4 speed ka-booom !

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I agree with yellow rose on his recommendation for a Mcleod Soft Lok clutch setup -flywheel, sintered iron disc, and adjustable pressure plate. I struggled with 4-speed racing for quite some time, breaking this and that, missing shifts, etc...

In the end I was having success using the Soft Lok, Liberty pro shifted gears, and a reverse lockout on my Hurst shifter. And I still ran a braced 8-3/4, 4.86 pro gear without issue after breaking a bunch of stuff earlier. I would take the Soft Lok recommendation seriously. It's the only way to go IMO.
 
well like I said, I am running semi-synthetic 80/90 gear lube, valvoline durablend. and the trans. has the Liberty pro shift kit-no brass rings. and the 8 3/4 has a spool, mcleod long plate, 30# flywheel, 3000# car, 450 hp, for 20 years with 11" wide tire. learn to not drive like a gorilla
 
DC 340 said:
I agree with yellow rose on his recommendation for a Mcleod Soft Lok clutch setup -flywheel, sintered iron disc, and adjustable pressure plate. I struggled with 4-speed racing for quite some time, breaking this and that, missing shifts, etc...

In the end I was having success using the Soft Lok, Liberty pro shifted gears, and a reverse lockout on my Hurst shifter. And I still ran a braced 8-3/4, 4.86 pro gear without issue after breaking a bunch of stuff earlier. I would take the Soft Lok recommendation seriously. It's the only way to go IMO.
Click to expand...
I give consideration to all posts and am thankful for the time taken.
in the probly 100 post that were not mine could I have done what everybody says ?
 
I'm the weedburner guy with the screen door thing that yellow rose warned you about. I actually agree with him in general, but there's more than one way to get there. You don't need a SoftLoc.

The clutch is a key component that can completely eliminate a torque spike during launch. If you see the nose drop on a manual trans car in 1st gear before the shift, there’s probably something to be gained by tuning the clutch.

Here's how the typical drag launch goes with a manual trans...as soon as you dump the clutch, you can hear engine rpm drop. That's the sound of inertia energy exiting the rotating assy, creating a torque spike that's seen smashing the tires. As that torque spike dissipates and the engine starts gaining rpm again, the rear tires bounce back up and the front end drops. Now it's accelerating on engine power alone, without any boost from the torque spike. But it's not accelerating with as much power as it could, as some engine power is being fed back into the rotating assy as it gains rpm. Basically there was a temporary torque boost as rpm dropped, but that boost is paid back in full before the engine reaches it's original launch rpm. If the clutch had slipped just enough to carry the same rpm out until the car was going fast enough to match engine speed, launch would been smoother overall, slightly quicker with less wasted motion, less sensitive to shock settings, and that parts killing torque spike would be completely gone. You don't have to have a SoftLoc to achieve that.

My website explains how I eliminate the torque spike, you can find it here... ClutchTamer.com

You can also mount a small adjustable damper cylinder behind your throwout fork to achieve the same effect, it's just less convenient to adjust... http://www.airoil.com/v6/contents/en-us/p28.html

You need to have a clutch with plenty of capacity, but if you are killing parts now you probably already have that. An iron disc is nice, but not an absolute necessity.

Grant
 
Weedburner.
Where were you in 2004, when I needed you? I could have saved a lot of time and money.
Your device is now, what I needed then. I had figured out the theory, of putting down more average power at the start line, but my left foot was just not consistent enough to pull it off. My 52 year old brain, and left leg, at that time, were fully UN-coordinated,lol.Your device would have solved that aspect. Sadly, old-age is creeping up on my car, a little faster than on me, and I doubt I'll be visiting a track any time soon.
I wish you every success to sell a bazzilion of those devices!
 
j par said:
I give consideration to all posts and am thankful for the time taken.
in the probly 100 post that were not mine could I have done what everybody says ?
Click to expand...

Hi j par - Of course not. I simply wanted to relay my experience to you hoping it would help. Best of luck to you in your future racing. It is a blast racing a 4-speed. The first time I could leave the gas pedal on the floor the entire 1/4 mile was with the combo I outlined above. It was simply, like I said, a real blast to finally do that. : )
 
weedburner said:
I'm the weedburner guy with the screen door thing that yellow rose warned you about. I actually agree with him in general, but there's more than one way to get there. You don't need a SoftLoc.

The clutch is a key component that can completely eliminate a torque spike during launch. If you see the nose drop on a manual trans car in 1st gear before the shift, there’s probably something to be gained by tuning the clutch.

Here's how the typical drag launch goes with a manual trans...as soon as you dump the clutch, you can hear engine rpm drop. That's the sound of inertia energy exiting the rotating assy, creating a torque spike that's seen smashing the tires. As that torque spike dissipates and the engine starts gaining rpm again, the rear tires bounce back up and the front end drops. Now it's accelerating on engine power alone, without any boost from the torque spike. But it's not accelerating with as much power as it could, as some engine power is being fed back into the rotating assy as it gains rpm. Basically there was a temporary torque boost as rpm dropped, but that boost is paid back in full before the engine reaches it's original launch rpm. If the clutch had slipped just enough to carry the same rpm out until the car was going fast enough to match engine speed, launch would been smoother overall, slightly quicker with less wasted motion, less sensitive to shock settings, and that parts killing torque spike would be completely gone. You don't have to have a SoftLoc to achieve that.

My website explains how I eliminate the torque spike, you can find it here... ClutchTamer.com

You can also mount a small adjustable damper cylinder behind your throwout fork to achieve the same effect, it's just less convenient to adjust... http://www.airoil.com/v6/contents/en-us/p28.html

You need to have a clutch with plenty of capacity, but if you are killing parts now you probably already have that. An iron disc is nice, but not an absolute necessity.

Grant
Click to expand...
First off welcome to FABO !!!
I'm quite interested in Your product it seems pretty cool. Maybe we could work on getting a standard size for a 70-76 duster built instead of having to use a universal? :D
 
We need to keep the horse in front of the carriage !? I have a tranny in 93 pieces!! And a scattered rearend ! I hope the rebuild kit and parts will be here this week. In the meantime today after work I finished painting the cast parts for the transmission I had hot tanked. I finish taking the truck axles and brake assemblies off the Dana 60 that I bought, and I wire wheeled the rims for the 41 Studebaker so I can mount the new white walls I bought for it. We did make an attempt yesterday to get the flat 6 started. it turned over but no spark. It was quite exciting to see it turn over after 35 years though.View attachment 20151019_222225.jpg
 
Does your wife know you are bringing stuff into the kitchen?

Hey, I got a tip for you; Grab the tailhouse and slam it onto the case, but,upside-down.Align the cutout in the tail house, with the hole where the cluster-pin goes in. Do you see the interference? Do you know where I'm going? Hyup. If you spend just a few minutes with the die-grinder shaping the T-house, then the pin will slide right in.
To what purpose you ask? Well, It will save you a lot of frustration during the re-assy procedure.
I assemble the case with the cluster loaded(but without the pin), and reverse, and the loaded M/D in place.(I grease the washers to the case). I then stand the case on it's face, dropping the M/D into a hole in my benchtop, and letting gravity pull the M/D all the way down.Next I take a brass ring, and drop it onto the M/D.Next I push the cluster to the bottom of the case, as far away from the M/D as possible. Then I grab the loaded tailhouse in one hand, with its gasket lightly 3-M'ed on,and the 3-4 slider moved back almost all the way into 3rd, and insert the tail,upside down, through the back hole. With the other hand, I guide the M/S nose into the M/D and index that brass ring to the 3-4 struts. When indexed, I drop the tail all the way down, and align the tailhouse cutout with the cluster-pin hole. Then reach inside the case and gently pull the cluster into alignment, center the rear thrust washer and drop the pin in. Sometimes the front washer needs to be centered at this time.Then the woodruff-key, and drive the pin home.Finally,spin the T-house around (gently, so as not to damage the gasket), and bolt her up. And double finally, reach under the bench and push the M/D up so that the ring properly locates into the struts, and pull the slider down into neutral. The rest is yours.
If you try to assemble the 833 in the conventional way,(not standing on it's nose), You will have a lot of un-fun. It can be done, but I can almost hear the cussing from here, and if you bend that 4th gear brass, you won't know it until the roadtest. And there is room in the M/D cavity for two or three needle rollers to fit in there and you could never tell.
And don't use Vaseline to hold the needles in place, either.Unless,maybe,your garage is really cold.Naww not even then.
Well there you go, I gave up another secret.....
 
AJ/FormS said:
Does your wife know you are bringing stuff into the kitchen?
Click to expand...
It's actually the corner of the dining room. And the big tubs behind it contain the small parts. I set up a make shift work bench on the back patio since this is my first time going through the tranny and i wanted a clean separate area. The only things on that bench belong to the transmission. My wife (see resent picture on moper wives)- general discussion -- is my best supporter, besides thats the same spot we put her barracuda seats for two weeks while we restored her interior and I didn't get upset LOL :coffee2:
 
AJ/FormS said:
Does your wife know you are bringing stuff into the kitchen?

Hey, I got a tip for you; Grab the tailhouse and slam it onto the case, but,upside-down.Align the cutout in the tail house, with the hole where the cluster-pin goes in. Do you see the interference? Do you know where I'm going? Hyup. If you spend just a few minutes with the die-grinder shaping the T-house, then the pin will slide right in.
To what purpose you ask? Well, It will save you a lot of frustration during the re-assy procedure.
I assemble the case with the cluster loaded(but without the pin), and reverse, and the loaded M/D in place.(I grease the washers to the case). I then stand the case on it's face, dropping the M/D into a hole in my benchtop, and letting gravity pull the M/D all the way down.Next I take a brass ring, and drop it onto the M/D.Next I push the cluster to the bottom of the case, as far away from the M/D as possible. Then I grab the loaded tailhouse in one hand, with its gasket lightly 3-M'ed on,and the 3-4 slider moved back almost all the way into 3rd, and insert the tail,upside down, through the back hole. With the other hand, I guide the M/S nose into the M/D and index that brass ring to the 3-4 struts. When indexed, I drop the tail all the way down, and align the tailhouse cutout with the cluster-pin hole. Then reach inside the case and gently pull the cluster into alignment, center the rear thrust washer and drop the pin in. Sometimes the front washer needs to be centered at this time.Then the woodruff-key, and drive the pin home.Finally,spin the T-house around (gently, so as not to damage the gasket), and bolt her up. And double finally, reach under the bench and push the M/D up so that the ring properly locates into the struts, and pull the slider down into neutral. The rest is yours.
If you try to assemble the 833 in the conventional way,(not standing on it's nose), You will have a lot of un-fun. It can be done, but I can almost hear the cussing from here, and if you bend that 4th gear brass, you won't know it until the roadtest. And there is room in the M/D cavity for two or three needle rollers to fit in there and you could never tell.
And don't use Vaseline to hold the needles in place, either.Unless,maybe,your garage is really cold.Naww not even then.
Well there you go, I gave up another secret.....
Click to expand...
i like secrets at least mopar ones.
I will have to read that one a few times! Lol
oh yeah , paint is still wet.
 
geez, that's a lot of work there!! I discovered an easier method, but it's secret.
 
OK what's this whole using Vaseline thing all about? I figured I didn't need to order transmission grease and have it sent all across the United States and I could go down to the local parts store and get it. well I learned that lesson, they don't have it not nobody. So I bought a jar of Vaseline and just in case someone is reading this thread and wondering where you get it, it's with the lip gloss and lip balm and all that stuff. I had to search for it in the grocery store for a while till I found it. Is it for surely soluble in transmission fluid or actually in gear oil that's what I intend to use? And I've already heard about the colder temperatures to make it more pliable or sticky. I plan to use it outdoors on my patio and it's starting to get a little cooler here. Thank you.....
 
Yeah that is correct. At room temperature, petroleum jelly will not hold the needles in place long enough to finish assembly.
-And I hate it when the needles fall out just as the cluster pin slides by, and they pile up at the front washer, and then I get to start all over. I just hate that.
-Plus the jelly won't hold the Thrust washers in place, letting them end up in irretrievable places, and I get yto start all over. Again.
-Plus when the M/S enters the M/D, and if it's a tad off center and snags a roller, you guessed it, you get to start all over.Problem is you might not catch that, as the sub-assembly is getting pretty heavy by now, and your arm is screaming to just let it go. Like I said, there's room in the front of the M/D for at least 3 out-of-place rollers.
- Yeah so heave that runny gunk!
 
AJ/FormS said:
Yeah that is correct. At room temperature, petroleum jelly will not hold the needles in place long enough to finish assembly.
-And I hate it when the needles fall out just as the cluster pin slides by, and they pile up at the front washer, and then I get to start all over. I just hate that.
-Plus the jelly won't hold the Thrust washers in place, letting them end up in irretrievable places, and I get yto start all over. Again.
-Plus when the M/S enters the M/D, and if it's a tad off center and snags a roller, you guessed it, you get to start all over.Problem is you might not catch that, as the sub-assembly is getting pretty heavy by now, and your arm is screaming to just let it go. Like I said, there's room in the front of the M/D for at least 3 out-of-place rollers.
- Yeah so heave that runny gunk!
Click to expand...
I thought that's what the countershaft tool was for? to hold the bearings inside the cluster gears till you pushed it out with the pin? Can I put the petroleum jelly all over everything and the gear oil will dissolve it quickly?
 
Well if you bought a tool, then use it. I suppose you might get away with the jelly and the tool. I have rebuild hundreds and hundreds of manual trannys. I never had a tool, and I would heave the jelly.
I used it one time, in about 1978. Never again. I still have the little jar in my workshop. Haven't found a use for it yet.
I have used many types of greases over the years. Common wheel bearing grease seems to work ok. It has a good tack to it, washes out fairly quickly, and is readily available. White grease works a little less well;it has less tack to it, so you have to be careful, but it washes out more quickly.
 
AJ/FormS said:
Well if you bought a tool, then use it. I suppose you might get away with the jelly and the tool. I have rebuild hundreds and hundreds of manual trannys. I never had a tool, and I would heave the jelly.
I used it one time, in about 1978. Never again. I still have the little jar in my workshop. Haven't found a use for it yet.
I have used many types of greases over the years. Common wheel bearing grease seems to work ok. It has a good tack to it, washes out fairly quickly, and is readily available. White grease works a little less well;it has less tack to it, so you have to be careful, but it washes out more quickly.
Click to expand...
oh okay , white grease- I just want it to wash out quickly to make way for the gear oil...
 
I kind of want to get it out of the way and back together before I forget where everything goes ! Lol
it will be march before I test everything. Tranny with v-gate- dana 60 - new rear springs - new race shocks - new bigger intake valves - and hopefully new 1.6 rockers, frame connectors, roll bar, two step MSD- ect.... and Lord willing it will all work the first time !!?? Right ??
Oh yeah, painted studebaker rims today and tomorrow getting tires put on. Also bought points and making another try at getting that flat 6 started again this weekend. Somewhere I'd like to squeeze in a tranny build. No problem ...
 
perfacar said:
geez, that's a lot of work there!! I discovered an easier method, but it's secret.
Click to expand...

Why would you want to keep it secret but tell people about it? The reason for a forum like this is to help other people. If you don't want to share your method that's fine but don't be childish like that.
 
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