Cuda SRT8 392 Gen.III Hemi
- Thread starter Hellcat Cuda
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Hellcat Cuda
Well-Known Member
Rat Patrol,
By cutting the mounts off the K member, you can not only re-position the engine laterally, but you can shave them a bit, whatever's necessary to lower it down a bit.
Also, while the Ram truck parts created a perfect starter fit arrangement, everything changed when I upped my drivetrain to the 392; SPEC flywheel/clutch; and Lakewood scattershield. I still used the same starter (has great clearance) but had to do more fabrication to make it work with the SPEC flywheel. I'll be posting pics of that debacle but it takes me a while to re-size them and post them...
By cutting the mounts off the K member, you can not only re-position the engine laterally, but you can shave them a bit, whatever's necessary to lower it down a bit.
Also, while the Ram truck parts created a perfect starter fit arrangement, everything changed when I upped my drivetrain to the 392; SPEC flywheel/clutch; and Lakewood scattershield. I still used the same starter (has great clearance) but had to do more fabrication to make it work with the SPEC flywheel. I'll be posting pics of that debacle but it takes me a while to re-size them and post them...
Rat Patrol
Well-Known Member
Yeah we discussed centre-ing the motor - some drive tunnel mods are required on our cars but its the logical approach for anyone who is wants an easy path.
My workshop is currently experimenting with another option - involving the use of slant six biscuit insulators and retaining the TTI mounts and a torque strap.
Ill post on my thread once the work is done and outline what approach he took.
My workshop is currently experimenting with another option - involving the use of slant six biscuit insulators and retaining the TTI mounts and a torque strap.
Ill post on my thread once the work is done and outline what approach he took.
Hellcat Cuda
Well-Known Member
When I moved up from the MP 5.7 to a 6.1 and later, the 392 stroker build, I decided I'd better get rid of the stock truck flywheel and bellhousing that fit soooo nicely. Bummer. So I got a MP / Lakewood scattershield which moved the starter position in a little bit closer to the block. The ears and that quarter inch overhang had to be ground off to allow the starter to bolt up correctly again. Now I had even BETTER clearance to the header, since the starter was tucked in a little closer to the block. COOL!
Hellcat Cuda
Well-Known Member
Next I set out to find a good flywheel / clutch combo that would take high hp / torque and hold up for a while. Something I could abuse for a few 1/4 mile runs while not jeopardizing longevity. I decided I better go with a dual disc clutch of some type, to also give me a moderate "pedal", as I'm not getting any younger during this build. I was looking at the McCleod dual disc and about ready to go with it when I stumbled across the SPEC dual disc setup. The McCleod had a stamped steel pressure plate housing which I'm sure was durable, but I really fell in love with the SPEC unit. The flywheel is machined out of billet aluminum (with steel insert) and the clutch cover is machined from billet aluminum as well and then anodized blue. While I consider my oil pan to be a "hand fabricated piece of art", I view this SPEC unit as a "machined piece of art".
SPEC does not have a general, "fit all" flywheel / clutch arrangement for the Gen3 Hemis. They only had a unit whose application was specifically for the late model Challengers with 6 speed manual. I figured what the hell, that should be fine and ordered it. It is soooo nice!
SPEC does not have a general, "fit all" flywheel / clutch arrangement for the Gen3 Hemis. They only had a unit whose application was specifically for the late model Challengers with 6 speed manual. I figured what the hell, that should be fine and ordered it. It is soooo nice!
Hellcat Cuda
Well-Known Member
After bolting things up to see how it all fits, I discovered a big problem. The ring gear is located to the foremost front of the flywheel. It is so far forward, the starter gear is engaged with it as soon as you install it. DAMN! I called SPEC about whether the ring gear could be moved back and they weren't much interested in helping me out at all. The guy explained how big their operation is and they just can't do "one off" changes like that, especially at the very busy time of the year it was (seems like I hear that alot). The bottom line was I ordered this unit by application of late model Challenger and that's what they delivered. I like the unit so much (it's so PRECISE) that I decided to pursue a way to make it all work.
Hellcat Cuda
Well-Known Member
I went down to my local Dodge parts counter and ordered up a starter for a new Challenger. There is no housing snout and the narrow gear is recessed back near the motor. This explains why it would work with the flywheel ring gear. However, there were two problems with trying to use this starter.
1. It's designed for the passenger side of the car and will not bolt up if rolled over to the driver side. That one threw me. I didn't realize at the time the starters were on the pass. side of LX / LC cars.
2. I considered trying to make it work on the pass. side of the engine, but that raised big issues with header clearance, as there's a big bend in one tube that comes right into the area where the starter would be.
I now have an extra starter sitting on the shelf for my Challenger. Luckily I get a pretty decent discount from the dealer...
1. It's designed for the passenger side of the car and will not bolt up if rolled over to the driver side. That one threw me. I didn't realize at the time the starters were on the pass. side of LX / LC cars.
2. I considered trying to make it work on the pass. side of the engine, but that raised big issues with header clearance, as there's a big bend in one tube that comes right into the area where the starter would be.
I now have an extra starter sitting on the shelf for my Challenger. Luckily I get a pretty decent discount from the dealer...
Hellcat Cuda
Well-Known Member
I decided to make a thick shim to bring it out where I'd need it. I figured if it was one piece of thick aluminum, it would just be equivalent to a thicker starter base. I first made a paper pattern which I later modified when applied to some ABS plastic sheets. I made a 3/8" shim and several 1/8" shims. Through trying several combinations, I derived 5/8" as the magic number. I was able to find a piece of 5/8" aluminum billet which I brought down to a local shop that has a water jet cutter. He used my ABS pattern and cut out a nice, one piece shim for me. I don't have a pic of the aluminum shim in place, but you can get the idea from the pictures below.
With the starter shimmed out, this left the snout of it hanging in the air. Some people believe this is OK, but I wasn't satisfied with that conclusion. The snout would normally rest in an exact size hole in the scattershield. I bored this hole out and ran a piece of pipe throught the hole (the pipe ID is the size as the snout) until it bottomed out on the seat of the snout. I cut the pipe off even with where it came out of the scattershield; welded it; ground it and smoothed it, then had it re-powder coated the stock red color. FWIW, I wanted to change the color of the SC to match the engine, but a close friend lobbied hard to keep it red. LOL
With the starter shimmed out, this left the snout of it hanging in the air. Some people believe this is OK, but I wasn't satisfied with that conclusion. The snout would normally rest in an exact size hole in the scattershield. I bored this hole out and ran a piece of pipe throught the hole (the pipe ID is the size as the snout) until it bottomed out on the seat of the snout. I cut the pipe off even with where it came out of the scattershield; welded it; ground it and smoothed it, then had it re-powder coated the stock red color. FWIW, I wanted to change the color of the SC to match the engine, but a close friend lobbied hard to keep it red. LOL
Hellcat Cuda
Well-Known Member
Holy crap 68cuda, do you know the build specs of this engine? Is it NA?My engine builder assured me "well north of 500" but didn't indicate anything like your friend's. Cool for him. Do you know who built the engine?
MoparDaddy
Damn Right I Carry!
One of these things just doesn't belong here...
Hellcat Cuda
Well-Known Member
MoparDaddy,
What's the problem?
What's the problem?
Joe Dokes
Well-Known Member
Rat Patrol
Well-Known Member
Paul. - I hope to be able to detail how my guy has fixed the issue in the next few days.
SRTCUDA is correct that centring the motor is a viable alternative - but our method may be a little less dramatic.
Ill make sure I put up a detailed post when Im breifed on it by my workshop guy.
He's a great fabricator and a smart cooky...his solution will be a good one.
Hellcat Cuda
Well-Known Member
Well, to J Dokes and R Patrol;
I never said anything about CENTERING the engine. That would be pretty dramatic and wouldn't work with a stock K, it's steering box, the torsion bars and the steering column. There's very little room for movement. However, cutting the mount brackets from the frame will allow you to bolt them up with the bisquits and engine brackets, all squarely to the engine. By shaving the bottoms wherever / however needed, you can then set the engine where you need it to clear at least some of the obstacles.
You both have completely different beasts though, since the U.S. car has the gear box on the K frame and the Aussie car has it up on the right frame. This would probably work the best with the Aussie car because moving the engine to the left side of the car does not lessen the clearance to the gear box like on the U.S. car. I must clarify that I'm only talking as little as 1/4", up to 5/8 inch. For some, that might seem like a lot of work for such little movement, but if the movement makes it all fit better, it's worth it in my view. I just see it as "you do what you have to do".
Given that I had the kit and tried many ways to make it work, I really have no faith whatsoever that you can just bolt it in. Everyone has different standards of what's acceptable though. I'm sure that some people have just beat on their headers or elsewhere with a ball peen hammer to make it work (and never complained to TTI) but I was not about to accept that poor of a fit. I started cuttin' and have never looked back.
There's a post from a guy (something like IT'S FINALLY DONE) who tells of trying the stock K; then some other K and then finally the AlterK. Take heed of the experiece he went through.
J Dokes, if you're willing to lower your expectations about the fit; settle with rattles and vibrations, etc. then you can probably get by with the TTI stuff. I settled for that kind of stuff when I was a kid, but not anymore.
R Patrol, although it doesn't really matter to me at this point, I'll watch your build for the fab shop's remedy. Of more concern will be whether the "fix" will work on a LHD cars like J Doke's...
I never said anything about CENTERING the engine. That would be pretty dramatic and wouldn't work with a stock K, it's steering box, the torsion bars and the steering column. There's very little room for movement. However, cutting the mount brackets from the frame will allow you to bolt them up with the bisquits and engine brackets, all squarely to the engine. By shaving the bottoms wherever / however needed, you can then set the engine where you need it to clear at least some of the obstacles.
You both have completely different beasts though, since the U.S. car has the gear box on the K frame and the Aussie car has it up on the right frame. This would probably work the best with the Aussie car because moving the engine to the left side of the car does not lessen the clearance to the gear box like on the U.S. car. I must clarify that I'm only talking as little as 1/4", up to 5/8 inch. For some, that might seem like a lot of work for such little movement, but if the movement makes it all fit better, it's worth it in my view. I just see it as "you do what you have to do".
Given that I had the kit and tried many ways to make it work, I really have no faith whatsoever that you can just bolt it in. Everyone has different standards of what's acceptable though. I'm sure that some people have just beat on their headers or elsewhere with a ball peen hammer to make it work (and never complained to TTI) but I was not about to accept that poor of a fit. I started cuttin' and have never looked back.
There's a post from a guy (something like IT'S FINALLY DONE) who tells of trying the stock K; then some other K and then finally the AlterK. Take heed of the experiece he went through.
J Dokes, if you're willing to lower your expectations about the fit; settle with rattles and vibrations, etc. then you can probably get by with the TTI stuff. I settled for that kind of stuff when I was a kid, but not anymore.
R Patrol, although it doesn't really matter to me at this point, I'll watch your build for the fab shop's remedy. Of more concern will be whether the "fix" will work on a LHD cars like J Doke's...
Rat Patrol
Well-Known Member
Ok...when you mentioned moving the K frame pedestals I assumed you were alluding to "centring" the motor......
Also, Not knowing how much clearance exists between the motor and the US steering box, I may not be able to provide much guidance on if our solution is going to work for your cars - I guess we wait and see.
The devil is in the detail.
Paul - To be frank, my primary reason for tackling this is the excessive pinion angle. The right side clearance to the guard is annoying, but can be gotten around, especially with a left steer car.
And as my car is a street machine, not a show car...its about functionality....not so much "presentatation"
What I cant stomach is the motor pressing against the firewall LOL!!!
Also, Not knowing how much clearance exists between the motor and the US steering box, I may not be able to provide much guidance on if our solution is going to work for your cars - I guess we wait and see.
The devil is in the detail.
Paul - To be frank, my primary reason for tackling this is the excessive pinion angle. The right side clearance to the guard is annoying, but can be gotten around, especially with a left steer car.
And as my car is a street machine, not a show car...its about functionality....not so much "presentatation"
What I cant stomach is the motor pressing against the firewall LOL!!!
Hellcat Cuda
Well-Known Member
Here's the current status of my Cuda's body. All body work and mods are completed. I've since removed all the glass from the car and taken the doors off. It is literally ready for the final scuff, coat of sealer and the paint. I do want to determine what type of coating I'm going to use on the underside. I want to spray it on prior to painting the top side. I don't care for body color down there and am looking for just the right brand of a very fine texture, thin, spray on urethane undercoat.
Hellcat Cuda
Well-Known Member
Thanks RJ. Yeah, the U-pol is the first one on my list. I think I can buy it in a small enough quantity to test it out and experiment with it a little before committing to it all the way. So you've used it and like it huh? Got any pics? By the way, how is your Demon project coming? I haven't seen it in a long while. Do you have a build thread here?
My brother has used it on a dozen or so projects. From floor pans, truck beds, rockers, etc. I can see if he has any pics of the liner sprayed out.
My demon is still in metal work phase. Bumpers and the front valance is done now, finally. I don't have a current build thread, progress is slow
Hellcat Cuda
Well-Known Member
I had knee surgery in November and am anxious for it to heal up so I can move on to the next step on my Cuda......PAINT! My car was originally B5 blue. For a very long time, I wanted to paint it the "new generation" of B5 blue to go with the new generation of the Hemi going in the car. However, a few years back, I caught my wife in weak moment and she suggested that I get a new Challenger because she new how much I like them. I went right down to my local dealer and bought one in......B5 Blue!
I don't want matching B5 blue cars. Also, because of the logistical arrangements in which I will be painting my car (in pieces, at different times) I will be painting it in a solid color blue vs. a metallic or a pearl. I've been looking for a color that "pops" a bit, rather than something conservative. Here's three colors that I've narrowed it down to. However, until I actually BUY the paint, I could be persuaded toward another color like 1969 Butterscotch or maybe even the modern "Hemi Orange" as seen on the new Challengers. Hell, I don't know.....what do you guys think?
I don't want matching B5 blue cars. Also, because of the logistical arrangements in which I will be painting my car (in pieces, at different times) I will be painting it in a solid color blue vs. a metallic or a pearl. I've been looking for a color that "pops" a bit, rather than something conservative. Here's three colors that I've narrowed it down to. However, until I actually BUY the paint, I could be persuaded toward another color like 1969 Butterscotch or maybe even the modern "Hemi Orange" as seen on the new Challengers. Hell, I don't know.....what do you guys think?
Hellcat Cuda
Well-Known Member
The first car is a Michigan State Police Charger. I think it looks sooo bad *** as police cars go. Not totally sure the color would look good on my car and "pop" enough. I do like it a lot though.
The second car is a fairly late model Porsche Speedster in a new iteration of a previous old Speedster. I saw the real thing at a dealer and it did look good with the various black trim, which I'll have on my car . (full 'Cuda matte black trim with black matte hood treatment to an extent TBD)
Then there's Allen Johnson's latest paint scheme on his pro stocker. I would be using just the blue, with the matte black as described above.
After so much time and work that I've put into my car, to say nothing of the $$$, I need to get this right! LOL
What do you guys / gals think? I welcome and look forward to your opinions...
The second car is a fairly late model Porsche Speedster in a new iteration of a previous old Speedster. I saw the real thing at a dealer and it did look good with the various black trim, which I'll have on my car . (full 'Cuda matte black trim with black matte hood treatment to an extent TBD)
Then there's Allen Johnson's latest paint scheme on his pro stocker. I would be using just the blue, with the matte black as described above.
After so much time and work that I've put into my car, to say nothing of the $$$, I need to get this right! LOL
What do you guys / gals think? I welcome and look forward to your opinions...
Hellcat Cuda
Well-Known Member
I screwed up the rear shot of the Charger and can't seem to correct it, so here's the front...
Rat Patrol
Well-Known Member
If you are going to go with a "mid" blue colour Id choose Petty Blue.
It looks kick *** with white striping and a black interior.
It looks kick *** with white striping and a black interior.
jeffneal66
Well-Known Member
I like the Allen Johnson blue the best.
Hellcat Cuda
Well-Known Member
Thanks Rat Patrol. I've always liked Petty Blue but it's "been done" so many times. I want a color that stands out and away from others (but without being obnoxious).
I absolutely love these cars in black or red, but again, it's been done sooo many times. I actually had a black '69 Cuda when I was a kid and considered replicating that car, but at this point, my car would be just another black Cuda. Same with red. I have a couple of gallons of a beautiful shade of red that never got used when I had my shop, but there's quite a few red Cudas already out there too.
Jeffneal, I'm starting to lean toward the blue on AJ's car because it really does "pop". The new Hemi Orange pops quite a bit too. I'll have to see if i can find a picture of that to post...
I absolutely love these cars in black or red, but again, it's been done sooo many times. I actually had a black '69 Cuda when I was a kid and considered replicating that car, but at this point, my car would be just another black Cuda. Same with red. I have a couple of gallons of a beautiful shade of red that never got used when I had my shop, but there's quite a few red Cudas already out there too.
Jeffneal, I'm starting to lean toward the blue on AJ's car because it really does "pop". The new Hemi Orange pops quite a bit too. I'll have to see if i can find a picture of that to post...
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