Found my dads original 1971 duster!

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dads71 said:
I also forgot to mention that on the threaded portion of one of the studs coming off the back of the printed board it looked like possible a wire touched it and arced. (Pretty important thing I forgot to say in other post). I’ll try to get a picture of that
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This^^^
dads71 said:
Ahhh. Ok, my bad I guess. I thought someone said on here that if I joined the 2 wires it isolated the system to just be able to run the car without the rest of the stuff working or causing issues. I’ll have a look at those nuts and see. I don’t think I’m comfortable tacking this electrical myself. I’ll try to track someone down. All of the help is much appreciated!!
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You can and you did. The danger in doing this was that the cause of the smoke had not been identified yet. Just testing for resistance or continuity to ground would have let you know if there was a serious short.
 
Mattax said:
Your missing my point.
The board is what it is. It just made me wonder what has been changed.
The ammeter may not be an ammeter - that's what I was getting at.
It should look like the one I posted.

If the fuel gage is suspect, then take it out and look at it. It can be checked out - there's a number of threads where we've done this - and also factory tech tips.

Follow your nose and eyes. You see a place where the ammeter stud contacted something - well thats the battery connecting and shorting.

The electrical diagram is just like a road map. We don't take every road, we just follow the ones we're interested in. The electrons follow a path connecting them from positive to the negative.
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Ya, I hear you. Mine is definitely a bit different looking than that one. I’ll call them tomorrow and maybe they can tell me if there’s has the ammeter in it or if they’ve designed it with something else in its place. The builder ordered the circuit board from them, so I’m not familiar. Thanks, mattax
 
This looks OK.
1719532949193.png

What was touching?

As far as the ammeter goes. Take it off and check the studs are tight and then test for resistance. It shouldn't have any measureable resistance. Compare to touching the meters probes together. That's about it for the meter. There's no electronics . Its just mechanical.

The fuel gage is a bit more complicated because of its dual function but for a guy who can do as much as you do I think you can tackle it too (if you want).
 
Mattax said:
This^^^

You can and you did. The danger in doing this was that the cause of the smoke had not been identified yet. Just testing for resistance or continuity to ground would have let you know if there was a serious short.
Click to expand...
So is it safe to assume that the fuseable link is ok since the car got power to run the ignition/starter? I’ll start by checking for power before and after it with a test light
 
Mattax said:
This looks OK.
View attachment 1716268574
What was touching?

As far as the ammeter goes. Take it off and check the studs are tight and then test for resistance. It shouldn't have any measureable resistance. Compare to touching the meters probes together. That's about it for the meter. There's no electronics . Its just mechanical.

The fuel gage is a bit more complicated because of its dual function but for a guy who can do as much as you do I think you can tackle it too (if you want).
Click to expand...
I’ll go take a picture of the stud that looked like it had been arced at some point
 
dads71 said:
So is it safe to assume that the fuseable link is ok since the car got power to run the ignition/starter? I’ll start by checking for power before and after it with a test light
Click to expand...
Yes it must be reasonably intact for power to have gone through it.

How does it look?
 
Mattax said:
This looks OK.
View attachment 1716268574
What was touching?

As far as the ammeter goes. Take it off and check the studs are tight and then test for resistance. It shouldn't have any measureable resistance. Compare to touching the meters probes together. That's about it for the meter. There's no electronics . Its just mechanical.

The fuel gage is a bit more complicated because of its dual function but for a guy who can do as much as you do I think you can tackle it too (if you want).
Click to expand...
Here’s a pic of it off. Studs are tight. You can see the burn mark here better. Just about to test it for resistance. Have to google how to. lol. Just found my multi meter

IMG_0682.jpeg
 
Mattax said:
This looks OK.
View attachment 1716268574
What was touching?

As far as the ammeter goes. Take it off and check the studs are tight and then test for resistance. It shouldn't have any measureable resistance. Compare to touching the meters probes together. That's about it for the meter. There's no electronics . Its just mechanical.

The fuel gage is a bit more complicated because of its dual function but for a guy who can do as much as you do I think you can tackle it too (if you want).
Click to expand...
I just tried checking resistance. It reads .000 when I touch the probes to eachother and still reads .000 when I touch one probe to each of the studs on this. The is the ammmmeter, correct?

IMG_0684.jpeg
 
Mattax said:
Your missing my point.
The board is what it is. It just made me wonder what has been changed.
The ammeter may not be an ammeter - that's what I was getting at.
It should look like the one I posted.
Another view
View attachment 1716268571

If the fuel gage is suspect, then take it out and look at it. It can be checked out - there's a number of threads where we've done this - and also factory tech tips.

Follow your nose and eyes. You see a place where the ammeter stud contacted something - well thats the battery connecting and shorting.

The electrical diagram is just like a road map. We don't take every road, we just follow the ones we're interested in. The electrons follow a path connecting them from positive to the negative.
Click to expand...
Yes. Thats exactly what mine looks like!
 
dads71 said:
Here’s a pic of it off. Studs are tight. You can see the burn mark here better. Just about to test it for resistance. Have to google how to. lol. Just found my multi meter

View attachment 1716268580
Click to expand...

So what's our best guess?
Mine is the second nut wasn't snugged down - but its just a guess. Does the ring terminal also have some black ?


dads71 said:
I just tried checking resistance. It reads .000 when I touch the probes to eachother and still reads .000 when I touch one probe to each of the studs on this. The is the ammmmeter, correct?

View attachment 1716268582
Click to expand...
That's as good as we can get with a basic multimeter unless we set up a test circuit.
IMO - and its just my opinion - is that there nothing to indicate a poor connection if the studs aren't loose and the meter shows zero.
 
There may be two seperate issues.

Reasons are this
1. That little black doesn't seem like the result of something that created noticible smoke. It looks something that sparked.
2. If the short to ground was there, or anywhere in the battery connected lines, it would have smoked when the battery was hooked up.
My understanding is the smoking and smell occured when the key was in run (or maybe start). That means the connection that smoked was downstream of the key switch. Something or some branch of the run or accessory circuit.

Possibilities:
One issue may have been no battery power getting through because the connection at the ammeter was loose (nut stripped or not tightened enoguh)

A second issue is something shorted or overheated (another loose connection) that still has to be found. But its most likely fed by the run circuit, possibly by the accessory circuit. Since the fuel gage smelled bad, probably worth looking at next.
 
Mattax said:
So what's our best guess?
Mine is the second nut wasn't snugged down - but its just a guess. Does the ring terminal also have some black ?



That's as good as we can get with a basic multimeter unless we set up a test circuit.
IMO - and its just my opinion - is that there nothing to indicate a poor connection if the studs aren't loose and the meter shows zero.
Click to expand...
No. The ring terminal was fine. It was as if a wire touched there or something, at some point
 
dads71 said:
Thanks so much for all of the help! Noel came by today and helped me get the dash out (amazing of him!). Here are some updates with pics:

Took dash out- no visible burnt wires or connections- took a pic of amp wires as builder installed them. The fuel gauge cluster smells badly of burnt electronic smell

Joined the wire back together than my friend cut

Joined the 2 amp wires (black and red) together with a bolt and electrical tape….hooked battery up and it started instantly!! Runs like a champ!

The wire that my friend cut wasn’t contacting anything while it was cut

So I guess the question is why have I never been able to get power for any lights, gauges etc. Maybe bad amp module?

At this point I’m thinking of taking my gauge cluster in to have everything checked

Also, the ground from the steering column was just hanging there. Not hooked to anything

View attachment 1716268549

View attachment 1716268550

View attachment 1716268551

View attachment 1716268552

View attachment 1716268553
Click to expand...
Good to see that you are digging in brother. You will have a great bond with that car being it was your dad's, and you are making it right. Keep up the good work :thumbsup:
 
Mattax said:
There may be two seperate issues.

Reasons are this
1. That little black doesn't seem like the result of something that created noticible smoke. It looks something that sparked.
2. If the short to ground was there, or anywhere in the battery connected lines, it would have smoked when the battery was hooked up.
My understanding is the smoking and smell occured when the key was in run (or maybe start). That means the connection that smoked was downstream of the key switch. Something or some branch of the run or accessory circuit.

Possibilities:
One issue may have been no battery power getting through because the connection at the ammeter was loose (nut stripped or not tightened enoguh)

A second issue is something shorted or overheated (another loose connection) that still has to be found. But its most likely fed by the run circuit, possibly by the accessory circuit. Since the fuel gage smelled bad, probably worth looking at next.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. Definitely not the cause of the smoke. The gauge cluster with ammeter in it all smells really bad of electrical burning smell. I’m thinking fuel one might be bad. If that’s the case, just have to figure out what cause it, I guess
 
Mattax said:
There may be two seperate issues.

Reasons are this
1. That little black doesn't seem like the result of something that created noticible smoke. It looks something that sparked.
2. If the short to ground was there, or anywhere in the battery connected lines, it would have smoked when the battery was hooked up.
My understanding is the smoking and smell occured when the key was in run (or maybe start). That means the connection that smoked was downstream of the key switch. Something or some branch of the run or accessory circuit.

Possibilities:
One issue may have been no battery power getting through because the connection at the ammeter was loose (nut stripped or not tightened enoguh)

A second issue is something shorted or overheated (another loose connection) that still has to be found. But it’s most likely fed by the run circuit, possibly by the accessory circuit. Since the fuel gage smelled bad, probably worth looking at next.
Click to expand...
I’ll check again in the morning for a burnt wire etc. We looked pretty good today did didn’t see anything. A bad ground or a ground not hooked up couldn’t cause anything other than not working, could it? Not much was done right by the idiot builder. When we pulled the dash today he didn’t have much hooked up at all. Damaged vent cables, broken Speedo cable that wasn’t hooked up, radio not hooked up, no speaker, ground wires not hooked to anything. Crazy. He said that the dash and electrical was completely done. Lol
 
dads71 said:
No. The ring terminal was fine. It was as if a wire touched there or something, at some point
Click to expand...
H',m interesting.

A loose connection is my only guess right now since when you directly connected the battery wires the car started and ran.
Since we're not confident of the where the break was, it wouldn't hurt to gently tug and push on the wires at the bulkhead connected to see the terminals aren't loose. The terminals have barbs on them sometimes they don't catch or hold.

1719539803743.png


1719539879479.png
 
dads71 said:
Thanks so much for all of the help! Noel came by today and helped me get the dash out (amazing of him!). Here are some updates with pics:

Took dash out- no visible burnt wires or connections- took a pic of amp wires as builder installed them. The fuel gauge cluster smells badly of burnt electronic smell

Joined the wire back together than my friend cut

Joined the 2 amp wires (black and red) together with a bolt and electrical tape….hooked battery up and it started instantly!! Runs like a champ!

The wire that my friend cut wasn’t contacting anything while it was cut

So I guess the question is why have I never been able to get power for any lights, gauges etc. Maybe bad amp module?

At this point I’m thinking of taking my gauge cluster in to have everything checked

Also, the ground from the steering column was just hanging there. Not hooked to anything

View attachment 1716268549

View attachment 1716268550

View attachment 1716268551

View attachment 1716268552

View attachment 1716268553
Click to expand...
If this were mine and I was bypassing the ammeter, I would not simply attach the 2 wires together and have them "hanging in space." Instead, I would bolt both wires to 1 terminal of the ammeter posts and call it good. This way, you know the wires are firmly anchored together in a fixed position and will not someday have the insulating tape fall off and accidentally touch something since that would be a dead short. Perhaps Mr @Mattax may have an opinion on that as well.

Well done so far with all of your testing and debugging and buffing, etc, etc. You have a great looking car to be proud of!
 
Mattax said:
H',m interesting.

A loose connection is my only guess right now since when you directly connected the battery wires the car started and ran.
Since we're not confident of the where the break was, it wouldn't hurt to gently tug and push on the wires at the bulkhead connected to see the terminals aren't loose. The terminals have barbs on them sometimes they don't catch or hold.

View attachment 1716268602

View attachment 1716268603
Click to expand...
Cool. I’ll do that first thing tomorrow!
 
Demonx2 said:
If this were mine and I was bypassing the ammeter, I would not simply attach the 2 wires together and have them "hanging in space." Instead, I would bolt both wires to 1 terminal of the ammeter posts and call it good. This way, you know the wires are firmly anchored together in a fixed position and will not someday have the insulating tape fall off and accidentally touch something since that would be a dead short. Perhaps Mr @Mattax may have an opinion on that as well.

Well done so far with all of your testing and debugging and buffing, etc, etc. You have a great looking car to be proud of!
Click to expand...
Thanks. I agree 100%. I would never leave it that way. To be honest I’m still not sure why or if I should permanently bipass it anyway. I still need to get power to the rest of the car. Have to come up with the final plan once things are sorted out. Thanks you! So excited to drive it for the first time
 
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