FiTech EFI system

[v8_vega]

Well I've figured out a couple of things.

One.
If you have trouble with injectors firing when key is on, it could be a rev limiter verification feature causing it. Found this in the MSD Digital 6AL paperwork. When activated, it will send a signal to your tach to verify your rev limit setting which in turn makes the ECU think engine is cranking.

Two.
After having issues with engine starting then just dying, I found the issue. It was a small problem before I used ECU to control timing and was getting better. After setting it all up to control timing, it got progressively worse. The problem is the small space between the run and start position of ignition switch. There is no power for just less then a second. Just that short pause between start back to run, it made the ECU think you shut off ignition. I can put it in run position and jump the start relay and starts right up and stays running. I can't belive how many degrees of ignition switch movement where there is no 12 volt power at all.

Not sure if my switch is wore out, bad or just a cheap piece. If your having issues with it starting then shutting off, put a test light on your keyed source for EFI unit and just slowly switch between run to start and see if you are having a momentary loss of power. For now, just going to get a start button.

 

[Phreakish]

I've been having a weird problem lately. It will be idling and then all of a sudden the IAC count will shoot up and it will go from like 800 rpm to 1300 rpm's and then go back down. Seems to stop once it's at running temp of 180-190, but before that it's kind of annoying.

Are you using timing control?

There's an IAC loop rate up and down, it took a bit of fiddling to get mine just right to avoid major spikes in the idle speed. Under pro tuning and fuel control, I also reduced the idle learn rate to about 5 to get a good steady idle.

 

[rednesss]

Are you using timing control?

There's an IAC loop rate up and down, it took a bit of fiddling to get mine just right to avoid major spikes in the idle speed. Under pro tuning and fuel control, I also reduced the idle learn rate to about 5 to get a good steady idle.

I'm not using timing control. What are your numbers?

 

[Phreakish]

I'm not using timing control. What are your numbers?

OK, when using timing control the computer will vary the timing, IAC, and fuel all at once and it's tough to get it dialed in.

My loop rate up/down are both set to 15.

Also check under the fan settings and ensure they're DISABLED if you're not using a fan. You have to use the joystick to click left/right to disable it (took me a while to figure out). Otherwise when the computer tries to turn on the (nonexistant) fan, the idle will raise to compensate.

Then under 'closed loop AFR' my 'idle fuel learn rate' had to be tweaked way down, to about 5. Once it settled in and I had my idle screw set (to keep the IAC close to my 5~15 goal) when fully warmed, I pushed the idle fuel learn rate down to 1. Before I did this, the AFR would swing from 11.5~15.5 and the RPM would surge, the IAC would chase it while the AFRs were cycling.. it was a little bit of a mess. Once I turned the learn rate down and played with the idle trim rates and loop rates, the IAC became far more stable and I was able to dial it in.

Data logging is your friend. Just watching the numbers bounce around is fun, but you wind up chasing your tail. Being able to look at the data after the fact really lets you see what's going on, as the out will list the fuel learn, trim values, IAC, rpm, etc.

Another thing that gave me fits is that I had a plug wire that was arcing to ground. The computer was picking it up as a signal and so the rpm readings were FUBAR and the IAC was trying to compensate for an rpm issue that didn't exist. Check your fault codes and see if 'RPM NOISE' is listed if changing the loop rate doesn't help.

 

[vc318]

Well I've figured out a couple of things.

One.
If you have trouble with injectors firing when key is on, it could be a rev limiter verification feature causing it. Found this in the MSD Digital 6AL paperwork. When activated, it will send a signal to your tach to verify your rev limit setting which in turn makes the ECU think engine is cranking.

Two.
After having issues with engine starting then just dying, I found the issue. It was a small problem before I used ECU to control timing and was getting better. After setting it all up to control timing, it got progressively worse. The problem is the small space between the run and start position of ignition switch. There is no power for just less then a second. Just that short pause between start back to run, it made the ECU think you shut off ignition. I can put it in run position and jump the start relay and starts right up and stays running. I can't belive how many degrees of ignition switch movement where there is no 12 volt power at all.

Not sure if my switch is wore out, bad or just a cheap piece. If your having issues with it starting then shutting off, put a test light on your keyed source for EFI unit and just slowly switch between run to start and see if you are having a momentary loss of power. For now, just going to get a start button.

MSD instructions here
http://08961cd535df487cd1c1-bda68e1....r87.cf1.rackcdn.com/rev_limiter_addendum.pdf

 

[Lustle]

Whelp I'll be installing mine soon. Just wondering if anyone has used the timing control and just locked the distributor but not phased the rotor? I'll be running at least 22* at the crank. Maybe more. Total at 36 or under, I'm betting it'll like 34 most. Do I really need to phase the rotor for only 10-12* of timing? I don't believe the MSD rotor will fit my firecore. And I don't wanna try and modify it. So just looking to see if anyone has tried the timing without the rotor phased?

 

[ken5124]

Whelp I'll be installing mine soon. Just wondering if anyone has used the timing control and just locked the distributor but not phased the rotor? I'll be running at least 22* at the crank. Maybe more. Total at 36 or under, I'm betting it'll like 34 most. Do I really need to phase the rotor for only 10-12* of timing? I don't believe the MSD rotor will fit my firecore. And I don't wanna try and modify it. So just looking to see if anyone has tried the timing without the rotor phased?

I am using the timing control.. with the mopar performance Mallory style distributor.. ( Can lock the advance out) I do not have an adjustable rotor.

Checking the phase with a timing light through the hole at idle and full advance rpm, it firing very close to the center point in the distributor cap.. I had purchased the rick ehlenberg adjustable rotor and tried it but found the stock position worked just fine.

I suggest trying the same method and then you can confirm for yourself that the plug is firing in proximity with the spark plug terminal.

from what I have read on the interworld and discussed with Fitech, you want the rotor tip to be close to the spark plug tower throughout the range of advance that your motor will see.( as controlled by the ECU)

For example---I locked my distributor at 14 degrees. My motor will operate between 14 and 34 plus about 12 more for " Vacuum" advance ( Vacuum Can not hooked up-- fitech system programmed to add more advance at high vacuum) So when the timing is in the middle of that range, at about 30-32 degrees, I wanted the rotor to be dead even with the spark plug terminal.

Then enabled the fitech timing.. Within their software controller, you tell it what you degree you locked your distributor at. Once it is running on their timing, you confirm that what the display on the handheld is showing for advance is what your timing light shows on the engine. After that you rev it up to say 2000 and again confirm that what the handheld says is the same as engine.. The VR advance 4000 setting, is used to adjust the fitech timing if their is a slight discrepancy at 4000 rpm. Again rev to 4000, compare timing light to electronic display.. If the handheld says 34 degrees and the timing light shows 36, you add 2 to the VR Advance 4000 setting.

Not a mechanic, but offering this up from what I have done so far..

Hope that helps..

Ken

 

[ken5124]

Well I've figured out a couple of things.

One.
If you have trouble with injectors firing when key is on, it could be a rev limiter verification feature causing it. Found this in the MSD Digital 6AL paperwork. When activated, it will send a signal to your tach to verify your rev limit setting which in turn makes the ECU think engine is cranking.

I had the rev verification feature turned on initially when i installed.. Turned the key on and it would fill the bowls with fuel. The ecu thinks your engine is already running at that set RPM.

Fitech knows about this issue and Ken had indicated to me last fall that they would add something to the instructions to alert installers.

 

[dodge71demon]

I have JUST confirmed the MSD phasable rotor IS a 100% go. on the PACE/TSP Pro Series- Pro billet distributor.

anyone can however, also go with ANY of the others and operate in fuel only..or with a 400 or 800.


And just to be 100% clear...the phasable, lockable SB distributors are these two...

TSP-JM7613BK Mopar SB Pro Series Pro-Billet Electronic Distributor. Black Cap

TSP-JM7613R Mopar SB Pro Series Pro-Billet Electronic Distributor. Red Cap

And you need the MSD rotor for phasing.
Adjustable Race Rotor MSD Ignition 84211 - Pace Performance Parts

ANY of the other distributors found HERE!
Can only be used with a 400, 800, or when running a 600 or 1200 in fuel only.

the cheaper pro-billet, that is not the "PRO series" does NOT accept the msd phasable rotor!

Considering the Fitech once again but have a concern about the height of the distributor your suggesting I have the 71 unsilenced air cleaner and there's just enough room for the OEM distributor how much taller if any is the one you suggest

 

[71duster06]

Hi everyone, I have installed my FiTech system and so far so good. I have not had it on the road yet but running in the garage it fires right up and runs well. The only thing I have noticed is a slight stumble right off idle which I assume can be fixed by adjusting the accelerator pump setting (and by driving on the road). With that being said does anybody have enough seat/driving time with this system to post their ideal settings and what worked best on their car? I know each motor will be different but some general reference settings might help others that are in the early stages of this upgrade.

 

[Phreakish]

Hi everyone, I have installed my FiTech system and so far so good. I have not had it on the road yet but running in the garage it fires right up and runs well. The only thing I have noticed is a slight stumble right off idle which I assume can be fixed by adjusting the accelerator pump setting (and by driving on the road). With that being said does anybody have enough seat/driving time with this system to post their ideal settings and what worked best on their car? I know each motor will be different but some general reference settings might help others that are in the early stages of this upgrade.

I suggest driving it before tweaking anything. It's pretty good right out of the box. Once you get a couple tanks of fuel through it, then see which issues are still there and work on tweaking them out. The system learns pretty quick, but needs time to learn each 'condition'. IE: low rpm high load, low rpm low load, high rpm low load, etc. So do lots of different driving. Climb hills, coast, WOT acceleration.

 

[Johnny Mac]

Considering the Fitech once again but have a concern about the height of the distributor your suggesting I have the 71 unsilenced air cleaner and there's just enough room for the OEM distributor how much taller if any is the one you suggest

I just went out and measured this one for you.

PRO SERIES 2 WIRE DISTRIBUTOR | MOPAR SB 273-360 | V8 ENGINE | BLACK CAP

The center terminal is slightly taller than the outers. From the base pad where it would sit in the block, to the peak of that center terminal is 7.75 inches. Call it 8 if you want to make sure you've got enough room to run a 90 degree coil wire. I posted boot kits somewhere above if needed.

 

[dodge71demon]

I just went out and measured this one for you.

TSP-JM7613BK Mopar SB Pro Series Pro-Billet Electronic Distributor. Black Cap

The center terminal is slightly taller than the outers. From the base pad where it would sit in the block, to the peak of that center terminal is 7.75 inches. Call it 8 if you want to make sure you've got enough room to run a 90 degree coil wire. I posted boot kits somewhere above if needed.

Thanks I know by using the 90* I'll gain some room

 

[Johnny Mac]

Thanks I know by using the 90* I'll gain some room

I'm sure i have a black or red spare plug wire in the back i can toss in if you need one to cut up and make a custom coil wire with.

 

[rednesss]

I've been having a weird problem. In the morning when it's cold, I'll see the RPM swing way up and go back down, I'm also seeing the AFR go to 10.5 and then go back up, and then down. It seems to stop doing this once it warms up. I also got a RPM Noise fault code now. I'm wondering if the coil or some other ignition component is causing RF noise when it's cold, but goes away once everything warms up. I'm really considering getting a different distributor.

 

[Phreakish]

I've been having a weird problem. In the morning when it's cold, I'll see the RPM swing way up and go back down, I'm also seeing the AFR go to 10.5 and then go back up, and then down. It seems to stop doing this once it warms up. I also got a RPM Noise fault code now. I'm wondering if the coil or some other ignition component is causing RF noise when it's cold, but goes away once everything warms up. I'm really considering getting a different distributor.

Check your plug wires. That was my issue with I got the RPM Noise fault. Header had burnt the casing. It was causing my issues with my AFR jumping and my idle not remaining stable too.

 

[rednesss]

I'm going to do that, as well as see if I can route the tach signal wire as far away from any ignition component that I can. But it's kinda hard when you have the coil mounted in the stock location right next to the distributor.

 

[Phreakish]

I'm going to do that, as well as see if I can route the tach signal wire as far away from any ignition component that I can. But it's kinda hard when you have the coil mounted in the stock location right next to the distributor.

I haven't found that to be an issue so far. I had initially thought the same thing, but then I completely lost a cylinder and found the culprit. Couple of 90 degree plug boots, and new wires, it was good as could be.

 

[Phreakish]

I wonder if it has anything to do with the balance between the primary and secondary throttle plates? Just wondering.

I checked - no issues there.

This is the only thing keeping me from falling completely in love with this system. I too wondered if you could adjust the secondary butterflies to open less or something to allow in less air.

I don't think this is an issue at all.

Looking at the logs, it's pretty apparent that the learning value is going too negative (pulling fuel) during cruise. To the point that any change in throttle causes a lean spike. I'm going to experiment more with the learn value and see what can be done. I tried to limit the 'min' learn value, but that caused it to run rich in several areas where the trim value couldn't lean it out any more. I increased the learn rate into the 80's and it would bog more frequently when making small changes. I reduced it back to just a few points over where I began, and it's a little better. I'm going to try and reduce it while cruising close to steady at my most troublesome RPM point, then maximize the min trim value and take some new logs.

 

[71duster06]

Hey everyone. Was finally able to take the Duster out tonight with the new efi and put a goo 80-90 miles on. Immediately I noticed an improvement in general driving, throttle response, and smooth engine operation... Until 4-5k rpm. It is slowly getting better but 5k and up it stumbles something fierce and acts like my old rev limiter as it spits and pops like an fuel or ignition cutoff. I made sure the fuel cutoff was set well above this point to eliminate that as an issue. Anyways, do you guys know of any manual setting I can change to test this issue? Again it's incredibly smooth until a high rpm pull in 2nd or 3rd gear. FYI I used their inline fuel delivery kit.

Any help or recommendations would be great.

 

[OUTLAWD]

I checked - no issues there.



I don't think this is an issue at all.

Looking at the logs, it's pretty apparent that the learning value is going too negative (pulling fuel) during cruise. To the point that any change in throttle causes a lean spike. I'm going to experiment more with the learn value and see what can be done. I tried to limit the 'min' learn value, but that caused it to run rich in several areas where the trim value couldn't lean it out any more. I increased the learn rate into the 80's and it would bog more frequently when making small changes. I reduced it back to just a few points over where I began, and it's a little better. I'm going to try and reduce it while cruising close to steady at my most troublesome RPM point, then maximize the min trim value and take some new logs.

What I did was take my fuel learns, then apply those multipliers to the base VE surf I was using. The first iteration went well, but I think I went to far the second time around, as now it is adding fuel back in...

 

[rednesss]

I keep getting a RPM Noise fault code. Arggghhh

Switched out the coil and it went away. I'm guessing I had a bad coil.

 

[71duster06]

I reset the fuel learn and started over tonight just to see if it made any difference. Overall runs great until the WOT. I can go right up to 6,200 no problem under light throttle and it's very smooth all the way up. Then heavy throttle the problem comes back. I have not touched the accelerator pump settings yet and I'll give it a tank or two of gas. Until then if you guys have any thoughts I'm all ears.

Hey everyone. Was finally able to take the Duster out tonight with the new efi and put a goo 80-90 miles on. Immediately I noticed an improvement in general driving, throttle response, and smooth engine operation... Until 4-5k rpm. It is slowly getting better but 5k and up it stumbles something fierce and acts like my old rev limiter as it spits and pops like an fuel or ignition cutoff. I made sure the fuel cutoff was set well above this point to eliminate that as an issue. Anyways, do you guys know of any manual setting I can change to test this issue? Again it's incredibly smooth until a high rpm pull in 2nd or 3rd gear. FYI I used their inline fuel delivery kit.

Any help or recommendations would be great.

 

[Phreakish]

What I did was take my fuel learns, then apply those multipliers to the base VE surf I was using. The first iteration went well, but I think I went to far the second time around, as now it is adding fuel back in...

View attachment 1714932391

View attachment 1714932392

What are you using to make that graph? There was no software with my 600 unit, and I couldn't find any kind of download or anything at their site. Would love to be able to see in that kind of detail!

 

[Lustle]

What are you using to make that graph? There was no software with my 600 unit, and I couldn't find any kind of download or anything at their site. Would love to be able to see in that kind of detail!

Which 600 setup are you using? As far as I understand it, it's only the 600 power adder that has the full professional tuning software.