the curve to the next ratio

                  Basically, if you have a complete HP curve, you overlap the curves for each gear and SHIFT WHERE THEY CROSS OVER

                  See below. Does not matter where this came from or what kind of machinery it's associated with. You can see that the gain in the previous gear is overlapped by the gain coming "on" in the next upcoming gear, and that the curve drop off in the previous is less than the next gear delivers

                  You can also see the big change in shift points RPM. The first one is down around 6300 but the last one is clear up around 6800, about a 500RPM difference. This is due to the relative change in transmission ratios between gears

                  12bolt-ShiftPoints.jpg
                   
                  Last edited: Apr 3, 2021
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                  • Slantsix64

                    Slantsix64 Well-Known Member

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                    So I actually put in some thinner metering rods 68x57 what came stock was 70x37 with .101 primaries. And it’s a lot smoother on the throttle. Although those metering rod and jet combo is not on the chart, I will go with what is on the chart richer in power mode which is .104 jet and .75 x.37
                     
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                    • RustyRatRod

                      RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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                      You can throw everybody's advice in the trash can, cept that fartknocker that posted in #2. Yeah. Listen to him. Cause a 318willrun.
                       
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                      • 318willrun

                        318willrun Utube channel 318willrun

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                        :lol: "fartknocker"
                         
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                        • Garrett Ellison

                          Garrett Ellison Amateur driver on public roadway, do not imitate.. FABO Gold Member

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                          Don’t touch anything except changing your primary metering rod springs to half your idle vacuum when you your fuel pressure and float height. Get that right before changing everything and go one step at a time from there by your Edelbrock directions. You can eventually tune out the “Edel-Bog”, but get your baseline operating parameters (fuel pressure/float height/metering rod spring tension) set first before going any farther. That part of the directions for setting up your carb is so critical it should be posted on the first page of the installation instructions.
                           
                        • Slantsix64

                          Slantsix64 Well-Known Member

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                          Update: The BOG is gone!! I jetted up the primaries to edelbrocks instructions from .101 to .104 at that time i checked the float level which was off a couple hairs. Fixed that at added the .73x37 rods and yup that bog is gone!!!. Still looking for my fuel pressure regulator going to install that as well.
                           
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                          • Garrett Ellison

                            Garrett Ellison Amateur driver on public roadway, do not imitate.. FABO Gold Member

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                            That's great! Do you have a gauge on it to confirm you need a regulator? If the bog is gone, it's possibly going to come back if you regulate your fuel pressure down. Excess fuel pressure could be holding causing the floats to close higher than they're supposed to. Dropping the pressure could drop your float height and have you tuning the bog back out. But I would rather have the fuel level running were it's supposed to and then tune the carb to optimum performance. Also, is it idling with the mixture screws turned out now?
                             
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